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Is it a general consensus that Dragin Age 2 was a failure?


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#326
randName

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Savber100 wrote...

Bioware... MAKE A NEW ENGINE!

Or use Unreal 3 or Source or Cryengine (lol unlikely)... I don't freaking care just change the engine. >.<


They use Unreal for ME1&2, and its not like the Cryengine is owned by a competitor, so ~

I wish they would look at getting help with their render.

And EA also got frostbite 2.


(So just saying of all good engies that are out there, including id tech, there should be one engine that should at least work well with DA).

Modifié par randName, 07 avril 2011 - 04:50 .


#327
Obadiah

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sympathy4saren wrote...
...
Is it generally acknowledged that this game was a flop. Or what's the deal?
...

They're giving away copies of ME2 to boost PC sales aren't they? Sounds like QED to me.

Modifié par Obadiah, 07 avril 2011 - 04:59 .


#328
Dark83

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DA2 is (supposedly) selling better than DAO, so I don't see how it's a flop.

#329
Horus Blackheart

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DA2 is (supposedly) selling better than DAO, so I don't see how it's a flop.

that's like saying iron man 2 was high art (which its not)

#330
-Skorpious-

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Sales wise I cannot say, but the general consensus on these forums have been..pretty negative to say the least.

Personally, I agree with most of the users here. The game is (in my opinion) noticeably worse, and is obviously trying to cater to the casual "all action and no substance" CoD players. Yes, I feel confident (and in no way elitist) in saying this, as I was shocked an horrified when my casual gaming friend came over to play DA2, but was intent in skipping all the dialogue to jump immediately into the action.

Guess how long he played the game for? 1 hour. Has he picked it up since? No. One such scenario is obviously not enough to influence the direction of an entire series, but are these the kind of players you guys (namely EA) want as your core audience? Players who will probably never finish the game you spent HOURS of raw, brutal labor working on? Players who, in all likelihood, will casually brush DA2 aside to play the latest FPS?

Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions, but after playing both DA2 and ME2 I worry about Bioware's future as a respectable developer.

#331
Horus Blackheart

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-Skorpious- wrote...

Sales wise I cannot say, but the general consensus on these forums have been..pretty negative to say the least.

Personally, I agree with most of the users here. The game is (in my opinion) noticeably worse, and is obviously trying to cater to the casual "all action and no substance" CoD players. Yes, I feel confident (and in no way elitist) in saying this, as I was shocked an horrified when my casual gaming friend came over to play DA2, but was intent in skipping all the dialogue to jump immediately into the action.

Guess how long he played the game for? 1 hour. Has he picked it up since? No. One such scenario is obviously not enough to influence the direction of an entire series, but are these the kind of players you guys (namely EA) want as your core audience? Players who will probably never finish the game you spent HOURS of raw, brutal labor working on? Players who, in all likelihood, will casually brush DA2 aside to play the latest FPS?

Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions, but after playing both DA2 and ME2 I worry about Bioware's future as a respectable developer.

so much win in that post. you have my respect good sir/ madam

#332
AkiKishi

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-Skorpious- wrote...
 I was shocked an horrified when my casual gaming friend came over to play DA2, but was intent in skipping all the dialogue to jump immediately into the action.

Guess how long he played the game for? 1 hour. Has he picked it up since?


That's much the same reaction I got when showing it to someone I play Killzone with. "Too much talking that could not be skipped". Same person also tried FFXIII but go on better with it because the talking and the gameplay were more seperated.

#333
Dreg4life

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No, it's really hard to argue that most people think it's a decent game. It's just that for a lot of people, if a Bioware game isn't a masterpiece, it's crap. There's always been a lack of a middle ground among hardcore fans. Which is a shame, because it's causing them to brush aside a lot of fun and enjoyment that the game has to offer.

#334
Economist21

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I think its a little soon to say DA2 is a failure. Personally I prefer DAO because of the less "actiony" (I know its not a word) feel and the better story. The plot in DA2 never has any sense of risk or urgency which I didn't really care for.

I consider myself an action gamer in that I mostly play shooters and stealth action games. I played through DAO 4 times and loved every play-through because it was a unique experience unlike the rest of the games out there. DA2 to me feels more like Dante's Inferno with streamlined rpg elements.

That was a little disorganized but those are my thoughts on DA2.

#335
Horus Blackheart

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the game is fun ONCE. after that replay is a bit pointless to be honist

#336
Blue Face Beast

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Sales are going down it is obvious. They are now giving a free copy of Mass Effect 2 if you buy DA2. That does not bode well.

It is hard to believe that Bioware used to be such a successful company. Have they lost their touch or their freedom to create games that really were meant for PC users and RPG players?

I do not recognize Bioware signature when i played DA2. It was an ok game but after one playthrough i was done and bored with its combat and story...

If Bioware is reading this please look here ---> I personnaly would gladly pay 80$ just for a refitted version of Baldurs Gate 2. Yes, really, refit that game to support 1080p high rez and it beats your latest DA2 anytime in replay value and complexity.

Old ADnD ruleset and the hundred magic spells and magic items ( WITH lore and description ) beats your Ferelden lore and lame combat mechanic big time imho. Bring back the Forgotten Realms ASAP!

Just my 2 cents.

#337
AkiKishi

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Blue Face Beast wrote...

Sales are going down it is obvious. They are now giving a free copy of Mass Effect 2 if you buy DA2. That does not bode well.

It is hard to believe that Bioware used to be such a successful company. Have they lost their touch or their freedom to create games that really were meant for PC users and RPG players?

I do not recognize Bioware signature when i played DA2. It was an ok game but after one playthrough i was done and bored with its combat and story...

If Bioware is reading this please look here ---> I personnaly would gladly pay 80$ just for a refitted version of Baldurs Gate 2. Yes, really, refit that game to support 1080p high rez and it beats your latest DA2 anytime in replay value and complexity.

Old ADnD ruleset and the hundred magic spells and magic items ( WITH lore and description ) beats your Ferelden lore and lame combat mechanic big time imho. Bring back the Forgotten Realms ASAP!

Just my 2 cents.


You make a good point here, maybe without realising it.... Many of Biowares successful RPGs were made under other peoples rulesets.

#338
PretentiousCat

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88mphSlayer wrote...

it deserves criticism but not hate

i still enjoyed it tho


I paid my $60 and I can hate the game if I want to. It's my right as a consumer.
If you went into a restaraunt and got a very sub par meal. You'd say something,
or if not live with the consequences.

#339
Anthony772006

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I think Bioware knows how much of a failure this game was. And you can't really compare Skyrim side by side but  Skyrim will certainly crush DA2 in RPG of the year voting. I find it hard to believe DA2 will even be mentioned in any kind of voting.

Modifié par Anthony772006, 07 avril 2011 - 06:15 .


#340
lenkite

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-Skorpious- wrote...

Personally, I agree with most of the users here. The game is (in my opinion) noticeably worse, and is obviously trying to cater to the casual "all action and no substance" CoD players. Yes, I feel confident (and in no way elitist) in saying this, as I was shocked an horrified when my casual gaming friend came over to play DA2, but was intent in skipping all the dialogue to jump immediately into the action.

Guess how long he played the game for? 1 hour. Has he picked it up since? No. One such scenario is obviously not enough to influence the direction of an entire series, but are these the kind of players you guys (namely EA) want as your core audience? Players who will probably never finish the game you spent HOURS of raw, brutal labor working on? Players who, in all likelihood, will casually brush DA2 aside to play the latest FPS?

 

This is *so* very true as I had the exact same experience!!! I get the feeling that some EA manager might have put pressure on Bioware to 'expand' their audience or some such rot. Unfortunately, in trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one.

Modifié par spaceweaver, 07 avril 2011 - 06:47 .


#341
Dreg4life

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I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure. 

Modifié par Dreg4life, 07 avril 2011 - 06:52 .


#342
neppakyo

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Dreg4life wrote...

I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure. 


Good chunk of that (400 or close to 500,000) Were pre-orders, on faith from fans of DA:O.

And the 3rd week sales have plummeted dramatically, 4th week doesn't look promising either. (maybe a boost that they are bribing, er, offering a free 2 year old game).

and sales of DA:O have jumped up a bit now as well.

DA:O sold better from word of mouth than DA:2 has with its marketing.

#343
Stegoceras

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Dreg4life wrote...

I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure. 


True, but also consider the amount of goodwill the game creates. Part of DA2's sales where due to the popularity of DA:O. Will DA2 have the same do the same for DA3? To be honest, judging by the 50/50 nature of most reviews/user comments, I slightly doubt it.

#344
dfstone

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Forums don't tell you much though. For the most part people who are unhappy will come online and complain about it. People who are happy won't because they are busy playing the game.

#345
Gatt9

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BobSmith101 wrote...
You make a good point here, maybe without realising it.... Many of Biowares successful RPGs were made under other peoples rulesets.


Using other people's systems permits them to avoid the heavy workload of trying to design and test a system to make sure it works and is fun.  Using D&D or D20 let Bioware concentrate on content,  rather than trying to come up with a functioning system.

Judging from ME2's bland gameplay,  and DA2's DOA gameplay,  it's pretty clear that devising a working system is not Bioware's strong point.

Of course,  they're also being forced into unfamiliar territory,  Shooters and Marvel Ultimate Alliance's gameplay is foriegn to a studio that's been making RPGs all it's life.


I think Bioware knows how much of a failure this game was. And you can't really compare Skyrim side by side but  Skyrim will certainly crush DA2 in RPG of the year voting. I find it hard to believe DA2 will even be mentioned in any kind of voting.


People are waaaayyyy overestimating Skyrim. 

1.  Bethseda's been on a quest to remove anything that even remotely appears to be an RPG mechanic from their games since Morrowind.
2.  Zenimax took on enourmous debt to purchase several companies,  with only Bethseda releasing games.  ID hasn't released a game in 6 years.  Bethseda's the only revenue stream for 7 companies,  1 of which doesn't produce anything(Zenimax) and 1 of which is working on an MMO (Which are traditionally massive money consumers during development).  Skyrim is being released because Zenimax is overextended and needs revenue.  It'll likely turn out rushed and half-baked.

I would say we're looking at a Dark Horse race here.  The likely winner will be either Witcher 2,  Age of Decadence,  or Dead State.  With my money on Dead State for it's extremely novel setting (It's a Zombie Apocalypse survival RPG very influenced by Fallout).


I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure.


People keep putting that world "Sold" in there,  go back and reread Bioware's statement.  They don't claim to have Sold 1,000,000 units.  They only claimed to have moved them.

It's PR misspeak,  designed to let the reader assume something without using the word,  almost always used to mislead the reader into assuming some event occurred that didn't while staying away from statements that would cause SEC and Legal issues.

From what Bioware said,  all we can say is 1 million copies were moved somewhere.  They could've been moved from a warehouse to store shelves.  They could have been moved from EA Conference Room A to EA Conference Room B.

We cannot say 1 million copies were sold,  because it's actually pretty certain they weren't.  You don't use misspeak to say something that's true.  You don't use "Moved" to mean "Sold" if you Sold 1 million copies,  you use it if you have 1 million copies go somewhere but have not yet sold them.

So in truth,  what Bioware actually did say was that they have not yet succeeded in selling 1 million copies.

Modifié par Gatt9, 07 avril 2011 - 07:43 .


#346
Hawke123

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AlanC9 wrote...

I'm not sure we're actually in the business of coming to a general consensus here.

What's the metric for being a "flop"? Overall sales? Critic scores? Profitability?

As for Skyrim, I don't think Bio and Bethesda games are directly comparable. They don't realy try to do the same things.


The best way to measure it is by the Overall Fan's opinion.

The game could have sold 50 million copies but still doesn't mean it is a good game - it takes people a while to figure out their overall feelings about something.
Critic Scores are never good indications either - most appear to spend 4-5 hours with the game - not enough to reach a good conclusion.

The overall feeling of people? I'm 99% sure that the majority believe it to be a poor product (by BioWare standards)
Some people are blindly defending BioWare for some unfathomable reason. They may have really enjoyed the game, which is fine, but they seem to refuse to accept all the bad bits (questionable storylines, recycled maps, riddled with bugs, etc)

How will it compare to Skyrim the OP asks?
Skyrim won't be out for a few months but I'm 99% sure it will be better.
Why do I say this with no proof? Skyrims been in development for about 5 years I believe while DA2 was made in 1 year. I don't know how Skyrim could be worse if it has 4 more years of development than DA2

#347
Dark83

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Horus Blackheart wrote...

that's like saying iron man 2 was high art (which its not)

That's like saying apples and bananas.

Ie. a completely irrelevant and nonsensical response.

The critique and analysis of Bioware's "1 million" announcement is a better response.

Though I don't see how they would be able to know how many are sold, it isn't as if stores report back their sales - they'd only know from further shipment requests and returns. Aside from online sales, of course.

Account activations? Hm...

#348
1000questions

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Yup, registering your game, account activation and now why they are asking DA2 buyers to register DA2 in order to get ME2 free and then use DA2 passcode again to download/activate Cerberus Network dlc

#349
Nozybidaj

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Gatt9 wrote...
1.  Bethseda's been on a quest to remove anything that even remotely appears to be an RPG mechanic from their games since Morrowind.


LOL, that is pretty hilarious to read on a BW forum. :lol:

#350
Altima Darkspells

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neppakyo wrote...


And the 3rd week sales have plummeted dramatically, 4th week doesn't look promising either. (maybe a boost that they are bribing, er, offering a free 2 year old game).


Week 4 sales are about 2/3 of the Week 3 sales.

So around 60k Xbox DA2's went out during Week 3.  Week four is 40k.