24 réponses à ce sujet

[VampireSoap]

I know it'll make a lot of people angry just by looking at the title, but let's discuss in a civilized matter, thanks. I really don't want an Exalted March against me.

Anyway, my point is, Andraste was possibly a powerful mage, and that "the Maker" could be a very powerful spirit who resents the crulty of the Tevinter Empire. Therefore, the spirit decided to help Andraste on her justice cause. (Or even a demon who made a terrible deal with Andraste.) Think about Anders and Flemeth. It is totally possible for a man to retain consciousness whille being possessed.

Everything happened in the game, like magic, spirits, those things are consider to be real. But tales like "Andraste became a bribe to the Maker", "The Tevinter Empire bow before her mighty divine power."...etc. They do sound like exaggerate fairy tales told by churches to keep people being ignorant.

Once again, it's just my own silly opinion, never meant to offend anyone.

There's another discuss related to this topic
http://social.biowar...75822/1#6882398

[Hallusinaatti]

Like I pointed out in the other thread, I believe that the Maker is either just an unnaturally powerful spirit or a demon that exists in a part of the fade humans call the Black City, or that the Maker doesn't exist at all.
On the former theory, I figure that Tevinter mages knew about such a powerful spirit* and tried to capture it (a blood mage in DA2 points out that Demons were servants to Tevinter, not their masters) but got their asses kicked and were possessed by powerful demons, thus creating the first Darkspawn. They then fled underground and started the usual process involving Broodmothers to create more of their kind.

* Worshiping the Maker appeared only after the First Blight, which lasted for some 100 years. There is no indication that Tevinter abandoned the Maker in favor of the dragon gods. This brings about the problem that why Tevinter went to the Golden City in the first place. I believe they did this, since even Tevinters do not deny their involvement with the Blights. Anyhow this theory's future depends a LOT on whether this is a continuity flaw, an oversight or an intentional detail by the developers. 



Secondly, an in-game source (some Codex) indicates that some specialists think that the Old Gods are/were just big dragons who are hibernating, instead of being actual gods cast underground by the Maker.

Modifié par Hallusinaatti, 02 avril 2011 - 08:53 .

[Jerrybnsn]

As Morrigan stated in the Witch Hunt, Flemeth is not a blood mage, not an abomination, the truth is she's not even human. This could have been Andraste.

As for the Maker, I think story-wise their is something to it. The Tevinter mages did something to some type of being.

[Icehawk7]

It's fantasy with magic involved. Anything is possible.

Legends over time tend to grow over time especially if someone say in power or wishes to be in power can use it for their own ends.

As far as we know, Wynne's special friend could be either.

[yfullman]

The old gods really exist so why not

[Serena Firewing]

I doubt any form of deities exist in the Dragon Age universe. The "Old Gods" of the tevinter emperium were dragons no more no less. The archdemons get their names of the old gods by the chantry but nothing points to them being anything other then corrupt dragons.

[VampireSoap]

Wow! Thanks everyone. I didn't know there are so many people would agree with the idea.

To Hallusinaatti: It's a very technical analysis. I really agree that "Old Gods are/were just big dragons who are hibernating". It makes a whole lot of sense. You see, Archdemons are intelligent, they are able to command armies, indeed.(DLC Darkspawn Chronicles) But I guess any other dragons can do that too. (And Archdemons look exactly like a corrupted high dragon!!!)

To Jerrybnsn: It's possible that Flemeth is Andraste herself since she's so very unique in the game. (And she's also a woman LOL)

To Icehawk7: Wyne's case is very interesting....I mean, really, how much is the chance that you get saved by some guardian angels?

To Serena Firewing : I also suspect that the chantry lies A LOT.

Sorry about replying everyone in one post, but I just have something to say to everyone, and I really don't want to click on "Quote" for 5 times.

[VampireSoap]

The Water God wrote...

Serena Firewing wrote...

I doubt any form of deities exist in the Dragon Age universe. The "Old Gods" of the tevinter emperium were dragons no more no less. The archdemons get their names of the old gods by the chantry but nothing points to them being anything other then corrupt dragons.

Actually the fact that they are corrupt dragons has been disproven. For one thing why do these "dragons" live underground and have to call darkspawn to taint them? Secondly how come dragons living above ground don't become archdemons?

The architect pretty much confirms all of this.

It's a shame that I never got the time to play through awakening.

[Jerrybnsn]

Okay.

I got it now. Andraste is Flemeth and the Maker is Sandal. Right?

[Mecha Tengu]

NECROOOOOoooooooooooo

[Qis]

well...if you fail to answer the Gauntlet questions...those spirits turn into what? Monsters right?

So...all these Andraste and maker things are devil in disguise.

[Blackbaron15]

Niza wrote...

well...if you fail to answer the Gauntlet questions...those spirits turn into what? Monsters right?

So...all these Andraste and maker things are devil in disguise.

Those are a series of tests with consequence if you fail. it would be odd if you failed and nothing happens because the maker loves us all and does not punish those unworthy.

[Qis]

don't you see those are monsters in disguise?

Punishment? I can defeat all those spirit monsters, so i am stronger than the Maker lol

[GSSAGE7]

I never got the Gauntlet questions wrong, but if they turned into Ash Wraiths, Genitivi said that Andraste's disciples turned themselves into those as a sign of (after)lifelong devotion. Except for Hassarion's Wife. Why she's there, I'll never know.

[Qis]

i purposely answer wrong hehehe

If you have Morrigan, and if you refuse to answer the Guardian, she confirmed that the Guardian is a spirit of some sort and not a good spirit.

When i was playing as mage, and i do this quest first before Redcliff...i meet Jowan...so conclusion is that is not Jowan but spirit disguise as Jowan. Real Jowan is at the Redcliff prison.

[LTD]

Heh, it amuses me how people keep theorizing this Maker (If that is indeed his real name) or  Andraste are actually but powerful mages. Why is it that seemingly well educated folks like yourselves take the very existance of Mages as granted rather than regarding it as supersitious drivel that it obviously is.

Like any and all civilized men who prefer thinking with their own minds, I don't believe in the so called "magic" flowing amok in Thedas.The very idea that a so called " mage" would be able to launch a cone of ice or an exploding fireball from his hands is nothing but superstitious drivel by ignorant, uncivilized housewives who have made the mistake of venturing too far away from kitchen.

Of course, there are plenty of eye witness accounts of this stuff happening. Are there any good illusions or scams that don't have? Surely not. Believe you me friends and neighbors, when I say it doesn't take some intimate connection to fade and years of studying mysterious arcane energies to cast a fireball. Instead, what you need is a handful of gullible country folk who place too much faith in hear-say. Under right conditions, it doesn't take much to guide the imagination of such mind to directions you desire. Wear a spooky looking robe, hideous void-of-taste hat and hire someone to act out as a towering templar by your side.Bring a hidden torch and cleverly placed barrel full of black powder. There is your so called "fireball". People always see what they want to see. Keep a gullible pile of peasants warm by fireplace as you fill their minds with lievely accounts on " frost magic" and then, as the autumn evening grows colder, take them outside without jackets. There is your " cone of cold"
Unlike decades of study in Tower of Magi, bribing some bastard in need of easy coin to act as a criple has everything to do with " casting" a " miraculous""healing" "spell"

While isolated incidents of this " magic" being "cast" are easy to write off as harmless scams and pranks done without any true malice, I wager the issue has a far more sinister side as well. Think of it.. Masked templars touring countryseide. Searching for children with " potential" and taking them to some mysterious " Tower of the Magi" ..all is not right here. Unlike connection to fade, HERE is a matter that SHOULD be investigated..

Modifié par LTD, 06 mai 2011 - 11:10 .

[digi_ronin]

Good one.

Reminded me strongly of that D&D run with three dwarves (who didn't believe in magic) who SO disbelieved that evil liches escape teleportation that they stubbornly kept searching for a secret door after he disappeared.

Hey... wait a second... I remember that one ended with my elf mage bleeding profusely onto the carpet in the next corridor. While they were still busy back there. With two of them using the head of the third one as a battering ram... to finally "crack that secret door open".

Darn them all.

Modifié par digi_ronin, 06 mai 2011 - 11:43 .

[Qis]

What i don't understand is...the Blight is the punishment from the Maker right? So Grey Wardens defying the Maker? The Chantry also defying the Maker...

Modifié par Niza, 06 mai 2011 - 04:14 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

*Spoilers for Demons' Souls read at your own risk* (I wouldn't consider them spoilers, though, because I learned this on a forum it isn't really clear in the game)


The whole Maker=Demon thing reminds me of Demons' Souls. The god is a freaking monster, or the people are demons that feed the monster through greed (regardless, they are tricking you). Demons' Souls has really good lore, but a terrible story.


Anyways, back on topic, I think the Maker does exist. Who knows magic, monsters, and immortal elves exist. If the Old Gods exist, then that leaves room for some other gods, but I don't fully know. I think the Architect is alluding to the fact that the Old Gods don't exist, though.

[Zaxares]

It's difficult to say whether or not the Maker as humans believe Him to be truly exists. There's no proof that Andraste actually spoke to Him, or that she was really taken up to the Golden City to become His Bride after her death. Even the spirits that dwell in the Fade don't know if there truly is a Maker or a Golden City (conversations with Justice in Awakening reveal this startling fact).

What is unquestionable, however, is that there is some sort of link between lyrium and the Fade, and to spirits in general. Justice described it as the "most beautiful song" ever, which sounds eerily familiar to how the darkspawn describe the call of the Old Gods. This leads me to theorise that yes, the Magisters of the Tevinter Imperium DID transport themselves physically into the Fade, into someplace that had been sealed and locked away. And there, they awoke or disturbed something immensely powerful. (Whether or not this entity was a malevolent force that corrupted all it came into contact with, resulting in the darkspawn curse, or whether it was the punishment from a wrathful Maker is still up for debate.) Whatever this thing is, it has some connection with the Old Gods. Perhaps the entity sealed away in the Fade was some ancient Dragon Spirit, perhaps a Dragon God, and it's trying to reach out to the surviving Old Gods in Thedas for some unknown purpose.

*WARNING, mild DA2 spoilers following*

It leads me to suspect that this entity, whoever or whatever he is, is the same being that Sandal speaks of in his mysterious prophecy in DA2.

[GSSAGE7]

Niza wrote...

What i don't understand is...the Blight is the punishment from the Maker right? So Grey Wardens defying the Maker? The Chantry also defying the Maker...

The funny thing is, you can bring that up in a convo with Leliana.
She just calls you a pesimmist.

[Qis]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

Niza wrote...

What i don't understand is...the Blight is the punishment from the Maker right? So Grey Wardens defying the Maker? The Chantry also defying the Maker...

The funny thing is, you can bring that up in a convo with Leliana.
She just calls you a pesimmist.

Actually, it is taken from the conversation, and wil get Leliana disapprove -3

That is what i don't understand, they say bla bla bla about dark spwan is a curse from the Maker, but they use the Maker name in stopping the Blight. I just feel like, what is this non-sense?

So my theory is, Tevinter Imperioum actually innocent in this matter, or maybe they did something in the past but they are not the cause of the Blight. But the Chantry who relate them by making cover up story just to show how evil Tevinter Imperioum is...Same like today...Iraq is said have weapon of mass destruction, Islam is religion of terror, Middle East is the axis of evil...

Maybe...it was the Chantry themselves who release something bad...that is why they need Templars to watch the mages...because the one who maybe know what really happen are mages because only mages have strong affinity with the Fade. They fear the mages....Tevinter Imperioum was the Empire of Mages.

The Elves who aid them to fight the Tevinters right? I think there is something the Elves know that make the Chantry declare war on them and destroy every historical records about the Elves.

Spoiler :

There is an ancient scripture quest you found in the temple right? You give it to Sister Justine at Denerim to translate it but will never know what the real content is about...she said it is somewhat like a different story about Andraste husband.

Modifié par Niza, 08 mai 2011 - 06:59 .

[Maderek]

*puts on shades*

I'm too cool for religion. The chantry is a glorified book club.

[megabrowncoat]

Lol am i the only one who follows the maker and his bride? Things where just fine till we all started playing dragon age the chant of light was sang and the mages kept safe o for the good old days....