200 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanguinerin]

I like having companions with a distinct look, however I also like having a choice. Allowing us to unlock an outfit that retains their uniqueness would have been nice. Conversely, allowing us to switch between the original and the unlocked would also have been nice.

As for the upgrades, I believe that they should have improved the look if we can't change them between a couple of different looks. Adding onto the original look would have been a lot better. Instead, I just didn't bother with companion upgrades through purchases. I took what I found as loot and that was it.

Edit: Although my ultimate preference is equipping the armor that I want to on my companion. I wouldn't be upset with the Dragon Age II system if there was some kind of alternative to change their look based on their uniqueness. If I'm playing as a mage, then I don't want rogue or warrior armor dropping all of the time. It's pointless and crowds my inventory more since I can't put it on anyone.

Modifié par HallowedWarden, 02 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[ReallyRue]

I'm not bothered about changing my companions' armour to whatever cast-offs the protagonist is not currently wearing.

However, I'd have liked it if the companions' armours changed after time jumps. Say if Isabela started off in her current outfit for Act 1, then something a little different in Act 2, then 3.

Or failing that, if they had worn different clothing in their 'home bases', so the stuff they wear outside feels like 'adventuring outfits' as opposed to a piece of clothing they can't remove for seven years. Similar to Hawke, changing his/her clothes after returning to the estate.

Modifié par ReallyRue, 02 avril 2011 - 07:54 .

[emlit]

I prefer being able to give armor sets to companions rather than hoard them in a chest.

[Tuor]

I like the unique look on each companion and that look is kept. So yes I like that change. But I swing both ways. I also like being able to upgrade my part with things I find.

[The_FenixV]

No I also liked it because it gave a unique look to companions, something DA: O lacked. In DA: O you'd give them armors and they'd just look like a replica of your main characters armor. Now in the second game they don't look like it, the armor they wear is part of their personality in a way, or their fashion dress whatever you call it. I can't imagine Varric without his coat. Can't imagine Aveline without the guard armor.

[Serpieri Nei]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

am_victory wrote...

I actually love the way they handled it.  Finding
upgrades is fun. 

Digging through mounds of gear and comparing stats on 8
different characters... not so much. 

I would prefer if the characters
had a subtle difference in their appearance after each upgrade, though. 
Or, maybe let us choose one of three outfits for each character, or
maybe have them change a bit at the start of each act.  But the upgrades
- I hope that's here to stay.

Go and support EA by buying companion armor dlc's.
I prefer equiping my companions myself.

WoW, just saw this on the ME Sight. Guess that explains why they got rid of them, which means that the other stuff that was streamlined for people that needed EASY, and AWESOME given to them at a press of a button.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 02 avril 2011 - 08:21 .

[RhythmlessNinja]

I like it alot, what I don't like is the fact that 90% of the gear in game is useless to me & that companions cant use them. Hell, I dont care if they'd still look the same after giving them new gear, I like their unique looks, what I don't like is all the useless items I acquire with any given class I play.

[Sanguinerin]

ReallyRue wrote...

However, I'd have liked it if the companions' armours changed after time jumps. Say if Isabela started off in her current outfit for Act 1, then something a little different in Act 2, then 3.

Or failing that, if they had worn different clothing in their 'home bases', so the stuff they wear outside feels like 'adventuring outfits' as opposed to a piece of clothing they can't remove for seven years. Similar to Hawke, changing his/her clothes after returning to the estate.

I love both of your ideas, but I particularly love the second one! That would have been wonderful at least.

[StingingVelvet]

People more concerned with looks than gameplay bother me. Equipping your party members is gameplay... them looking pretty and unique is just looks. Gameplay > Looks.

[Bathead]

I neither love or hate it. It is what it is. I do agree with others who have said some kind of graphical indication when they got their upgrades would have been nice.
As far as whether Gameplay>Looks or vice-versa, that, like most things involved in the game is a matter of personal preference, and as some have indicated, not having to wrestle with extra armor and all the details and statistics involved makes for a more pleasing gaming experience for them.

Modifié par Bathead, 02 avril 2011 - 09:09 .

[uberdowzen]

TJSolo wrote...

Torchlight is about loot, it is fun.
Recettear is about loot, it is fun.
Borderlands is about loot, it is fun. Granted it is a shooter with RPG elements but the elements in question are skills, levels, and loot.

Of those 3 Torchlight is the only one I've played, but am I correct in saying that they you're only managing one character? Managing the inventory for one character is fun (Oblivion, Gothic, The Witcher, Diablo etc) but I find I get bored with it if I'm managing multiple characters. Plus I always give my character the good gear so my companions are always a bit gimped!

The other thing though is that 2 of the 3 examples you mention are Diablo-style action RPGs. Those types of games do have fun inventory management because you're only dealing with one character and you have a very small loot-tetris style inventory. Dragon Age games have massive list-based inventories which just aren't that interesting to sort through. I enjoyed the inventory management in both DAO and DA2 but I personally preferred it in DA2.

The sifting through loot argument is standardfare for some folks that don't want to spend time checking out gear but still for some damn reason insist to play RPGs. I played an RPG where the developer listened to that argument and got rid of sifting through loot and the end result was more tedious and awkard than loot bags. That game was Fable 3.

Another developer did it and the end result was one of the best games of all time. That game was Mass Effect 2 (let's not get into that debate though). Peter Molyneaux has also stated in the past that he doesn't consider Fable games to be RPGs.

Firstly I do actually enjoy loot management in many RPGs. I personally enjoy it a lot more when there's a visual aid such as Diablo style loot tetris or Baldur's Gate style icons and grid. I also enjoy the challenge of smaller inventories as they're easier to manage and make choosing which gear you want to keep and which you want to ditch much more interesting (see Oblivion).

Secondly I don't understand this idea that an RPG has to have this very strict set of unbreakable rules. It must have inventory management, it must have attributes and skills and levels, it must have non-linear environments...to me it seems like it could (and to a certain extent does) lead to stagnation. Developers are scared to try out new ideas because they know that if they don't follow the RPG rules to the letter people will complain.

Yes, and the default companion apparel look awesome.

No.

Yes. Agree to disagree?

[Sammyjb]

I like how they have iconic armors, but for characters like Aveline, doesn't that just look like generic armor? Morrigan's armor is one of the only ones that truly feels iconic to me. I want the old system back, but I wouldn't mind fixed appearances for them. Substituting stats and stuff is what matters, not the actual appearance to most RPGers, if I may speak for what I think they want.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

The inability to switch out armour made it seem far more like an action game then an rpg.
No good reason to do so. It wasted the items you couldn't use yourself, like the blood dragon armour. Anything that wasn't uniqe was just a waste to find, since you're not going to use it. And if you wanted to give the characters a uniqe look you could just restrict which armour the would wear.

Just dumb. "Oh, enchanted armour of doom? Nah, I'm good in my cloth, thanks."

[The_FenixV]

StingingVelvet wrote...

People more concerned with looks than gameplay bother me. Equipping your party members is gameplay... them looking pretty and unique is just looks. Gameplay > Looks.

Unique style for your characters kinda give a gameplay moment as well. Would you rather your companions all looked the same, wearing the same armors? That was practically the problem with Origins, the armors never looked unique all you saw in Alistair if your Warden was a human warrior was just another copy of him, nothing more, nothing less. 

[am_victory]

Honestly, the gameplay vs. appearance thing is purely subjective. To some people, appearance is a big part of of the enjoyment of the game. Especially in a role playing game, where you are immersing yourself in a role - part of the very definition of RPG. Also, if the gameplay trumps appearance thing were 100% true, we'd all be playing Ultima: Age of Darkness, or Arena, or the Gold Box games, right?

@ ReallyRue - both very good ideas.
@ Uberdowzen - in fairness, Mass Effect 2 is also a Bioware game :-) Haven't played it, yet.

[DariusKalera]

The_FenixV wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

People more concerned with looks than gameplay bother me. Equipping your party members is gameplay... them looking pretty and unique is just looks. Gameplay > Looks.

Unique style for your characters kinda give a gameplay moment as well. Would you rather your companions all looked the same, wearing the same armors? That was practically the problem with Origins, the armors never looked unique all you saw in Alistair if your Warden was a human warrior was just another copy of him, nothing more, nothing less. 

Good thing he had that personality to make him unique.  Not that I liked his personality, I found him whiny and annoying, but at least he had a bit of depth to him.

[stragonar]

Some good ideas in here, I'd have to say if you combined the suggested auto-equip toggle feature for people that don't want the micromanagement of companions and a "keep default appearance" toggle also then most people would be happy.

[The_FenixV]

DariusKalera wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

People more concerned with looks than gameplay bother me. Equipping your party members is gameplay... them looking pretty and unique is just looks. Gameplay > Looks.

Unique style for your characters kinda give a gameplay moment as well. Would you rather your companions all looked the same, wearing the same armors? That was practically the problem with Origins, the armors never looked unique all you saw in Alistair if your Warden was a human warrior was just another copy of him, nothing more, nothing less. 

Good thing he had that personality to make him unique.  Not that I liked his personality, I found him whiny and annoying, but at least he had a bit of depth to him.

At least he has a personality, they could of decided to not give him one and just make him a neutral kind of guy, people should start realizing that it's the character that matters the most, not the armor. Only annoying thing in DAII is that we can't use all the armors we find but I don't find it much of a problem. 

[Master Shiori]

I like the fact that each companion has a unique look. It always bothered me in Origins how characters would end up looking exactly like every other human enemy you have to face (Morrigan being the exception here). The Ambasador quest in Orzammar where you end up fighting 5 Alistair clone guards was a good example of this. How great would it be if Leliana actually had that awesome looking armor from SA trailer, rather than end up with generic looking leather gear.

That said, I feel you should still be able to modify the looks of your companion armor during the game. Maybe have 2-3 alternative outfits that you can give them or even have their original outfit change a bit as you find upgrades for it. I loved how your LI's changed their looks once you romanced them, from Fenris adding little details like Amell Crest to his gear, Isabela replacing parts of her armor to Merrill getting a whole new outfit. This is the type of change I'd like to see expanded on in the future.

Going back to the way things were in Origins and having your characters wear generic gear again would be a step in the wrong direction.

[TJSolo]

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...
Of those 3 Torchlight is the only one I've played, but am I correct in saying that they you're only managing one character? Managing the inventory for one character is fun (Oblivion, Gothic, The Witcher, Diablo etc) but I find I get bored with it if I'm managing multiple characters. Plus I always give my character the good gear so my companions are always a bit gimped![/quote]

The number of characters whose gear can be manage and still remain fun is as subjective as how many companions can be active on a team at one time before it becomes a too many to watch over. My comment is simply that RPGs about loot can be fun, period.  You and the OP agreed that loot for 1 character is fun and are now trying to say that loot for more than 1 character is not fun. Given the why RPGs have worked with loot/gear and multiple characters the line that you two are drawing seems arbitrarily crafted to support the decisions of the DA2 dev team. Oddly enough it is my second time hearing such an argument, the first time being with ME2 but that point died quicker than you can say Appearance Pack 1.

[quote]The other thing though is that 2 of the 3 examples you mention are Diablo-style action RPGs. Those types of games do have fun inventory management because you're only dealing with one character and you have a very small loot-tetris style inventory. Dragon Age games have massive list-based inventories which just aren't that interesting to sort through. I enjoyed the inventory management in both DAO and DA2 but I personally preferred it in DA2.[/quote]

Borderlands and Recettear just use loot lists that have multiple ways of being sorted. I suppose Torchlight's inventory is Tetris-like if Tetris only used 1 block.
For me the inventory management is worse because in DAO I am able to sort by tabs, toss items in junk, sell all junk at vendors, and buy/sell in the same UI. However in DA2 I can do all that except for buying and selling in the same UI.  Functionally on the PC the inventory systems are the same except that DAO uses the backdrop of a book and DA2's backdrop is blackness. Going out and saying you prefering DA2's inventory management looks like a real stretch just to add something into the DA2 plus category, honestly.



[quote]
Another developer did it and the end result was one of the best games of all time. That game was Mass Effect 2 (let's not get into that debate though). Peter Molyneaux has also stated in the past that he doesn't consider Fable games to be RPGs.[/quote]

Peter is a sideways thinker but the classification that the Fable games fit is RPG. If Peter wants to try and create a new genre of games for Fable to fit in he is welcome to try.



[quote]Secondly I don't understand this idea that an RPG has to have this very strict set of unbreakable rules. It must have inventory management, it must have attributes and skills and levels, it must have non-linear environments...to me it seems like it could (and to a certain extent does) lead to stagnation. Developers are scared to try out new ideas because they know that if they don't follow the RPG rules to the letter people will complain.[/quote]

I have not said there is a strict set of rules for RPGs. The RP genre of games does not have clear cut defintions and share many elements with other genres like action, adventure, and simulation. If sticking to a formula within a genre can lead to stagnation in the RPG genre then every other gaming genre is subject to stagnation but there is no genre wide stagnation. It is just unfounded fearmongering from people that want change for the sake of change and have no clue about the customer retention.
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
Yes, and the default companion apparel look awesome.
[/quote]
No.
[/quote]
Yes. Agree to disagree?
[/quote]
[/quote]
No.

Modifié par TJSolo, 02 avril 2011 - 11:21 .

[MrTijger]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

WoW, just saw this on the ME Sight. Guess that explains why they got rid of them, which means that the other stuff that was streamlined for people that needed EASY, and AWESOME given to them at a press of a button.

Uh, you dont need to buy those DLC's and second, all companions in ME 2 can change their outfit when you win their loyalty so you clearly do not know what you are talking about.

[GeorgeZip]

I thought what they did was a big improvement. Keeping track of like 60 slots is a pain. You still get control of 5 slots per companion including the weapon.

I was disappointed that each upgrade doesn't visually show up. I've looked close but can't see a change. I got merrills armor to change in my first play through but can't remember how. It looked really cool, all white.

[The Spirit of Dance]

I liked being able to upgrade armor as well as each character having a unique look. Sometimes i was envious of my companions because they didn't need any attribute requirements for their armor. However deep down i still prefer the way companion armor was handled in origins mostly because i liked searching for legendary armor, seeing changes in my companions stats and seeing my companions in different robes/armor.

Modifié par supremebloodwolf, 02 avril 2011 - 11:49 .

[RifuloftheWest]

I think the critique on Origins regarding how companions ended up looking the same has less to do with being able to customize companion armor and more to do with the lack of armor model variety. I kept Morrigan in her default robes, not so much due to it being an iconic look, but rather because it was far more attractive compared to the other robes.

Those with the PC version of Origins had the advantage of being able to correct that with armor mods, of which I admit to utilizing myself (including the Sacred Ashes Leliana armor). In various Origins play throughs, my companions certainly did not have any generic type of armors.

That said, I can definitely appreciate what BioWare tried to do in DA2 regarding companion armor. It looked like a very reasonable compromise - static unique companion armors, with the ability for upgrades. However, I think much could have been improved in execution as some have pointed out.

For me, the upgrades that were available felt lacking. I was expecting a more comprehensive armor rune system where I would be able to choose and enchant certain attributes or special properties that I felt were needed based on the companions strengths or weaknesses. DA2's system seemed far too rigid. The properties of the companion armor upgrades were chosen for you, despite how you may be building or utilizing a particular companion. The armor runes themselves were just not comprehensive enough for my tastes.

Having the framed narrative spanning over a decade is something that I found to be detrimental to the static look of the companions. If DA2's setting was similar to Origins where the events unfold within a year, I suspect that the static look of nearly all the companions would be less of an issue to some.

For the record, I prefer to have the ability of customizing companion armor. But I can certainly appreciate that there are those who would rather have a unique look for their companions for various reasons. There have been some good suggestions in this thread and I really think that for DA2, a unique restricted set of armor for each companion in Acts 2 and 3 would have been a vast improvement and fit better into the story setting with the time jumps. The armor sets themselves could have been tied into the specific companion quests of each Act or simply unlocked after completion of the quest. Most importantly, they would be completely optional in use for those that like the default look.

The slight variation in companion armor for the love interests in DA2 addresses this somewhat. However, I would like to see it taken even further. Using Morrigan's personal quest as an example: after the confrontation with Flemeth, regardless of whether or not you fought Flemeth, you gained access to a new set of robes for Morrigan. Now in this case, the robes looked exactly the same, but it would have been great if they looked different but kept to a similar style as the original robes and naturally had different stat bonuses.

While probably difficult to implement, I think DA2's approach can be expanded to encompass both sets of preferences. An iconic look that is upgradable, along with different quest based armors sets available for each companion.

Fortunately, there are already mods available where I can have Fenris in something a little more beefier than those feathered tights, or have Isabela in something a little less revealing - or more revealing depending on my play through .

Modifié par RifuloftheWest, 02 avril 2011 - 11:55 .

[Hunter-Wolf]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

WoW, just saw this on the ME Sight. Guess that explains why they got rid of them, which means that the other stuff that was streamlined for people that needed EASY, and AWESOME given to them at a press of a button.

There was nothing HARD or DEEP about armor in ME1 ... it was extremely linear .. even the mods were very limited and linear .. it gave the illusion of depth but it really didn't add much ... upgrades in ME2 works just fine.

TJSolo wrote...

Torchlight is about loot, it is fun.
Recettear is about loot, it is fun.
Borderlands
is about loot, it is fun. Granted it is a shooter with RPG elements but
the elements in question are skills, levels, and loot.

The
sifting through loot argument is standardfare for some folks that don't
want to spend time checking out gear but still for some damn reason
insist to play RPGs. I played an RPG where the developer listened to
that argument and got rid of sifting through loot and the end result was
more tedious and awkard than loot bags. That game was Fable 3.

All these games alongside Diablo involve loot and managing but only a single character ... non of them involve managing more than half-a-dozen characters ... big huge difference.

Besides .. what's with the extremity .. it's either i have to spend hours sifting through tons of items for 8 characters or it is no RPG at all .. WTH ... there is too much sifting in DA:O simple and clear .. reducing that chore isn't making it any less of an RPG .. RPGS aren't busy work and chores .... increasing the number of upgrades/mods and allowing some color/parts tinkering would hav been more than enough.