18 réponses à ce sujet

[fluorine7]

I innitially want to start a post discussing who's the best written character. But turns out, I couldn't decide which one, they're all very well written. I'm not talking about you like this character as a person, I'm talking more about character development through out the game.

The ideal character should be deeply flawed, with great perosnal conflict,  either has a strong personality, or has a strong moral/princeple, who is not good for the sake of being good, or evil for the sake of being evil. A character should be multi dementional yet consistent in essense. 

So from this perspect, the major companions are all very well designed, and the character development through out the game is reasonable and believable. 

I don't like Anders as a person, I think he's pyschotic terroist who obssessed with his cause and blind to everything else. But I think he transformation from the light hearted runaway mage in Awakening to the deeply troubled martyr in DA2 is very well carried out by conversation and quest reactions. I do not agree with his action but I can't help but sympathize with him. 

I can understand why people don't like Mirrell, there's self entitlement and arrogance come with her naivete. She might be good intentioned, pure hearted, and cute, but in the end, she is selfish, and the one person who loves her the most, paid the price for her arrogance. 

I don't want to keep writting about all the NPCs. I just feel that we have so many posts about I like this character or I hate that character, and most of the time, the posts is based on characters personality, while sometimes it is difficult for players to see past the character and realize none of them are designed to be the perfect person. maybe we should give the writer a bit cridit of written such diverse, real, and wonderful characters. 

[Maria Caliban]

fluorine7 wrote...

The ideal character should be deeply flawed, with great perosnal conflict,  either has a strong personality, or has a strong moral/princeple, who is not good for the sake of being good, or evil for the sake of being evil. A character should be multi dementional yet consistent in essense.

Which is why Varric is the worst companion in the game, right?

[DoNotIngest]

Maria Caliban wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

The ideal character should be deeply flawed, with great perosnal conflict,  either has a strong personality, or has a strong moral/princeple, who is not good for the sake of being good, or evil for the sake of being evil. A character should be multi dementional yet consistent in essense.

Which is why Varric is the worst companion in the game, right?

Heh heh heh.


Yes, Sebastian is very well-written. Nearly as much as Dog, no less! *snorts*

[ipgd]

Maria Caliban wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

The ideal character should be deeply flawed, with great perosnal conflict,  either has a strong personality, or has a strong moral/princeple, who is not good for the sake of being good, or evil for the sake of being evil. A character should be multi dementional yet consistent in essense.

Which is why Varric is the worst companion in the game, right?

Or just the most genius, if you don't think his lack of flaws and character development are coincidental with his role as the storyteller.

Modifié par ipgd, 02 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[DoNotIngest]

ipgd wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

The ideal character should be deeply flawed, with great perosnal conflict,  either has a strong personality, or has a strong moral/princeple, who is not good for the sake of being good, or evil for the sake of being evil. A character should be multi dementional yet consistent in essense.

Which is why Varric is the worst companion in the game, right?

Or just the most genius, if you don't think his lack of flaws and character development are coincidental with his role as the storyteller.

Aha! That lovable Varric you experience in the game? Nope, he's just a conniving bastard. Probably sold out Hawke and the rest, right?  And his chest hair is half as long and voluminous as he makes it out to be.

[fluorine7]

In fact, I personally don't like Varric as a character, he's not nearly as interesting as other more "depressing" characters. I think it's kind of difficult for people to see the difference between a likable character and a well written character. A likable character is easy, take Yuki in FFX, still one of the most likable female character in game. A very well written character doesn't need to be likable, but he/she has depth, is interesting, has a lot of backstory, has a personal struggle reader can relate to one way or another. I'm not saying we can relate to Anders as a terrorist who blow up the Chantry, but his desperation and obsession is not that hard to understand.

Anyway, you don't need to agree with me. I can understand why people like Varric as a character, but hate Fenris or Anders or Mirrell for various reason. Varric is designed to be a funny easy going sweet little man, but Anders and Mirrell is a lot more extreme with more complex personality, therefore would receive more extreme reactions from player, either you like them or you hate them.

[mesmerizedish]

I think Varric is a very well-written character. It takes skill to make a character that shallow that likable.

[chunkyman]

I didn't find Bethany to be well written.

[fighterchick]

fluorine7 wrote...

In fact, I personally don't like Varric as a character, he's not nearly as interesting as other more "depressing" characters. I think it's kind of difficult for people to see the difference between a likable character and a well written character. A likable character is easy, take Yuki in FFX, still one of the most likable female character in game. A very well written character doesn't need to be likable, but he/she has depth, is interesting, has a lot of backstory, has a personal struggle reader can relate to one way or another. I'm not saying we can relate to Anders as a terrorist who blow up the Chantry, but his desperation and obsession is not that hard to understand.

Anyway, you don't need to agree with me. I can understand why people like Varric as a character, but hate Fenris or Anders or Mirrell for various reason. Varric is designed to be a funny easy going sweet little man, but Anders and Mirrell is a lot more extreme with more complex personality, therefore would receive more extreme reactions from player, either you like them or you hate them.

There's a Yuki in FFX?! o_O

[CrookedAsylum]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I think Varric is a very well-written character. It takes skill to make a character that shallow that likable.

Oh dear. I don't think Varric is that shallow; just what he let's Hawke see is rather shallow. I'm betting there's a tragedy behind the naming of Bianca, and knowing that most Bioware character backstories tend to be dramatic as hell, it may be what lead him to be as benevolent as he is.

Anyway, I don't think we know enough about Varric to know whether or not he's shallow.

[highcastle]

I don't see Varric as shallow at all. His depth just comes from a different source. Take his conflict with his brother. If he kills Bartrand, he agonizes about it. You just don't get to see too much of it before he puts on the brave face. It's almost the same if he sends his brother to sanitarium. Then there's his secret deals to keep the Coterie away from Merrill and Anders. This is a guy who cares about people deeply. You don't need a tragic backstory to make a character deep (indeed, tragedy alone can't guarantee depth of character), though I do think Varric got a taste of that sorrow with the Bartrand plot.

But to bring this off Varric and back on the companions as a whole, I agree they're well-written. It's no surprise to any who've seen my other posts or even look at my signature that I adore Anders' character arc. I wouldn't call him psychotic at the end, just deeply twisted and troubled, too far gone into Justice/Vengeance to extricate himself from their influence. You can see his anguish on his face, hear it in every word he speaks. It's a powerful moment.

[Lilunebrium]

While I absolutely disagree with the notion a character has to be troubled or have deep personal conflicts in order for them to be interesting, what I do agree with, is that every character who played at least some sort of role in this game was incredibly well thought out. Kudos to the writing team. Really.

Even Carver, who had my blood boiling on multiple points throughout my playthrough, was wonderfully written. Which is basically the case with every annoying character in the game; while they can frustrate me beyond belief, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate them.

The only exception I can think of, is Harverster!Orsino. That honestly felt as if the game was already finished, when someone suddenly went; "Hmm, this game lacks something, it needs more badass. Wait! I know! Let's turn Orsino into that bloody annoying monster from Golems of Amgarrak! Oh yeah, that'll be awesome, dude."

Just, ugh.

[fluorine7]

1, what's the name of that perfect princess girl in FFX? Yuki? did I spell her name wrong? either way, I don't like her. she's the most blank character EVER.

2, I hope Varric has an interesting backstory, I'm sure there is, which involves bianca. It's just I didn't get to see that in this story.

3, About the tortured character... well, think of it in this way, how do you show your characters personality? In conflict, in struggle. Without Conflict, there'll be no story. Eventually, the character with the most well thought out personal/social struggle end up becoming the most interesting character, and in turn, you end up with a tortured, constantly struggling character.

Starting from Greek theater, to Shakespeare, to modern literature, to comics, movies, games... characters with personal struggle are always more interesting than "happy characters".

But... I could be wrong. I'm not a literature major or anything.

4, I wasn't happy with Orsino either. I can sort of kind of understand why he turn to blood magic, but that story line is rather weak, and not very well developed. It's like Doyle decided to introduce Moriarty so he can have someone kill Sherlock.


5, I like Carver, sure. he's a pain in the ****, but he's believable character.

[mesmerizedish]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

Anyway, I don't think we know enough about Varric to know whether or not he's shallow.

Do you really not see the irony of this statement?

[Critical Miss]

Varric is one of the best written characters I've ever come across in a game. He claims to be a compulsive liar, so whether he told Cassandra the absolute truth about Hawke is debatable. Hawke is an enigma, even to the player.

[mesmerizedish]

Critical Miss wrote...

Varric is one of the best written characters I've ever come across in a game. He claims to be a compulsive liar, so whether he told Cassandra the absolute truth about Hawke is debatable. Hawke is an enigma, even to the player.

I suppose. But to really get any sense of enjoyment out of the game, you (read: I, and everyone should be just like me ) have to take what he says at face value. If I've just spent fifty hours playing through the dream of an autistic child, well... that'd suck.

I do agree that he's fantastically-written, though. I don't think he's nearly as much of a compulsive liar as he claims. Which is ironic.

[highcastle]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

Varric is one of the best written characters I've ever come across in a game. He claims to be a compulsive liar, so whether he told Cassandra the absolute truth about Hawke is debatable. Hawke is an enigma, even to the player.

I suppose. But to really get any sense of enjoyment out of the game, you (read: I, and everyone should be just like me ) have to take what he says at face value. If I've just spent fifty hours playing through the dream of an autistic child, well... that'd suck.

I do agree that he's fantastically-written, though. I don't think he's nearly as much of a compulsive liar as he claims. Which is ironic.

To paraphrase Gaider from another thread, Bobby's in the shower!

I don't think BioWare would be as cruel as the writers of Dallas in making everything Varric said a lie. That being said, it gives them some leeway if they want to bring back characters who might be dead. Not that they haven't done that already (which I approve of as long as it benefits the story; Anders fit his role so well in DA2, I think resurecting him from potential death can be forgiven; same with Leliana).

[mesmerizedish]

highcastle wrote...

To paraphrase Gaider from another thread, Bobby's in the shower!

I don't think BioWare would be as cruel as the writers of Dallas in making everything Varric said a lie. That being said, it gives them some leeway if they want to bring back characters who might be dead. Not that they haven't done that already (which I approve of as long as it benefits the story; Anders fit his role so well in DA2, I think resurecting him from potential death can be forgiven; same with Leliana).

I agree! If something benefits the story, retcon it. I have no problem with that. I'd just rather they be upfront about it instead of creating an in-universe backdoor. I'm almost certainly in the minority there, but saying "Varric got this wrong" makes me feel even more cheated than saying "Yeah, retcon!"

[Taura-Tierno]

I hate Anders.

But yes, he is certainly well-written. It's a good kind of hatred.