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[ISpeakTheTruth]

Now we know that the Lore of DA would have us see all demons as completely evil monsters that want to steal everyone's live and pretty much cause all kinds of misery. I'll grant that most end up being exactly that way however I've always seen the Sloth and Desire demon in a slightly different light we've seen plenty of violent versions of these demons but there have been a few that have popped up in the games that tend to be very different from their kind. They both have shown a desire to try to make a good deal with people.

Let's look at Desire first. The one instance that always enters my mind is in DAO's circle quest when we see her with a Templar, she's made a world for him where he has a family and is happy no longer under the rule of the Chantry. Some would see this as just her using him but I see it differently I see it as a demon who is trying in her own way to make that person happy. She seems to enjoy the happiness that she's given him and he on his part probably enjoys the world that she's made for him.

Now for Sloth this demon always seemed like the least evil of all the other demons. Where the others will kill almost all the time the sloth's we've seen in both games don't really want to fight anyone. In the Mage origin the Sloth-bear never tries to possess the mage and doesn't want to hurt him and is even willing to help the mage in exchange for nothing but to be left alone. That is a powerful example of a demon that has almost no evil in him at all that there's a mage a tool for entering the human world and it doesn't want to bother him.

Then we have the Sloth in the Circle/Fade quest. Now at first I saw what the Sloth was doing to be purely evil but then when we see the world he's built for everyone just like the Desire demon he seems to want to make the people he feeds on happy.  Again he's given how many bodies to possess so he can become fully material and yet he doesn't kill everyone He builds a world where everyone can be happy and he even appologises to the Warden when he's finally faced saying that he'd try harder this time to make the world better. Given being a Sloth he feeds on this type of emotion but I always felt that he didn't have the evil of a demon like Anger or Pride have where they enjoy hurting people

This is why I've always wanted a Desire/Sloth demon as a recuitable team member because they both have parts of their characters that aren't entirely evil. They have both showed a willingness to want to make a good deal for both parties. So are there any Desire/Sloth lovers out there or am I all alone?

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 02 avril 2011 - 02:37 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Why does this bring to mind Maria wanting "discrimination" against "desire spirits" in DA to end?

[wulfsturm]

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 02 avril 2011 - 02:38 .

[Camenae]

I like it. Kinda like in ME2 when we get Legion as a team member.

[Lithuasil]

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

[wulfsturm]

Lithuasil wrote...
Because that worked so well in ME2 

[ISpeakTheTruth]

What about Sloth? Doesn't he get any love? He could be a more comical companion.

Hawke: Sloth help me kill these people!
Sloth: Ok....*Yawns* But them I'm going to take a nap.

[Torax]

The problem that people will have even with the 2 examples you give in the demons feeding off people. It lets them feel mortal. Both are illusions. If Niall is to be believed though it was his life forced fueling that fade event for example. Spirits are supposedly not like this. Though Valor in the Magi Origin challenges you to a duel. You can accuse him of being a Demon for wanting to kill you. He becomes offended.

Merrill states that Demons are just Spirits. That they differ from each other just like Humans differ. Opinions and goals vary among them. I'm sure this is true. Though something wanting to slowly drain my life force to fuel their wants and needs? That probably doesn't fit in the "aren't all bad" category.

[sphinxess]

Just think - no more nasty nightmares with a Sloth Demon as a party member - just a nice relaxing time in the fade - until he gets too lazy to wake you up one morning.....

[ISpeakTheTruth]

That's part of the deal, the demon gives you something and you give the demon something. However in Sloth's case the mage origin one never triest to harm the mage at all so there's an example of a Sloth that isn't evil at all or at least not to the mage.

The second example even though Niall had died in the living world he was still Sloth's dream world so had Sloth been able to make a better dream Niall wouldn't have even noticed he was dead and would have been in a perfect world made just for him.

[Darth Krytie]

Lithuasil wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

I'm laughing too hard to give a coherent comment on this post.

[Torax]

Lithuasil wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

I took DA2's version of Morinth as that Blood Mage in the Brothel. So stabbed her in the cooch.

[TheJist]

I can't see any of them as good they are the incarnations of the destructive human traits anything they do brings harm. The desire demon seems to be giving that templar a good deal but that will only last until either the templars kill him or he dies from a lack of food and water which in turn robs him of the chance for him having a real family some day. The sloth demon is just lazy but it is evil and when ever they seem to do anything evil it is on a large scale such as the one in the mage circle or the one trading for fen which who knows how much damage he could cause.

Modifié par TheJist, 02 avril 2011 - 03:46 .

[Greed1914]

I'd say that some demons aren't as bad as others.  It does seem to vary, so Merrill is onto something there.  I had a hard time deciding what to do about that Templar and the Desire demon in the Ferelden tower since it didn't seem all that bad, but that was really a matter of long term illusions over outright possession.  So the goal was the same.  Sloth demons don't seem that bad simply because most are too lazy to be bothered.  It's not that they are inherently better, it's just that they don't have the motivation to be bad.

[LobselVith8]

The Rhyming Tree was an interesting character. A possessed Sylvan. Possible demon.

[Rifneno]

ME2 spoiler warning

Lithuasil wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

Are you refering to Morinth, or Legion?  Morinth is closer to a desire demon, but Legion is more of the "take one of what the player thinks all of are an enemy and make it an ally" notion.  Either one could fit.  Legion works out great, though I suppose it could turn out to be a twist in 3 I find it highly unlikely.  Morinth, the main problem with is that the story requires you to choose between her and a far better option regardless of Shepard's attitude.  If you could just take Morinth no questions asked, she wouldn't be as bad an option.  It fits the renegade persona.  Sure, you let her live and she'll kill many innocents.  But if she saves the day even once for Shepard, then lives beyond imagining will saved because of her.

I think the idea has some merit.  If Justice can be twisted to not be purely good, why can't a demon be twisted to not be purely evil?  I consider it a minor plot hole that demons aren't occasionally twisted good by their mortal hosts.  Not a sloth demon though... how could you trust one of those things to get off its bum and help in a fight?  That's why we rarely fight them in DA; they're too lazy to try and kill us.  I think a pride demon might work too.  If it's twisted so the pride it takes is in good things, it'd have to be at least neutral.

[Rifneno]

Torax wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

I took DA2's version of Morinth as that Blood Mage in the Brothel. So stabbed her in the cooch.

So...  does that mean you killed her, or you paid for an hour?

[Darth Krytie]

Rifneno wrote...

ME2 spoiler warning

Lithuasil wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

Are you refering to Morinth, or Legion?  Morinth is closer to a desire demon, but Legion is more of the "take one of what the player thinks all of are an enemy and make it an ally" notion. 

I think they're referring to what happens when you sleep with Morinth, tbh.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, demons are simply selfish and do what profits them. Sometimes that may involve making a templar feel good.
It's perfectly possible to think up a reason for a demon to follow main character. Remember Ya Zhen? He was so cute - "you'll die in a hundred years or so, so I'd happily work for you until then, and when you die I'll have eternity to feast upon this world". A Pride demon or a Desire demon would be a nice companion. But Sloth demon... He would simply sleep at camp and won't go anywhere.

[Cavalier753]

I read in a codex that Shades are a form of sloth demon. Never trust a demon no matter what is what I'm saying. Lazy or no. And that whole Templar/desire thing? He'll die from either her draining him, or his lack of food and water. And besides, what she gives the Templar is nothing but an illusion. A cruel lie.

[tonnactus]

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

A mage warden could do the deed with connors desire demon.(and still rescue the boy if the desire demon was sucessfully intimidated).

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I don't think that a Sloth demon would be too difficult to get it to fight as long as you let it sleep alot after the fight lol. I loved the Sloth-bear because he was so indifferent to everything that all you had to do was promise to leave him alone and he was perfectly happy to help you. If you could get a Sloth demon as a companion yoiu could promise it that after your main quest is over you'll find him a nice cave to sleep and I think he'd be happy to help.

[Lithuasil]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

ME2 spoiler warning

Lithuasil wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

A desire demon companion and LI would be awesome. AWESOME. Perhaps too awesome.

Because that worked so well in ME2 

Are you refering to Morinth, or Legion?  Morinth is closer to a desire demon, but Legion is more of the "take one of what the player thinks all of are an enemy and make it an ally" notion. 

I think they're referring to what happens when you sleep with Morinth, tbh.

This. (which is a shame really).

But then, I'm not against the idea in general. And I'd rather have a pride demon following me, then another Qunari. (Lesser of two evils and all that )

[Arppis]

Sooooo... If there is Sloth and Desire demons. Do they got ACTUAL function, rather than causing missery and harm to people?

[Tripedius]

I think sloth demons are just to lazy to fight, not that they don't want to cause harm.