579 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark83]

...
On the whole, I think DA2's Dialog Wheel is superior to Oblivion's Persuasion Wheel.

[Dreg4life]

Stegoceras wrote...

Dreg4life wrote...

I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure. 

True, but also consider the amount of goodwill the game creates. Part of DA2's sales where due to the popularity of DA:O. Will DA2 have the same do the same for DA3? To be honest, judging by the 50/50 nature of most reviews/user comments, I slightly doubt it.

The future existence of DA3 is predicated on the fact that DA2 was a success. So we'll know at the moment DA3 is announced whether 2 was lucrative or not.  

And DA2 didn't just match DA:O's sales. It surpasses them. All reviews I've seen online by professional reviews are in the range of great to excellent. If anything above 7.5 is a good game, I've not seen a negative review by any of the major outlets yet. And if negative fan reaction by an outspoken minority isn't effecting sales now, why would it effect the sales of a game years in the future when Dragon Age 2 is less fresh in their minds?

neppakyo wrote...

Dreg4life wrote...

I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure. 

Good chunk of that (400 or close to 500,000) Were pre-orders, on faith from fans of DA:O.

And the 3rd week sales have plummeted dramatically, 4th week doesn't look promising either. (maybe a boost that they are bribing, er, offering a free 2 year old game).

and sales of DA:O have jumped up a bit now as well.

DA:O sold better from word of mouth than DA:2 has with its marketing.

Dragon Age 1 sales increased because of a boost from Dragon Age 2? If DA1 was the sole purpose of DA2's sales, that doesn't make much sense. By that logic, everyone would have already played Dragon Age 1. Like it or not, DA2 is bringing a lot of new players into the Dragon Age universe. Another measure of success. Also, do you know what other game usually has a drop off in the third week of sales? Pretty much all of them. And don't forget, the free game offer applies to everybody who purchased the game already. As you yourself said, that's a LOT of preorders. I don't think the boost in future sales because of this promotion will be that huge, given ALL of those preorders and how many people ALREADY bought the game. To those people, it's not bribing, it's just a free bonus. It's highly, highly doubtful that this is a desparate sales ploy if they are offering the game to previous purchasers as well. Think about it, they have to sell twice as many copies now just to break even. That doesn't say "desperate" to me. That says "these people have money to burn."

Modifié par Dreg4life, 07 avril 2011 - 08:58 .

[Hawke123]

Dreg4life wrote...
The future existence of DA3 is predicated on the fact that DA2 was a success. So we'll know at the moment DA3 is announced whether 2 was lucrative or not.  

And DA2 didn't just match DA:O's sales. It surpasses them. All reviews I've seen online by professional reviews are in the range of great to excellent. If anything above 7.5 is a good game, I've not seen a negative review by any of the major outlets yet. And if negative fan reaction by an outspoken minority isn't effecting sales now, why would it effect the sales of a game years in the future when Dragon Age 2 is less fresh in their minds?

You're confusing ' a succesful game for a business' with 'a successful game for the players'

Like I said before, DA2 could have sold 50million but it still doesn't mean it is a good game at all. People have to play the game for a while before making a decent judgement of the game and most people buy the game before making this decision.

You also say you haven't seen any negative reviews by major outlets. I've seen plenty of negative reviews from smaller reveiwers, who I truly believe are more reliable because big reviewers are often influenced by money to give games good ratings and often spend a few hours playing them.

I wouldn't say the minority think the game is poor. I would actually say the majority of people would say the game is average at best.

[Tommy6860]

Dreg4life wrote...

To those people, it's not bribing, it's just a free bonus. It's highly, highly doubtful that this is a desparate sales ploy if they are offering the game to previous purchasers as well. Think about it, they have to sell twice as many copies now just to break even. That doesn't say "desperate" to me. That says "these people have money to burn."

Show me a precedent where within just a few weeks of a major game's release, where the publisher/developer offered another of its own AAA titles for free, with the purchase or previous pre-ordered purchase of the newly released game.

[Yard Waste]

Read alot of negative and hate posts after I bought the game, and I delayed installing it. I installed the game a few days agos and found that the most of the negative comments weren't justified, some were. Sure the game has it's flaws, but over all it's a game and I have been having FUN playing it. That's why I play games, a few hours of relaxation, escape from the daily grind. The added bonus of a free ME2 (wanted it but never bought it) was icing on the cake.
I find that the quite a few of the people complaining about the game would also find a way of whining about a Million $$$$$ lottery they had just won for some reason or another.

Modifié par Yard Waste, 07 avril 2011 - 09:39 .

[Wra1thstouch]

Romantiq wrote...

Zan Mura wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

DA2 has awesome graphics? HAHAHAHA
 
Stopped reading right there son

DA2 is a pretty game, and I can say this with a high-end rig that's been doing all the games so far (well I haven't tested the new Crysis 2) with the highest settings. Maybe "awesome" is overstating it, but they're good. But it's ok, why pass a perfectly good excuse to behave like a child and insult someone just because you can, right? 

These are just for comparison purposes. Take a look at their detalization, vegetation, light, and overall graphics.











and just for quick comparison and perhaps lulz



DA2 is far from pretty. Your standards are too low.
In addition to weak art style and visuals, the game had way too many other flaws such; story, awful level design, dumbed down character interactions, race limitations / design (no fem dwarves, anorexic elves), itemization, lack of choices that matter and so on and on. Funny how people currently complain about elves being anorexic in the mmo Rift. They must have not seen DA2 elves yet to truly understand ugly.

Maybe you have an inferior machine for the DA2 engine:









lol

Modifié par Wra1thstouch, 07 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[Gatt9]

Dreg4life wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Dreg4life wrote...

I mean, you sell a million copies and outpace the first game in terms of revenue, and it's hard to write any game off as a failure. 

True, but also consider the amount of goodwill the game creates. Part of DA2's sales where due to the popularity of DA:O. Will DA2 have the same do the same for DA3? To be honest, judging by the 50/50 nature of most reviews/user comments, I slightly doubt it.

The future existence of DA3 is predicated on the fact that DA2 was a success. So we'll know at the moment DA3 is announced whether 2 was lucrative or not.  

And DA2 didn't just match DA:O's sales. It surpasses them. All reviews I've seen online by professional reviews are in the range of great to excellent. If anything above 7.5 is a good game, I've not seen a negative review by any of the major outlets yet. And if negative fan reaction by an outspoken minority isn't effecting sales now, why would it effect the sales of a game years in the future when Dragon Age 2 is less fresh in their minds?

1.  There are no sales numbers for DA2 yet.  The only thing Bioware has announced is that they moved 1 million copies from somewhere to somewhere,  they have not said anything about how many copies they've sold.  From there,  refer to my last post on why it means that Bioware has not sold 1 million copies yet.

2.  There's a strange thing about ratings.  When you have a 0-10 system,  7.5 is very good.  When you have a system that is only 7-10,  once you've condensed,  7.5 works out to about a 3.  When you have a system that's clearly manipulated,  it becomes irrelevant.  Escapist gave the game 10/10,  and several sites gave it 9/10.  TBH,  no matter your preferences,  to think DA2 is worth those scores requires a fairly significant amount of Hallucinogenics.  Never mind that we now know Bioware and EA's ethics permits them to skew review scores.  So,  to be blunt,  the professional review scores are now worthless.  Which also explains ME2's scores and it's awards.

3.  I doubt highly Bioware will be here for a DA3.  Too many games being played with ratings,  too little quality in their latest offerings,  and alienating fans left and right.  Personally,  I expect ME3 will tank hard as well. 

4.  It's not a minority.

Modifié par Gatt9, 08 avril 2011 - 12:35 .

[leeboi2]

No, it got good reviews, it's just the cry baby fans that thing its bad...

[Stegoceras]

leeboi2 wrote...

No, it got good reviews, it's just the cry baby fans that thing its bad...

Depends on where you look, there is actually quite a few bad reviews and before you claim these are all haters, there are actually many serious reviews among them. I for one thoroughly agreed with the 7 it got on the review of the magazine I read, stating that it simply is the worst bioware game of the last years. Mind you a 7 doesn't make it a bad game but it's hardly noteworthy either and especially not what we'd come to expect from Bioware.

and before you go on that I let myself be influenced by what others think, I actaully played the game before I read the article (because it was postponed a month due to EA/Bioware unwilling to provide the magazine with a reviewers code) and can honestly say I was hardly impressed by the game.

That said calling us cry babies does little to proof your point.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's all please remember that name-calling and insults are not permitted in our forums. Thank you.

[Morroian]

Gatt9 wrote...

4.  It's not a minority.

Based on what?

[inkjay]

Yard Waste wrote...

 Sure the game has it's flaws, but over all it's a game and I have been having FUN playing it. That's why I play games, a few hours of relaxation, escape from the daily grind.

Yeah, waves and waves of enemies appearing out of thin air for the single reason of extending the time in combat sure is fun. Revisiting the same cave/mine/dungeon for the tenth time to do the same boring fetch quests sure is fun as well as running around a boring uninhabited city with nothing interesting to do; cameos for the sake of cameos that override your decisions of the previous game sounds like fun to me!

I love how you can escape from the "daily grind" into another massive boring grind... probably says a lot about your quality of life

[Il Divo]

Morroian wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

4.  It's not a minority.

Based on what?

This. Much like the sales numbers, I'm curious how anyone can determine whether the majority of DA2 fans think the game 'tanked'.

[noneofyourbussines77]

Dragon Age 2 was not a bad game by any means, it had decent graphics, action packed combat, interesting stroy, good companions and wieghty choices. The problem is that Dragon Age Origins was longer, had a better story, had more meaningful choices, and better companions

[Gatt9]

Il Divo wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

4.  It's not a minority.

Based on what?

This. Much like the sales numbers, I'm curious how anyone can determine whether the majority of DA2 fans think the game 'tanked'.

Gamespot player ratings,  IGN player ratings,  Metacritic player ratings,  Amazon.com feedback,  there's plenty of evidence out there that it isn't a couple people.

Also,  please not,  I did not at any point state it was a "Majority",  you placed that word there.  All I said was that it isn't a minority.  I made no such claims about being a consensus.

Regardless,  since we now can be relatively certain the game did not sell 1,000,000 units yet,  we can state there's a high probability that the game tanked.  Bioware's announcement very specifically avoided using the word "Sold",  instead using the word "Moved".  This is because they want the reader to assume "Sold",  but they cannot use the word because if it hadn't,  they would have major problems.  As a publicly traded company,  they are subject to rules of false press statements,  and would suffer SEC penalties and potentially shareholder legal action.

Since they specifically avoided using the word "Sold",  it's a very strong likelyhood that DA2 hasn't managed to sell well,  further evidenced by them giving away a game that's certain to continue selling small quantities just to bolster sales of DA2.

DAO sold 3.2 million units,  so there's a very strong invested customer base to market to,  and it looks like they chose to pass on it.

So by virtue of those three things,  we can state there's a high probability that DA2 has failed,  and that those who dislike the game's new direction are not a minority.

[Boiny Bunny]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Dreg4life wrote...

To those people, it's not bribing, it's just a free bonus. It's highly, highly doubtful that this is a desparate sales ploy if they are offering the game to previous purchasers as well. Think about it, they have to sell twice as many copies now just to break even. That doesn't say "desperate" to me. That says "these people have money to burn."

Show me a precedent where within just a few weeks of a major game's release, where the publisher/developer offered another of its own AAA titles for free, with the purchase or previous pre-ordered purchase of the newly released game.

Exactly - please give multiple examples (at least 30, given how certain you are).

Did you know that Nintendo are making millions every year from SNES games on the virtual console part of the Wii?

Rule of thumb in business: There is no free lunch.  Not for companies.  Not for customers.  Or anybody in between.

A business will never, ever, give something away for free to its customers without an ulterior motive.  In this case, the motive is to increase DA2 sales, which are now stagnating greatly, and to hopefully reverse some of the reputational damage caused by the release of this game, such as to not lose future sales such as ME3.

[Boiny Bunny]

Morroian wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

4.  It's not a minority.

Based on what?

What makes you think it isn't a minority?

There is no evidence either way, except in the sales.  And we'll have to wait quite awhile before any real conclusions can be drawn from the sales...

[Morroian]

Gatt9 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

4.  It's not a minority.

Based on what?

This. Much like the sales numbers, I'm curious how anyone can determine whether the majority of DA2 fans think the game 'tanked'.

Gamespot player ratings,  IGN player ratings,  Metacritic player ratings,  Amazon.com feedback,  there's plenty of evidence out there that it isn't a couple people.

All self selected and thus completely unreliable. I come on here and discuss it but I've never been tempted to take part in a poll on it. Plus the metacritic rankings were clearly the subject of an organised attempt to drive it down. 

Gatt9 wrote...

Also,  please not,  I did not at any point state it was a "Majority",  you placed that word there.  All I said was that it isn't a minority.  I made no such claims about being a consensus.

If it isn't a minority what is it? Its either close to equal or a majority. Neither of which is supported by anything. The vast majority of buyers don't do those polls or even discuss it on internet forums and there's nothing to indicate what the majority opinion is. 

Gatt9 wrote...

Regardless,  since we now can be relatively certain the game did not sell 1,000,000 units yet,  we can state there's a high probability that the game tanked.

Again an assumption on no evidence. People used to go on and on about DAO being BW's largest selling title and how could they go the ME2 route which wasn't, these claims have now been shown to be false because they were based on people making assumptions on incomplete information.

Modifié par Morroian, 08 avril 2011 - 03:43 .

[Morroian]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

4.  It's not a minority.

Based on what?

What makes you think it isn't a minority?

There is no evidence either way, except in the sales.  And we'll have to wait quite awhile before any real conclusions can be drawn from the sales...

I'm not saying its not a minority, I don't know what the consensus is. I'm saying a conclusion can't be drawn on the info that is available as you say.

[Valethar]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I've heard (and understand) a lot of the negative feedback. Is it generally acknowledged that this game was a flop. Or what's the deal? And will DA2 stand a chance against Skyrim in a one-on-one comparison when its all said and done?

Love the game. Hate the bugs and the general lack of anything being done about them.

Not quite willing to call it a failure.

Yet.

[Zan Mura]

Gatt9 wrote...
... to be blunt,  the professional review scores are now worthless.  Which also explains ME2's scores and it's awards.

I agree with review scores being worthless. I've seen enough games I've played get reviews that are borderline lies. There are opinions, of course, hard to debate them. But when facts are skewed and distorted, things that you can prove are not so, that gives reason for doubt. APB had that problem. While a lot of that game was open to debate, some previously respected review sources flat out lied about a lot of features that simply were not so. It was nowhere near deserving of the 3-5 / 10 scores that it got.

3.  I doubt highly Bioware will be here for a DA3.  Too many games being played with ratings,  too little quality in their latest offerings,  and alienating fans left and right.  Personally,  I expect ME3 will tank hard as well.

You can't do that, pick a few games that suit your theories and ignore the rest, all out of context. Remember that Jade Empire was very streamlined with its RPG features, KOTOR wasn't exactly complex either, not to mention Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. And yet, then we get DAO. The most complex game since BG2. A game that sold well too, and received high praise for its return to the basics of real roleplaying games. That's recent news, and breaks this pattern you seem to see. If anything, the criticism and disappointments with DA2 only further reinforces the idea that too much streamlining will NOT work, that more effort must be put in, and that DAO's style is closer to what people really want.

I have fears about BW's future too, but they have little to do with the direction BW is heading for with their games. Especially now when DA2 was sure to slap them back to their tracks. My fears concern the insane risk they're taking with SWTOR, in a market that's famous for tanking even very good ideas. MMO's are by their nature an extremely volatile, extremely risky business.

My fears also concern ME3, because BW made a mistake with ME2 by giving too many alternate endings that set out to disappoint people to begin with: first creating a story with the primary focus on squadmates and getting to know them and invest into them emotionally. Then slap on that an ending that makes sure people will NOT get to play with those same squadmates in ME3 due to too many variations. Sure, it was a unique and fun idea for ME2, not so much when you have to pay the consequences in ME3 and see that your best friends and romance partners have become cameos much like the ME1 potential dead did in ME2. Furthermore, the whole "Reapers are invading earth" theme in ME3 sounds very anti-climactic to me, but that's just opinion of course.

And last but not least, I fear the influence of EA. This is a company that does NOT have a good reputation, and if there's one thing that can permanently ruin BioWare, it's EA. By forcing them to push out generalized crap at a fast pace to milk money as fast as possible, ruining the spirit of the devs and the faith of the fans, until less than half of the original BW team remains and the company has become a dying shadow of what it used to be.

Regardless, there's nothing any of us can do about any of this so why worry? What happens, happens. For now, BW is still the best RPG dev company on the planet in my opinion. One momentary lapse like DA2 won't change that.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 08 avril 2011 - 06:04 .

[Edhriano]

Well, I already know I will wait 3 or maybe 4 months before I buy DA3 (if ever release).
I would prefer to trust the opinion of friend(s) who actually play it then trust a magazine review.
Don't underestimate the power of mouth 2 mouth review . ...

Then, IF and only IF those friend(s) actually give good comment, then I might actually buy it.

Regards .

[Onemorewave]

leeboi2 wrote...

No, it got good reviews, it's just the cry baby fans that thing its bad...

Oh hey Leeboi the fanboi, how goes your day of Bioware anus sniffing?

[mdugger12]

It's amazing that this thread just keeps chugging along. DA 2 isn't close to being a failure. If you personally believe this game didn't live up to your expectations thats a totally separate matter. The game is selling fine, the reviews are generally positive, and most of the fans are generally pleased. Just let it go.