1062 réponses à ce sujet

[Raven4030]

KevShep wrote...

You should clarify your problem with my statements instead of being rude, I doubt you would actuall do that to some ones face in the first place especially if that person was not being rude themselves.

If I'm arguing that boarding a fast moving, hostile surface ship with a helicopter is difficult because because all the ship in question has to do is turn right and a 3 million dollar military aircraft becomes coral, and the person I'm debating with says "Well we just use crappy old 100,000 dollar helicopters!" I would just assume that person is too retarded to be worth my time and walk away, which is something I'm going to do after I post this. I humbly suggest you stop posting and come back when you finish middle school.

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...


I'm going to quickly point out that you're now revising your original strategy, which seems now to pull an Arrival instead of merely swarming the Reapers, please keep your story staight.

And again, you're missing the point, or perhaps I'm not making myself clear; Once an enemy jumps FTL, you can't touch them, they're gone, poof. How else can you explain how The Normandy was able to escape, mere seconds before detonation? The Codex page itself also says that at least a dozen lightyears can be traversed in about a day. Reapers possess the most sophisticated tech in the known galaxy, which means their FTL speeds are more than likely a hell of a lot faster than normal, considering the fact that they were able to make it to Earth in about two and a half years, assuming they left for Earth at the end of ME1.

You're blatantly skewing fact with your own opinion now; Reapers have been around for like, a billion years (Assuming the Leviathan of Dis is one of them.) I think they've figured out a way to deal with a gaggle of little fighters. Your stratagey also throws even more pilots to their deaths, good idea. That, and your argument still does nothing to lay to rest that Sovereign STILL withstood the Citadel Fleet, which includes the Destiny Ascension. And its giant ass main gun.

And the trap is presumably for the sake of making things easier for them; powerful as they are, it must be tedious to do it the long way when there's a sure fire alternative to making things faster. Its not thay odd. Their power has been witnessed, discussed, and pretty much officially confirmed.

Iam talking about two different strategys. Such as if you do something like in arrivl then there is no way to escape the explosion through FTL.

Now about the boarding of a reaper, I guess they can go through FTL to escape the shuttles but we do not know how many times they can do this before having to recharge/rest.

The Leviathan of Dis is just an easter egg from KOTOR. Its the name of admial Sual's flag ship that was a "living star ship" and feed off of dark side energy.

I know that there is holes in my plan beause not evey much is known about them at this point but given all the other strategys out there this one seems to me to be the best one as far as facing them face to face without a kill all reapers button or virus. If not then what do you suggest?  

[KevShep]

Raven4030 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

You should clarify your problem with my statements instead of being rude, I doubt you would actuall do that to some ones face in the first place especially if that person was not being rude themselves.

If I'm arguing that boarding a fast moving, hostile surface ship with a helicopter is difficult because because all the ship in question has to do is turn right and a 3 million dollar military aircraft becomes coral, and the person I'm debating with says "Well we just use crappy old 100,000 dollar helicopters!" I would just assume that person is too retarded to be worth my time and walk away, which is something I'm going to do after I post this. I humbly suggest you stop posting and come back when you finish middle school.

Iam sorry you got your feelings hurt. Ive never met some one that is "humbly rude" to some oneIf you dont what to talk to all kinds of people then you should not be in these fourms. Iam and I deal with people like you all the time but Iam still here!

Your missing the point also. Iam saying that you need to find the most cost efficient and effective way to stop them. Yes its not going to be easy and yes its going to lose a lot of people as will ALL other plans as well. This is the best I can think of that does not require large fleets of ships. I never said that my plan is a god send plan, but it has the potental to work.

If your still here then what do you suggest? Since I stated my opinion on what to do to the reapers what is yours by the way? Its easy to bash some ones opinion if you dont share yours.

Modifié par KevShep, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:02 .

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...


I'm going to quickly point out that you're now revising your original strategy, which seems now to pull an Arrival instead of merely swarming the Reapers, please keep your story staight.

And again, you're missing the point, or perhaps I'm not making myself clear; Once an enemy jumps FTL, you can't touch them, they're gone, poof. How else can you explain how The Normandy was able to escape, mere seconds before detonation? The Codex page itself also says that at least a dozen lightyears can be traversed in about a day. Reapers possess the most sophisticated tech in the known galaxy, which means their FTL speeds are more than likely a hell of a lot faster than normal, considering the fact that they were able to make it to Earth in about two and a half years, assuming they left for Earth at the end of ME1.

You're blatantly skewing fact with your own opinion now; Reapers have been around for like, a billion years (Assuming the Leviathan of Dis is one of them.) I think they've figured out a way to deal with a gaggle of little fighters. Your stratagey also throws even more pilots to their deaths, good idea. That, and your argument still does nothing to lay to rest that Sovereign STILL withstood the Citadel Fleet, which includes the Destiny Ascension. And its giant ass main gun.

And the trap is presumably for the sake of making things easier for them; powerful as they are, it must be tedious to do it the long way when there's a sure fire alternative to making things faster. Its not thay odd. Their power has been witnessed, discussed, and pretty much officially confirmed.

Iam talking about two different strategys. Such as if you do something like in arrivl then there is no way to escape the explosion through FTL.

Now about the boarding of a reaper, I guess they can go through FTL to escape the shuttles but we do not know how many times they can do this before having to recharge/rest.

The Leviathan of Dis is just an easter egg from KOTOR. Its the name of admial Sual's flag ship that was a "living star ship" and feed off of dark side energy.

I know that there is holes in my plan beause not evey much is known about them at this point but given all the other strategys out there this one seems to me to be the best one as far as facing them face to face without a kill all reapers button or virus. If not then what do you suggest?  

Yes. NOW you are, which was why I said anything, but thats a "Whatever" at this point.

They can FTL once and it would be enough. How many times do you actually think we'll encounter them at a strength that would make them want to escape? Once alone would severely cripple us. Especially with we went with your crackpot idea of throwing hordes of "smaller" ships at them. I'm still scratching my head at that one.

And where the flying **** did you hear that? One; Saul Karath's ship was NOT a "living ship" nor was it EVER described as such. It was a humble destroyer class vessel that served in the Mandalorian Wars. Two; The only thing that remotely matches your description is the Star Forge, which was obviously not Saul's ship. Three; I'm a KOTOR fan too, don't feed me garbage and expect me to look the other way. No wonder Raven's so irritated with you.

And four; If anything, the "Leviathan of Dis" is a homage to the Farscape series, which had enormous ships called "Leviathans" that were biomechanical.

The Arrival stunt does have merit, but a more RATIONAL approach would be to simply rig sufficient explosives to a relay where there are colonized planets (Which are obviously going to be the Reaper's targets.), wait for the Reapers to enter the system (We can tell when they are because relays charge up before the users exit FTL.) set the explosives, jump out of the system and BOOM. Fried Reapers.

Problem with this plan; can you really sacrifice occupied system after occupied system just to nab a few Reapers? You think the planets are coing to agree?

Modifié par BentOrgy, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:55 .

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...


Yes. NOW you are, which was why I said anything, but thats a "Whatever" at this point.

They can FTL once and it would be enough. How many times do you actually think we'll encounter them at a strength that would make them want to escape? Once alone would severely cripple us. Especially with we went with your crackpot idea of throwing hordes of "smaller" ships at them. I'm still scratching my head at that one.

And where the flying **** did you hear that? One; Saul Karath's ship was NOT a "living ship" nor was it EVER described as such. It was a humble destroyer class vessel that served in the Mandalorian Wars. Two; The only thing that remotely matches your description is the Star Forge, which was obviously not Saul's ship. Three; I'm a KOTOR fan too, don't feed me garbage and expect me to look the other way. No wonder Raven's so irritated with you.

And four; If anything, the "Leviathan of Dis" is a homage to the Farscape series, which had enormous ships called "Leviathans" that were biomechanical.

The Arrival stunt does have merit, but a more RATIONAL approach would be to simply rig sufficient explosives to a relay where there are colonized planets (Which are obviously going to be the Reaper's targets.), wait for the Reapers to enter the system (We can tell when they are because relays charge up before the users exit FTL.) set the explosives, jump out of the system and BOOM. Fried Reapers.

Problem with this plan; can you really sacrifice occupied system after occupied system just to nab a few Reapers? You think the planets are coing to agree?

 First off dont assume that I made that comment on purpose to try and trick you because I didnt. My apologies I got my facts turned around with the leviathan. I looked it up on wiki.  The ship did come from the star forge yes and it was a living thing and I assumed that the ship was to because I heard that the leviathan was a living bio enginered ship( which is what it says in Mass Effect 1). But what I didnt know(because I jumped to conclutions) is that the bio leviathan is also in star wars but its is refering to a creature in the same series. I just asumed that the Bio enginered living creature called leviathan was the same thing as the ship because it too is from star wars and i did not know that untill I looked it up. BTW raven is a jurk and he is mad for another reason. There is no excuse for a person on this fourm to be hatefull.....He can disagree but he did not have to be a d*ck about it. 

As too your first paragraph, You have to face them somehow. If we use big ships then yes we are going to get killed quickly. If we use smaller ships(really small) then we are going to get killed anyway but......we can last longer because we will be in bigger numbers and not even a reaper cant kill us all that quickly. Its like a person swating flys(asuming you kill the flys with each swat). Maybe that last one was a bad example. Anyway......we dont know what the energy resarves of the reapers are at this point, depending on what that is will be crucial to fighting them no matter the strategy.

realisticaly I do think its going to came down to useing the relays and having to sacrificing systems to take them down as bioware seems to suggest before the release of Arrvil. 

 

Modifié par KevShep, 26 juillet 2011 - 06:21 .

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...


Yes. NOW you are, which was why I said anything, but thats a "Whatever" at this point.

They can FTL once and it would be enough. How many times do you actually think we'll encounter them at a strength that would make them want to escape? Once alone would severely cripple us. Especially with we went with your crackpot idea of throwing hordes of "smaller" ships at them. I'm still scratching my head at that one.

And where the flying **** did you hear that? One; Saul Karath's ship was NOT a "living ship" nor was it EVER described as such. It was a humble destroyer class vessel that served in the Mandalorian Wars. Two; The only thing that remotely matches your description is the Star Forge, which was obviously not Saul's ship. Three; I'm a KOTOR fan too, don't feed me garbage and expect me to look the other way. No wonder Raven's so irritated with you.

And four; If anything, the "Leviathan of Dis" is a homage to the Farscape series, which had enormous ships called "Leviathans" that were biomechanical.

The Arrival stunt does have merit, but a more RATIONAL approach would be to simply rig sufficient explosives to a relay where there are colonized planets (Which are obviously going to be the Reaper's targets.), wait for the Reapers to enter the system (We can tell when they are because relays charge up before the users exit FTL.) set the explosives, jump out of the system and BOOM. Fried Reapers.

Problem with this plan; can you really sacrifice occupied system after occupied system just to nab a few Reapers? You think the planets are coing to agree?

 First off dont assume that I made that comment on purpose to try and trick you because I didnt. My apologies I got my facts turned around with the leviathan. I looked it up on wiki.  The ship did come from the star forge yes and it was a living thing and I assumed that the ship was to because I heard that the leviathan was a living bio enginered ship( which is what it says in Mass Effect 1). But what I didnt know(because I jumped to conclutions) is that the bio leviathan is also in star wars but its is refering to a creature in the same series. I just asumed that the Bio enginered living creature called leviathan was the same thing as the ship because it too is from star wars and i did not know that untill I looked it up. BTW raven is a jurk and he is mad for another reason. There is no excuse for a person on this fourm to be hatefull.....He can disagree but he did not have to be a d*ck about it. 

As too your first paragraph, You have to face them somehow. If we use big ships then yes we are going to get killed quickly. If we use smaller ships(really small) then we are going to get killed anyway but......we can last longer because we will be in bigger numbers and not even a reaper cant kill us all that quickly. Its like a person swating flys(asuming you kill the flys with each swat). Maybe that last one was a bad example. Anyway......we dont know what the energy resarves of the reapers are at this point, depending on what that is will be crucial to fighting them no matter the strategy.

realisticaly I do think its going to came down to useing the relays and having to sacrificing systems to take them down as bioware seems to suggest before the release of Arrvil. 

 

So you're a fan of posting false information as fact because of a misunderstanding eh? I'll rememeber that. <_<

And I've read Raven's post on this matter, and he seems flustered for the same reasons I am; your apparant lack of understanding regarding tactics, warefare, economy, probability, time, and in-game lore.

The Leviathan species in question may have been bioengineered, but its not biomechanical, big difference. That, and its not even in the same timeline as KOTOR, further confusing me on how you could have actually confused the two. But agai, this is a moot point.

And no we don't. Facing them in open combat is suicidal, givin the amount of information and rescources we have at this point in ME2. Your whole "Fly swatting" analysis is still, well..... Ridiculous. Big ship, little ship, one ship two ship red ship blue ship, it doesn't matter. The same amount of people are going to be obliterated; you might as well make several Normandy class ships and pray they work, but even then, not even the Normandy did much against Sovereign, and even with the Thanix Cannons, how many Normandys do you think we could build in the amount of time we have in ME3? None! The Reapers are already here.

Better to not throw any more ships to their death, and simply blow the Relays to hell remotely, hopefully taking the Reapers with them.

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

So you're a fan of posting false information as fact because of a misunderstanding eh? I'll rememeber that. <_<

And I've read Raven's post on this matter, and he seems flustered for the same reasons I am; your apparant lack of understanding regarding tactics, warefare, economy, probability, time, and in-game lore.

The Leviathan species in question may have been bioengineered, but its not biomechanical, big difference. That, and its not even in the same timeline as KOTOR, further confusing me on how you could have actually confused the two. But agai, this is a moot point.

And no we don't. Facing them in open combat is suicidal, givin the amount of information and rescources we have at this point in ME2. Your whole "Fly swatting" analysis is still, well..... Ridiculous. Big ship, little ship, one ship two ship red ship blue ship, it doesn't matter. The same amount of people are going to be obliterated; you might as well make several Normandy class ships and pray they work, but even then, not even the Normandy did much against Sovereign, and even with the Thanix Cannons, how many Normandys do you think we could build in the amount of time we have in ME3? None! The Reapers are already here.

Better to not throw any more ships to their death, and simply blow the Relays to hell remotely, hopefully taking the Reapers with them.

I dont post false info on purpose...I made a mistake! Iam human! I did get the two confused Iam sorry I didnt do it on purpose! I looked it up when you called me out on it. The two had similarities that I got confused on when I heard malak talk about the star forge and then I saw what it said in ME1 (knowing that bioware mde the same game) I assumed that the ships also were alive in Kotor because i thought it was an easter egg in ME1. I also saw a while back in star wars wiki about the leviathan being bio enginered (which is stated in ME1 about the leviathan) however (looking it up) it was the wrong one....there were two leviathans in star wars.

Leviathan(creature, at the time did not know it was a creature)-bio engineered + Bioware's  living bio engineered star ship(which sounded like an easter egg cause kotor is there game as well) + Malak saying star forge was a living thing  = Bio engineered living star ship from kotor's star forge...the leviathan.  Thats where I got that from.

What Iam trying to tell him and you is that the reason for my plan IS centered around warfare, economy, probability, time and game lore (as far as we know at least) Let me brake it down.........
1.Economy- big ships cost more and are BIG targets for the reapers. Small ships are harder to target(and if one gets hit then there are hundreds more it has to target). Also they cost less and are more effecient!
2.Warfare-As stated above. They wont wast money on big ships that become useless against the reapers. IF...you have to fight them face to face then it would be better to use smaller ones.
3.probability-All chances are small but if we use small ships to try to board or at least get on the exterior of the reaper we can stand a better chance at doing something to them. I know it would be stupid to try to get a bunch of thanix cannons in a short time but thats not what iam suggesting we do.  
4.tactics-We would have to view them (study them) first to see what we have to work with(as of now we dont really know). This may involve there energy resarves and if its even weakened at all from the 200 year delay in the invasion. They may not be able to hold there sheilds all the time(we dont know yet).Its common sense that if your going up aginst somthing that is stronger then you then one solution is to overwhelm them...how? thats something that is a work in progress....there reapers after all and we know very little about them.
5Mass Effect lore- Ive played mass effect long enough to know that ships never really kill each other in combat because they will just jump to FTL. However....you can track down where they go that is untill they reach a relay and in this case the reapers dont control them(assuming we figure out how to do that ourselves).
6.Time-building small ships in a low cost way we can build them faster then anything else. We can mass produce them.

The plan is up in the air I know but its better then trying to get a whole fleet of ship to fight them. If we do have to face them then we need another plan and thats where my thought process is."what other way could we go about this?"..."we need to study them first"

We can use the relays to kill them yes I know but what if that does not work. You need a back up plan. Iam not saying there going to use the strategy of mine in ME3 nor am I expecting it to happen but at least Iam thinking of ways to use what we have in order to stop them.
 
Mass Effect is a game that I love as you do. If you disagree with me then thats your opinion but you and Raven do not have to get personal with just a comment a fellow fan makes reguarding a game that we share. If I make a mistake in my post then tell me that Iam incorrect (which you did) and I acknowledged it. Dont make it personal like Raven did.

Modifié par KevShep, 26 juillet 2011 - 08:54 .

[Havoc10K]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seriously, it can't be done. Let me give you a run down of why we can't possibly hope to be victorious in this war.

Firstly, as the codex will tell you, in space-borne combat the combatants can flee at any time. If at any point one side feels it is losing the battle it can turn tale and run away. It can do this infinitely. This is especially true of the Reapers.

There is a key difference between us and the Reapers though. Any enemy we fight will, somewhere, have some sort of planet/moon/asteroid based assets to defend. Thus we can assault their planets to earn a victory if we must.

With the Reapers however this is not so. They have no planetary assets that they must defend. The Reapers are self sufficient, space-borne intelligences. It has been pointed out that they want the Earth and while this may be true, I guarantee you that they want their own continual survival even more than that. Assuming we successfully rally the galaxy to come and get their people killed to save our planet this offers no promise of victory against the Reapers. As soon as they realize the battle is turning against them (assuming that it does and that they don't just obliterate every fleet in the galaxy), the Reapers will flee.

They'll fly up, abandon the Earth, and disappear in to the vast Milky Way galaxy. Maybe some aliens will get smart and blow up the Charon relay, isolating the Reapers in our cluster. This might buy the galaxy some time, but they'll never have any hope of winning the war.

The thing is, the Reapers don't need to capture any planets besides Earth. All they have to do is drop in out of FTL near a planet and bombard all of its inhabitants into ash. They can do this again and again on every populated world in the galaxy until none remain.

Whether it takes decades or centuries in time every race in the galaxy will be exterminated and any human survivors will be cultivated into a new Reaper.

The only remote possibility of victory is if we wait until all of the Reapers are busy harvesting Earth and then blow up the Charon relay. Theoreticaly the shockwave would overtake the Earth and destroy all of the Reapers before they could flee. After all, it is safe to assume that shockwave is travelling at the speed of light, or near it, or even faster than that. There is no way to avoid it unless you know ahead of time that it is coming. The Reapers could do this. If they have quantum entaglement devices installed in the relays (or at least in the Charon relay) they would know immediately that it had been destroyed and may be able to flee to avoid the shockwave. This is quite likely considering how trivial and widespread quantum entaglement technology is for the Reapers. The Collectors and Saren were riddled with it and the implants 'given' to Paul Grayson were linked to the Reapers in this way.

Now, assuming this isn't necessary and Shepard discovers some miracle that can defeat the Reapers, it will still be a hollow victory in some respects. The inescapable fact is that we will ALL BE CONSUMED BY REAPER TECH ANYWAY! Their technology will not vanish, it will instead be laying around for everyone in the galaxy to scoop up and reverse engineer. Terrifying things like indoctrination and quantum-entaglement devices will proliferate throughout the galaxy. One way or another, we will all become Reapers.

Reapers are like the Elves, they have a **** ton of pride in themselves and are stupidly arrogant about their might, they cannot flee, they can be taken out individually because they will underestimate Humanity's stubborn survival instincts, we have the advantage over reapers because they will attack individual sectors, one by one, and every single reaper will do it alone, it's their weakness actually, also, we have Tali Zorah, we have no need to fear any sentient machinery

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

So you're a fan of posting false information as fact because of a misunderstanding eh? I'll rememeber that. <_<

And I've read Raven's post on this matter, and he seems flustered for the same reasons I am; your apparant lack of understanding regarding tactics, warefare, economy, probability, time, and in-game lore.

The Leviathan species in question may have been bioengineered, but its not biomechanical, big difference. That, and its not even in the same timeline as KOTOR, further confusing me on how you could have actually confused the two. But agai, this is a moot point.

And no we don't. Facing them in open combat is suicidal, givin the amount of information and rescources we have at this point in ME2. Your whole "Fly swatting" analysis is still, well..... Ridiculous. Big ship, little ship, one ship two ship red ship blue ship, it doesn't matter. The same amount of people are going to be obliterated; you might as well make several Normandy class ships and pray they work, but even then, not even the Normandy did much against Sovereign, and even with the Thanix Cannons, how many Normandys do you think we could build in the amount of time we have in ME3? None! The Reapers are already here.

Better to not throw any more ships to their death, and simply blow the Relays to hell remotely, hopefully taking the Reapers with them.

I dont post false info on purpose...I made a mistake! Iam human! I did get the two confused Iam sorry I didnt do it on purpose! I looked it up when you called me out on it. The two had similarities that I got confused on when I heard malak talk about the star forge and then I saw what it said in ME1 (knowing that bioware mde the same game) I assumed that the ships also were alive in Kotor because i thought it was an easter egg in ME1. I also saw a while back in star wars wiki about the leviathan being bio enginered (which is stated in ME1 about the leviathan) however (looking it up) it was the wrong one....there were two leviathans in star wars.

Leviathan(creature)-bio engineered + Bioware's  living bio engineered star ship+ Malak saying star forge was a living thing  = Bio engineered living star ship from kotor's star forge...the leviathan.  Thats where I got that from.

What Iam trying to tell him and you is that the reason for my plan IS centered around warfare, economy, probability, time and game lore (as far as we know at least) Let me brake it down.........
1.Economy- big ships cost more and are BIG targets for the reapers. Small ships are harder to target(and if one gets hit then there are hundreds more it has to target). Also they cost less and are more effecient!
2.Warfare-As stated above. They wont wast money on big ships that become useless against the reapers. IF...you have to fight them face to face then it would be better to use smaller ones.
3.probability-All chances are small but if we use small ships to try to board or at least get on the exterior of the reaper we can stand a better chance at doing something to them. I know it would be stupid to try to get a bunch of thanix cannons in a short time but thats not what iam suggesting we do.  
4.tactics-We would have to view them (study them) first to see what we have to work with(as of now we dont really know). This may involve there energy resarves and if its even weakened at all from the 200 year delay in the invasion. They may not be able to hold there sheilds all the time(we dont know yet).Its common sense that if your going up aginst somthing that is stronger then you then one solution is to overwhelm them...how? thats something that is a work in progress....there reapers after all and we know very little about them.
5Mass Effect lore- Ive played mass effect long enough to know that ships never really kill each other in combat because they will just jump to FTL. However....you can track down where they go that is untill they reach a relay and in this case the reapers dont control them(assuming we figure out how to do that ourselves).
6.Time-building small ships in a low cost way we can build them faster then anything else. We can mass produce them.

The plan is up in the air I know but its better then trying to get a whole fleet of ship to fight them. If we do have to face them then we need another plan and thats where my thought process is."what other way could we go about this?"..."we need to study them first"

We can use the relays to kill them yes I know but what if that does not work. You need a back up plan. Iam not saying there going to use the strategy of mine in ME3 nor am I expecting it to happen but at least Iam thinking of ways to use what we have in order to stop them.
 
Mass Effect is a game that I love as you do. If you disagree with me then thats your opinion but you and Raven do not have to get personal with just a comment a fellow fan makes reguarding a game that we share. If I make a mistake in my post then tell me that Iam incorrect (which you did) and I acknowledged it. Dont make it personal like Raven did.

Small ships generally mean less offensive/defensive power, which in turn means kablooey, space dust. The amount of time to otherwise prepare these small ships to be more usefull would require TIME, which we don't have, and the cooperation of ALL the races involved, which will take even more of the TIME we don't possess. Which means NO, they're not "More efficient."

The reapers are systematically taking out every planet with spacefaring life, and its keen to believe that they will disable Home Worlds first, thereby crippling galactic communication, and forcing us all into the dark. This is something you need to, and I hope to God Bioware has, take into consideration; once entire hub worlds star getting obliterated, everybody is going to be out for themselves, trying to protect their own interests. Communication will be shot, and what will be left will be the council trying to deal with the dozens of allied worlds screaming for help. War is not like battle, where you simply rally troops and fire at the enemy, there's FAR more involved; politics, civilians, orginization, etc.

You suggest we study them? How? You gonna waltz up to one and say, "Hey, can I take a peek?" Of course not, you're gonna get yourself and everyone else killed. Just like you with your little fighters. There's no sense in tryin to directly engage something that you have no understanding of, no time to study, and no way of damaging.

So again, fighters, dreadnoughts, cruisers, frigets etc, are all going to get the same result; death. Theirs, not the reapers. Better to seal them in a system, then detonating somehting large enough (The Relay) to blast them all back to hell.

Thinking of alternative ways to fight is admirable, but when those alternatives are met with a resounding "That won't work, and here's why!" just drop it.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 26 juillet 2011 - 08:56 .

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

Small ships generally mean less offensive/defensive power, which in turn means kablooey, space dust. The amount of time to otherwise prepare these small ships to be more usefull would require TIME, which we don't have, and the cooperation of ALL the races involved, which will take even more of the TIME we don't possess. Which means NO, they're not "More efficient."

The reapers are systematically taking out every planet with spacefaring life, and its keen to believe that they will disable Home Worlds first, thereby crippling galactic communication, and forcing us all into the dark. This is something you need to, and I hope to God Bioware has, take into consideration; once entire hub worlds star getting obliterated, everybody is going to be out for themselves, trying to protect their own interests. Communication will be shot, and what will be left will be the council trying to deal with the dozens of allied worlds screaming for help. War is not like battle, where you simply rally troops and fire at the enemy, there's FAR more involved; politics, civilians, orginization, etc.

You suggest we study them? How? You gonna waltz up to one and say, "Hey, can I take a peek?" Of course not, you're gonna get yourself and everyone else killed. Just like you with your little fighters. There's no sense in tryin to directly engage something that you have no understanding of, no time to study, and no way of damaging.

So again, fighters, dreadnoughts, cruisers, frigets etc, are all going to get the same result; death. Theirs, not the reapers. Better to seal them in a system, then detonating somehting large enough (The Relay) to blast them all back to hell.

Thinking of alternative ways to fight is admirable, but when those alternatives are met with a resounding "That won't work, and here's why!" just drop it.

You make good points about time that Iam also aware of. They dont have to have offensive or defensive because that would be a waste of time and money. There real purpose is to land/attach to the reaper(if possible). I also ment that there more efficient then BIG ships. I was not implying that its the most efficient way to stop the reapers.

Iam also aware of strategy (Iam into strategy games/history) in the fact that they do need to take down there home planets (like in the earth demo). During the invasions the reapers would cut off the relays to sever each system to itself. Iam aware of politics and other alien factions and the difference between battle and war. This entier war with the reapers in not going to be an easy one(at least I hope its not easy)....Iam 28 years old this stuff is not new to me.  I love strategy as much as I love RPG's or I should say WRPG's. No matter what we do its not going to be easy no matter the plan or strategy.

As far as studying them goes, how would you study a race you know almost nothing about? You have to watch them in action. Through common sense no comander or general would blindy go into battle before they knew there enemy.The ones that did....died or got there people killed! No matter what we do against the reapers we will have to step back for a bit and study(watch) them anyway. 

I do agree with you about the blow up the relays plan though.

btw I was never riding on this plan to be the main plan against the reapers, its just a possible back up one in case we cant think of another plan." We need a plan to stop them". "We fight or we die"-Shepard.

I guess we should just go with Shepards plan and just wing it!
If shepard beats the reapers it will be by luck alone at the rate hes going. This scares me about ME3....I dont want my shepard to beat them that way.

Modifié par KevShep, 26 juillet 2011 - 11:09 .

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Small ships generally mean less offensive/defensive power, which in turn means kablooey, space dust. The amount of time to otherwise prepare these small ships to be more usefull would require TIME, which we don't have, and the cooperation of ALL the races involved, which will take even more of the TIME we don't possess. Which means NO, they're not "More efficient."

The reapers are systematically taking out every planet with spacefaring life, and its keen to believe that they will disable Home Worlds first, thereby crippling galactic communication, and forcing us all into the dark. This is something you need to, and I hope to God Bioware has, take into consideration; once entire hub worlds star getting obliterated, everybody is going to be out for themselves, trying to protect their own interests. Communication will be shot, and what will be left will be the council trying to deal with the dozens of allied worlds screaming for help. War is not like battle, where you simply rally troops and fire at the enemy, there's FAR more involved; politics, civilians, orginization, etc.

You suggest we study them? How? You gonna waltz up to one and say, "Hey, can I take a peek?" Of course not, you're gonna get yourself and everyone else killed. Just like you with your little fighters. There's no sense in tryin to directly engage something that you have no understanding of, no time to study, and no way of damaging.

So again, fighters, dreadnoughts, cruisers, frigets etc, are all going to get the same result; death. Theirs, not the reapers. Better to seal them in a system, then detonating somehting large enough (The Relay) to blast them all back to hell.

Thinking of alternative ways to fight is admirable, but when those alternatives are met with a resounding "That won't work, and here's why!" just drop it.

You make good points about time that Iam also aware of. They dont have to have offensive or defensive because that would be a waste of time and money. There real purpose is to land/attach to the reaper(if possible). I also ment that there more efficient then BIG ships. I was not implying that its the most efficient way to stop the reapers.

Iam also aware of strategy (Iam into strategy games/history) in the fact that they do need to take down there home planets (like in the earth demo). During the invasions the reapers would cut off the relays to sever each system to itself. Iam aware of politics and other alien factions and the difference between battle and war. This entier war with the reapers in not going to be an easy one(at least I hope its not easy)....Iam 28 years old this stuff is not new to me.  I love strategy as much as I love RPG's or I should say WRPG's. No matter what we do its not going to be easy no matter the plan or strategy.

As far as studying them goes, how would you study a race you know almost nothing about? You have to watch them in action. Through common sense no comander or general would blindy go into battle before they knew there enemy.The ones that did....died or got there people killed! No matter what we do against the reapers we will have to step back for a bit and study(watch) them anyway. 

I do agree with you about the blow up the relays plan though.

btw I was never riding on this plan to be the main plan against the reapers, its just a possible back up one in case we cant think of another plan." We need a plan to stop them". "We fight or we die"-Shepard.

I guess we should just go with Shepards plan and just wing it!
If shepard beats the reapers it will be by luck alone at the rate hes going. This scares me about ME3....I dont want my shepard to beat them that way.

Land on Reapers to fire what? Nukes or an EMP right? You honestly think Reaper interiors are going to be unguarded? That's supposing that you can even get there in the first place. Not every team will have a Shepard, who can win against all odds. In acuality, very, very, VERY few will.

And if this stuff is not new to you, tell me why we have been arguing for this long? Tell me why your "Strategies" have seemed to disregard all these things I have pointed out until now, things you supposedly "Know." And please tell me why you're all of a sudden so quick to say "Yeah, you're probably right; this won't work." Your tactics have had little in the way of practical/real world application, and have only begun to resemble feasible since I arrived. I'd love to hear what "Strategy" games you've apprantly played. I can only surmise from all this, is that by saying you already knew, and throwing your age around, you are trying to lend to the idea that you actually DO know what you're talking about.

Step back and watch, uh huh. Let me spell it out for you; you watch, you die. That's what I meant by studying them being fairly ridiculous. Of course you observe the enemy, but not when they're pounding the hell out of you, which by they, is exactly what they're doing. There's no real time to study, and by the time you gathered sufficient intel, odds are everyone you wanted to protect is dead.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 26 juillet 2011 - 11:47 .

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

Land on Reapers to fire what? Nukes or an EMP right? You honestly think Reaper interiors are going to be unguarded? That's supposing that you can even get there in the first place. Not every team will have a Shepard, who can win against all odds. In acuality, very, very, VERY few will.

And if this stuff is not new to you, tell me why we have been arguing for this long? Tell me why your "Strategies" have seemed to disregard all these things I have pointed out until now, things you supposedly "Know." And please tell me why you're all of a sudden so quick to say "Yeah, you're probably right; this won't work." Your tactics have had little in the way of practical/real world application, and have only begun to resemble feasible since I arrived. I'd love to hear what "Strategy" games you've apprantly played. I can only surmise from all this, is that by saying you already knew, and throwing your age around, you are trying to lend to the idea that you actually DO know what you're talking about.

Step back and watch, uh huh. Let me spell it out for you; you watch, you die. That's what I meant by studying them being fairly ridiculous. Of course you observe the enemy, but not when they're pounding the hell out of you, which by they, is exactly what they're doing. There's no real time to study, and by the time you gathered sufficient intel, odds are everyone you wanted to protect is dead.

Ive been hear because I support my opinion. I have not disreguarded the things you point out it just that I keep saying them over and over. You say that I "supposedly" know things....the fact that your assuming things about me and my intellect is the problem here. When you say..... "your all of a sudden so quick to say yeah your right"...you assuming again. I was really direct with my comments in the begining and that probably is the reason you guys had to assume that I knew nothing about anything at all in mass effect or in real life. As the topic went on I started repeating myself in a non-direct way in order to get the point acrossed because the things you guys were saying were common sense stuff. Iam letting you know that I do understand and that Iam not just supporting this for no reason. The reason I gave my age is because the way your assuming you think Iam 2 years old. I am trying to tell you that i know where your coming from (in order to get my statment clear). I said things like " you make good points about the time that Iam also aware of"(stated in last post) because Iam letting you know that I have givin that thought a long time ago....its part of the reason I came up with the plan ,It was baised off of lack of time to build big ships...... not because you made it aware to me.

The strategy games that i play are mostly Total War(the one that I love) games, I also play Company of Heros form time to time. I did play other like star craft,c&c(none of the newer ones) and games like homeworld but not anymore.

Your last post is a good example of the problem that we are having. listen to this carefully. Your right we could die if you sit and watch them. If you dont then you will die anyway because you have not observed them so you dont know how to stop them at all. We have to take risks in order to get anywere. Just because we watch them dose not mean that we are going to die automaticlly. Such as shepard leaving earth...he survives going through a whole fleet of them. If you dont observe them then the people are dead anyway. Rushing in without that intel is even worse.

BTW Ive always thought that bioware would use the relays to kill the reapers...they said that arrivl would give us a hint as to how ME3 will play out. I think that my plan is sound (yes your right its not a god send plan, never said it was) at least it is better then throwing big ships(less quantitiy) to there death with no success at all. With small ships in larger quantities might be a more of a harder time for the reapers.   

Iam not trying to be mean to you, I dont do that to people even in the fourms.  Iam just trying to make things clear.

It will be hard to do my plan...we both know that. alot of thing would have to happen as well, that we both know too. As i have said its better then useing big capital ships that cant maneuver well vs small ones that are smaller targets. If we have to fight them there is not much room for anything else.----big vs small....expensive vs cheap...long production time vs short time..... Having a plan vs not having one.

Modifié par KevShep, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:27 .

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Land on Reapers to fire what? Nukes or an EMP right? You honestly think Reaper interiors are going to be unguarded? That's supposing that you can even get there in the first place. Not every team will have a Shepard, who can win against all odds. In acuality, very, very, VERY few will.

And if this stuff is not new to you, tell me why we have been arguing for this long? Tell me why your "Strategies" have seemed to disregard all these things I have pointed out until now, things you supposedly "Know." And please tell me why you're all of a sudden so quick to say "Yeah, you're probably right; this won't work." Your tactics have had little in the way of practical/real world application, and have only begun to resemble feasible since I arrived. I'd love to hear what "Strategy" games you've apprantly played. I can only surmise from all this, is that by saying you already knew, and throwing your age around, you are trying to lend to the idea that you actually DO know what you're talking about.

Step back and watch, uh huh. Let me spell it out for you; you watch, you die. That's what I meant by studying them being fairly ridiculous. Of course you observe the enemy, but not when they're pounding the hell out of you, which by they, is exactly what they're doing. There's no real time to study, and by the time you gathered sufficient intel, odds are everyone you wanted to protect is dead.

Ive been hear because I support my opinion. I have not disreguarded the things you point out it just that I keep saying them over and over. You say that I "supposedly" know things....the fact that your assuming things about me and my intellect is the problem here. When you say..... "your all of a sudden so quick to say yeah your right"...you assuming again. I was really direct with my comments in the begining and that probably is the reason you guys had to assume that I knew nothing about anything at all in mass effect or in real life. As the topic went on I started repeating myself in a non-direct way in order to get the point acrossed because the things you guys were saying were common sense stuff. Iam letting you know that I do understand and that Iam not just supporting this for no reason. The reason I gave my age is because the way your assuming you think Iam 2 years old. I am trying to tell you that i know where your coming from (in order to get my statment clear). I said things like " you make good points about the time that Iam also aware of"(stated in last post) because Iam letting you know that I have givin that thought a long time ago....its part of the reason I came up with the plan ,It was baised off of lack of time to build big ships...... not because you made it aware to me.

The strategy games that i play are mostly Total War(the one that I love) games, I also play Company of Heros form time to time. I did play other like star craft,c&c(none of the newer ones) and games like homeworld but not anymore.

Your last post is a good example of the problem that we are having. listen to this carefully. Your right we could die if you sit and watch them. If you dont then you will die anyway because you have not observed them so you dont know how to stop them at all. We have to take risks in order to get anywere. Just because we watch them dose not mean that we are going to die automaticlly. Such as shepard leaving earth...he survives going through a whole fleet of them. If you dont observe them then the people are dead anyway. Rushing in without that intel is even worse.

BTW Ive always thought that bioware would use the relays to kill the reapers...they said that arrivl would give us a hint as to how ME3 will play out.
Iam not trying to be mean to you, I dont do that to people even in the fourms.  Iam just trying to make things clear.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm reacting to the things you've been spouting in your posts. Things like, one; you still actually think small fighters can outmatch an enemy that has already shown that it doesn't give a damn about the size, temperment or armament of its opponents, simply by being more manueverable. Two; you quite blatantly have failed to support your theories with acutal fact, and instead thrust theories and subjective opinions in our faces. Three; even after being told, on numerous occasions why your tactics fail to work, you repeat them over and over regardless. And Four; you say that you've thought of these afformentioned reasons why your ideas won't work before, but still grasp at them anyway, which demonstrates a level of illogical I hoped to avoid.

I have clearly given a tactic that sacrifices no crewmembers. (The remote detonation of target relays the Reapers are likely to use.) So I've never ONCE advocated "rushing" in anywhere blindly. Ironically it is YOU , with your "Swarm" theory that you keep raving about, that would get more people killed.

Observing the reapers is also ridiculous; we already know HOW they do things, that's not the issue here.

[Archereon]

You know, the OP is right. In a realistic sci fi setting, the Reapers would be unstoppable. Then again, in a realistic sci fi setting, even allowing for the existence of ME FTL, the Reapers simply would've colonized every single planet in the galaxy to ensure no life can originate. Given 37 million years, it would be possible, easy even, to colonize the galaxy, even without FTL travel.

I imagine that, even if the Reapers had some inscrutable reason for not doing that, that they would be so technologically superior to the races of the galaxy, considering the 37 million years, that a single ship would be able to wipe out the entire amassed armada of the galaxy. If the Reapers are actually at the upper limit of technology in the ME verse, then I imagine they would be impossibly numerous, numbering in the billions if not trillions, making any hope of survival much less victory against them laughably idealistic.


Then again, Mass Effect is not a realistic sci fi setting. The Reapers are not as all powerful as they should be, and that's fine, because any realistic type III civilization would absolutely annihilate just about any sci fi setting in existence, provided they had FTL if they enemy did as well.

[Arcadia364]

Archereon wrote...

You know, the OP is right. In a realistic sci fi setting, the Reapers would be unstoppable. Then again, in a realistic sci fi setting, even allowing for the existence of ME FTL, the Reapers simply would've colonized every single planet in the galaxy to ensure no life can originate. Given 37 million years, it would be possible, easy even, to colonize the galaxy, even without FTL travel.

Uhh they need life to develop independently to harvest them for some yet unrevealed reason

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

I'm not assuming anything, I'm reacting to the things you've been spouting in your posts. Things like, one; you still actually think small fighters can outmatch an enemy that has already shown that it doesn't give a damn about the size, temperment or armament of its opponents, simply by being more manueverable. Two; you quite blatantly have failed to support your theories with acutal fact, and instead thrust theories and subjective opinions in our faces. Three; even after being told, on numerous occasions why your tactics fail to work, you repeat them over and over regardless. And Four; you say that you've thought of these afformentioned reasons why your ideas won't work before, but still grasp at them anyway, which demonstrates a level of illogical I hoped to avoid.

I have clearly given a tactic that sacrifices no crewmembers. (The remote detonation of target relays the Reapers are likely to use.) So I've never ONCE advocated "rushing" in anywhere blindly. Ironically it is YOU , with your "Swarm" theory that you keep raving about, that would get more people killed.

Observing the reapers is also ridiculous; we already know HOW they do things, that's not the issue here.

I never said that smaller ships can "outmatch" the reapers...I said that they would stand a better chance as a group against them. When you talking about combat small ships such as fighters and the like are actually better to use then big ships anyway no matter the enemy.  Capital ships are good for  delivering the final blow to an enemy once there shields are down. Smaller ships can harass an enemy "longer" without sustaining the casualties that bigger ships would take.You "dont" need big ships to take down other big ships. You have to remember that the reapers are not invisible gods. We know how the battle of the citadel truned out....This is what happens when bigger ships become useless in a fight. You...NEVER...ues your capital ships as you front force. Thats why they got obliterated. YOU  forget that it was not sovereigns sheilds that were good it was his weapons. You have to last long enough in oder to take down an enemies sheilds, and in this case sovereigns weapons were killing them faster then they could take down his sheilds. Sovereign took down the bigger ships with ease not to mention that he had a lot of help from the geth. Not once did I ever see the Destany ascension fire at the reaper(maybe because of the conucil on board trying to flee), I dont think that it ever used its main gun in the battle.

Space combat tactics usually go like this...smaller ships are front line because there harder to target and more manoverable and sustain less casualties then the bigger ships.There other purpose is to harass an enemy and take down an enemies sheilds or at least weaken them. Thats where the bigger ships come in. The fact that they sent in there capital ships in first to take out sovereign was the dumbest move they could have made, not to mention that they attacked at a bad angle by firing up at it...there were right in the line of sovereigns weapons.

This is why I cant understand why you dont get how smaller ships are used in space combat and why i keep repeating my self. I dont know if your aware of how things like fighters and smaller ships can be MORE affective then bigger ones. We also dont know anything about "there" tactics so we do have to watch them.....There is no way around this fact!
 
 You also can not use a remote detonation on the relays nor can you fire at it as stated in arrivl. you have to destroy it by a similar way as in the DLC.

Modifié par KevShep, 27 juillet 2011 - 12:32 .

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

I'm not assuming anything, I'm reacting to the things you've been spouting in your posts. Things like, one; you still actually think small fighters can outmatch an enemy that has already shown that it doesn't give a damn about the size, temperment or armament of its opponents, simply by being more manueverable. Two; you quite blatantly have failed to support your theories with acutal fact, and instead thrust theories and subjective opinions in our faces. Three; even after being told, on numerous occasions why your tactics fail to work, you repeat them over and over regardless. And Four; you say that you've thought of these afformentioned reasons why your ideas won't work before, but still grasp at them anyway, which demonstrates a level of illogical I hoped to avoid.

I have clearly given a tactic that sacrifices no crewmembers. (The remote detonation of target relays the Reapers are likely to use.) So I've never ONCE advocated "rushing" in anywhere blindly. Ironically it is YOU , with your "Swarm" theory that you keep raving about, that would get more people killed.

Observing the reapers is also ridiculous; we already know HOW they do things, that's not the issue here.

I never said that smaller ships can "outmatch" the reapers...I said that they would stand a better chance as a group against them. When you talking about combat small ships such as fighters and the like are actually better to use then big ships anyway no matter the enemy.  Capital ships are good for  delivering the final blow to an enemy once there shields are down. Smaller ships can harass an enemy "longer" without sustaining the casualties that bigger ships would take.You "dont" need big ships to take down other big ships. You have to remember that the reapers are not invisible gods. We know how the battle of the citadel truned out....This is what happens when bigger ships become useless in a fight. You...NEVER...ues your capital ships as you front force. Thats why they got obliterated. YOU  forget that it was not sovereigns sheilds that were good it was his weapons. You have to last long enough in oder to take down an enemies sheilds, and in this case sovereigns weapons were killing them faster then they could take down his sheilds. Sovereign took down the bigger ships with ease not to mention that he had a lot of help from the geth. Not once did I ever see the Destany ascension fire at the reaper(maybe because of the conucil on board trying to flee), I dont think that it ever used its main gun in the battle.

Space combat tactics usually go like this...smaller ships are front line because there harder to target and more manoverable and sustain less casualties then the bigger ships.There other purpose is to harass an enemy and take down an enemies sheilds or at least weaken them. Thats where the bigger ships come in. The fact that they sent in there capital ships in first to take out sovereign was the dumbest move they could have made, not to mention that they attacked at a bad angle by firing up at it...there were right in the line of sovereigns weapons.

This is why I cant understand why you dont get how smaller ships are used in space combat and why i keep repeating my self. I dont know if your aware of how things like fighters and smaller ships can be MORE affective then bigger ones. We also dont know anything about "there" tactics so we do have to watch them.....There is no way around this fact!
 
 You also can not use a remote detonation on the relays nor can you fire at it as stated in arrivl. you have to destroy it by a similar way as in the DLC.

...Are you out of your mind? Shields weren't a deciding factor? I guess thats why we couldn't even make him shudder, let alone do any damage right? Please, you went from being naive, to downright, to be blunt, stupid, in one post. And perhaps it didn't, you're correct that we never saw it happen, but considering you're evidently a fan of "What ifs" I doubt it would have done any damage it Sovvy anyway, and it would have been silly for the largest gun out there to not crack off one shot.

And I fully understand the merits of smaller units in combat. Never once did I say they were worthless, I said they were worthless against the REAPERS; as in the giant ass God-Machines from Dark Space that have survived for AT LEAST 37 million years. Not just the fighters, every vessel we command has been proven completely inneffective. And you want to throw away lives against hundreds, possibly thousands of these things? Thank God you're not in charge, I'd declare a mutiny in a heart beat.

And who the hell says we can't? This more "Fact" like that Leviathan malarkey? We were told from day one that the Relays were invincible, and were proven wrong there too. An asteroid is sufficient, so why not something of similar destructive power? And hell, even if we need to use asteroids, just shuffle some freaking mining satellites into the systems we need, then remotely chuck at said relay when the Reapers enter.

They might notice that, but they'll sure as hell notice all your pin ****** fighters too. Only difference, if my idea boild over, NO ONE DIED.

You repeat yourself like its accomplishing something, news flash; it isn't.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:04 .

[Raven4030]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants. This means
we won't be able to grow any edible food there. If the planet can't support life it certainly can't support industry and with that goes the human economy and along with it our military standing.

Lots of planets in the game can't support life but support industry just fine. Furthermore, the military might of the alliance is not fueled just by harvesting earth's resources, but by harvesting the resource wealth of dozens of worlds. The most probable effect of a mass extinction would be a mass exodus spanning up to a dozen years to a different world such as Eden Prime or Terra Nova.

Don't get me wrong, humanity would be greatly weakened with military efforts focused on transporting refugees and assisting in rebuilding, and millions will likely die due to food shortages, since feeding 11 billion people mostly on imports would be difficult at best, but we won't be as screwed as you imply.

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...


...Are you out of your mind? Shields weren't a deciding factor? I guess thats why we couldn't even make him shudder, let alone do any damage right? Please, you went from being naive, to downright, to be blunt, stupid, in one post. And perhaps it didn't, you're correct that we never saw it happen, but considering you're evidently a fan of "What ifs" I doubt it would have done any damage it Sovvy anyway, and it would have been silly for the largest gun out there to not crack off one shot.

And I fully understand the merits of smaller units in combat. Never once did I say they were worthless, I said they were worthless against the REAPERS; as in the giant ass God-Machines from Dark Space that have survived for AT LEAST 37 million years. Not just the fighters, every vessel we command has been proven completely inneffective. And you want to throw away lives against hundreds, possibly thousands of these things? Thank God you're not in charge, I'd declare a mutiny in a heart beat.

And who the hell says we can't? This more "Fact" like that Leviathan malarkey? We were told from day one that the Relays were invincible, and were proven wrong there too. An asteroid is sufficient, so why not something of similar destructive power? And hell, even if we need to use asteroids, just shuffle some freaking mining satellites into the systems we need, then remotely chuck at said relay when the Reapers enter.

They might notice that, but they'll sure as hell notice all your pin ****** fighters too. Only difference, if my idea boild over, NO ONE DIED.

You repeat yourself like its accomplishing something, news flash; it isn't.

News flash.....All we have right now are "what if" dont call me stupid unless you look in a mirror, especially right after you accues me of being a fan of "what ifs" you then make a "what if"(or a "maybe" which is the same thing) of your own like you did in the sentence after, you also have done yourself throughout our posts. You(like me as well) have not said anything that is an absolute fact about how or how not to go about this!!!!!!!!!! BTW i never said that shields were a "deciding" factor. Thats common sense! I used that in a term to describe how sif-fi combat works because most sic fi stuff does not have kinetic barriers. There are ways around kinetic barriers that are not the same as shields.

You said that there worthless against the reapers? How do you know that?.........It is said throughout alot of sic-fi  shows/movies/games that space combat works best in the way I have stated (or close to it). The reapers are no different. The reason we got our a** kicked in the battle of the citedal is because we knew nothing about what we were going up against...there were no tactics use against the reaper.

The MAIN REASON the reapers have gone on for 37 million years without being taken out is the trap they set(relays/Citadel) and the abillity to keep the tech about them a secret............................Thats there biggest weapon....secrecy. They are not god machines.You said "that every vessel we command has been proven completely inneffective".........Wrong! We have been in one poorly planned out battle with no idea what we were facing or for that matter how to face it. You say thank god that Iam not in charge? Iam glade YOUR not because you did not even know that. There could have been an easier way to kill them then you were aware of and you would have been to worried/scared about face them because of the citedal battle to even think there is a way to face them face to face. THERE tech is "based" on the same tech as ours. The fact that you throw in the towle WAY to early(before you even try to look at whats available) and mutiny is not a good way to get support.

They said that the relays were invincible by standered weapons(or somthing along the same lines).That indoctrinated girl in arrivl says that you can do it with a large enough asteroid. They were not proven wrong they already knew that. Your suggestion about chunking a satillites into it is good but you will have to have the right timing as they enter. also it may only kill two of three or a little more in this way since i doubt that they would all come in at once especially if they knew the plan. We also dont know all the facts about the relays yet. Bioware seem to suggest that they will be used in ME3 but we dont know how thats going to go down. While I agree that this is what bioware may use them(use there own tech against them) but if there not then i was thinking of other ways we could take them down.

Iam repeating my self because your not listening to what Iam saying. Your getting caught up in things you claim are facts and that are not at all....there "maybe's". Iam trying to think of "what ifs" based off what we know is fact and things that we can consider to use. The fact that your trying to tell me that it will not work at all for a FACT is something that i cant understand about what your saying. Then your saying why can I see the facts in your logic?....its because its is not facts at all yet, we just dont know yet. Thats why Iam specuating. Who mutinies when they themselves have no "hard" facts to go off of anyway? Especially this early on before anything is even known as a fact against the reapers?

Modifié par KevShep, 27 juillet 2011 - 04:56 .

[BentOrgy]

Lol, you're post got really rattled, really quick, didn't it?

Poorly planned or not, the Citadel is a blaring example of what happens when our offensive weapons meat a Reaper's defense; nothing. You don't need strategy to pull a trigger and see the result. And yes you did, or heavily implied it, by saying that Sovereign's weapons "weren't good" I inferred you dismissed their status in the fight. And speaking of the Citadel, yes, surprise is the main pillar in their attack, but are you implying that, even after the Citadel was breached, our predecessors never mounted a counter attack? Of course they did, and according to Vigil the Cycle takes years to accomplish. If the Protheans could not survive with years on their side, not to mention their staggering technology, what the hell do you think will happen to us in a face to face battle. The. Same. Thing. Death.

Differences in our collective "What ifs" are that mine are based on facts given by Bioware's lore, and logical deduction based on current information. Where as the majority of yours seemingly come from other stories and wars scenarios that have very little to do with Mass Effect. Reapers aren't iron clad warships that can be easily boarded, or fenced off fortresses that a simple airstrike can take care of. Your comparisons simply don't... Compare.

And I would mutiny any fool who believes that we can get close enough to a enemy like a Reaper SWARM, with current storyline technology, make it in side, and come out alive.

But I'm growing VERY weary of this "Debate." So have your little internet victory if you must, like Raven I'm getting out of here. Saphra's main points still survive, as do mine, and that's good enough for now.

[BentOrgy]

Double post, move along... Nothing to see/sniff here....

Modifié par BentOrgy, 27 juillet 2011 - 04:51 .

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

Lol, you're post got really rattled, really quick, didn't it?

Poorly planned or not, the Citadel is a blaring example of what happens when our offensive weapons meat a Reaper's defense; nothing. You don't need strategy to pull a trigger and see the result. And yes you did, or heavily implied it, by saying that Sovereign's weapons "weren't good" I inferred you dismissed their status in the fight. And speaking of the Citadel, yes, surprise is the main pillar in their attack, but are you implying that, even after the Citadel was breached, our predecessors never mounted a counter attack? Of course they did, and according to Vigil the Cycle takes years to accomplish. If the Protheans could not survive with years on their side, not to mention their staggering technology, what the hell do you think will happen to us in a face to face battle. The. Same. Thing. Death.

Differences in our collective "What ifs" are that mine are based on facts given by Bioware's lore, and logical deduction based on current information. Where as the majority of yours seemingly come from other stories and wars scenarios that have very little to do with Mass Effect. Reapers aren't iron clad warships that can be easily boarded, or fenced off fortresses that a simple airstrike can take care of. Your comparisons simply don't... Compare.

And I would mutiny any fool who believes that we can get close enough to a enemy like a Reaper SWARM, with current storyline technology, make it in side, and come out alive.

But I'm growing VERY weary of this "Debate." So have your little internet victory if you must, like Raven I'm getting out of here. Saphra's main points still survive, as do mine, and that's good enough for now.

You dont need strategy to pull the trigger to see the end result-BentOrgy                  If you pull the trigger then yes your not going to get much out of it. but if you use strategy then you may not have to tull the trigger at all. This is the beauty of strategy. The only reason that the protheans and others lost was not because of there face to face combat....it was because they were divided from the relays that were shut down. In this case no matter how you do face to face combat your going to die because the reapers can just "overwhelm" you.

My facts are from Mass Effect as well, its just that I also use other sci fi lore to get my point acrossed. Also I never said that they were easily boarded!

I was trying to tell you that swarming them does make sense and I was using other lore as an example. The reapers shut down the relays and swarm us THATS why no tactics can work on them. But this time they do not have that edge on us this time.

[Arcadia364]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It has occurred to me that humanity at least is doomed no matter what we do. I would like to point you all towards a specific planet... it was... ah yes, this one.

Mass Effect Wikia says...

Eingana is a hot, beautiful, and deadly world, covered with the debris of
ancient starships. Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles
were fought over it by two organic species, the thoi'han and the
inusannon. Although no records of the conflict remain, most historians
agree that both races wanted to colonize Eingana, and neither were
willing to share. The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles
over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually
pulled in by the planet's gravity well.
The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping
refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This
poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed. Many of the
animal species that remained showed a tendancy to develop biotic
powers. As the ecology of Eingana is energetic and aggressive, this
makes colonization a deadly peril.

The implications should be obvious, but I suspect I need to spell it out anyway.

Reapers contain massive drive cores of their own, and what fuels drive cores? Element zero, of-course.

Sowhat will happen if we destroy hundreds of Reapers on or in orbit over the Earth? The same thing that happened on Eingana will happen on Earth. Refined element zero will poison the environment and wipe out much of the life there. The effect will likely be much worse on Earth because Reapers likely carry drive cores much larger than anything the races fighting over Eingana used, meaning a hell of a lot more eezo is going to rain down on the planet.

Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants. This means
we won't be able to grow any edible food there. If the planet can't support life it certainly can't support industry and with that goes the human economy and along with it our military standing.

Someday the Earth will probably recover, but that could take tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years. It might even take many millions of years depending on how catastrohpic and total the die-off is. Humans
can't afford to wait around that long.

So I now reiterate my point that we must join with the Reapers. It is our only hope. When we lose Earth we will lose most of humanity, leaving too few humans to build a new Reaper with. We'll be stranded in a hostile and callous galaxy that will be eagerly working to reverse engineer Reaper technologies and their much larger and healtheir economies will ensure that they succeed long before we do (even with the Collector base). As
they unlock the secrets of Reaper tech they will join in union with it and change... becoming unrecognizable to us and at that point they may do whatever they want with us. Our fate will be beyond our control.

Joining with the Reapers now, while they can still create a Reaper for us, is our only hope. It is a not a fate I'd have ever wished for humanity, but it is one we can choose for ourselves, even if reluctantly, as opposed to one left up to outsiders. I think the Illusive Man and Cerberus understand this and this is why they have decided to join the Reapers.

The war was lost as soon as the Reapers descended upon the cradle of our species.

However we will survive, we will continue. Our legacy will not end.

Humanity will be reborn, unified at last in a single form, with many voices, but one mind.

A nation, sovereign, free of all weakness, and... eternal.

You sound like saruman turning teams because there is no hope
By the way why does it have to be one reaper i imagine they could get a dozen with the kind of numbers they have to work with

[Jagri]

~ Purposed Project: Seeds ~

The Reapers objective is evidently the harvesting of advance and developed life forms thus if its unrealistic to engage them directly then using a indirect method is warrented. They will be attempting to recover both living/dead human subjects and thus that provides ample opportunity to directly harm, cripple, or even out right destroy Reaper vessels. Nuclear weapons today can fit in something the size of a briefcase who's to say that the Mass Effect universe hasn't come to develop them even smaller?

So the plan would be to purposely "seed" both living human subjects and dead bodies with small nuclear devices triggered by a verity of methods in order to directly attack Reapers from within. This should ensure crippling results if not out right destruction. Of course this plan would work a finite number of times before the Reapers start to wise up.

Still if a period of time is established and human subjects of the project dispersal is wide enough the first triggering would effect a large portion of the Reaper Fleet. This proves even more true if human subjects are to be used as resources or supplies to the Reaper themselves.