579 réponses à ce sujet

[The Train]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I've heard (and understand) a lot of the negative feedback. Is it generally acknowledged that this game was a flop. Or what's the deal? And will DA2 stand a chance against Skyrim in a one-on-one comparison when its all said and done?

there is no consensus.  a consensus is when everyone agrees (hence no need to say "general consensus").

there are entrenched positions.  there are unabashed lovers of this game who can't comprehend why anyone would dislike it.

there are vitriolic haters of this game who see nothing good about it.

there are those who basically like it, with reservations, and their counterparts:  those who dislike it, with some caveats.

that said, among those who have criticized portions of the game, there is some agreement on its flaws.  but no, no agreement on whether or not it was a flop.  in fact, i would say there is no agreement on how we would define what it means for it to be a flop or on what terms to say it is or is not a success.  so we not only lack consensus around its status as flop, we lack consensus on how we would establish whether or not it was a flop.

[ZombiePowered]

There is such a lack of consensus here. Where is Legion when we need him!?

[Sabriana]

TES and DA are two different kind of animals, so I don't think a comparison works here.

I think that DA 2 was a rush job, with many, many cut corners, and quite a few RPG elements simply fell by the wayside because of the rush job/cut corners. It tried to please fans from different ends of a spectrum, and failed them all. No one can stretch that much and not fall into the 'average' for both.

I learned my lesson in that I will never again blindly buy anything simply because of the developer name. I bought on reputation and expectation, and got smacked in the face. That will never happen again.

There are many things I like about DA 2, but those got vastly overshadowed by mediocrity, and downright silliness. Is DA 2 a failure? From the viewpoint what it could have been, given the stellar work that bioware designers are capable of, yes it is, in my personal opinion. Is it a failure as far as sales go? I can't say, because it just came out, and there are no reliable sales figures yet to compare it to other games of the same genre.

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being "absolute crap", 5 being "meh, average" and 10 being "brilliant", I'd give it a 6.5. It's a cute little puppy of a game. Nothing more, nothing less, imo.

[brightblueink]

No, I don't think so. While the game hasn't gotten AWESOME reviews, it still has a 77.49% at the lowest on Game Rankings and a 79 on Meta Critic. (for the Xbox 360 version, the PS3 and PC versions have higher reviews that put them over 80%.) That's mixed but overall positive reviews--if you go on that alone, at least, the average review seems to be "flawed, but still good."

Maybe here on the forums the majority of the people posting think it's a "failure", but the people on the Bioware forums only represent a small section of the players--and from what I've seen, even here on the forums there's plenty of people (like myself) that really like the game.

Modifié par brightblueink, 02 avril 2011 - 06:46 .

[Melca36]

I don't think its a failure but it could have been a better game that what it is.

[Otterwarden]

The Train wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

I've heard (and understand) a lot of the negative feedback. Is it generally acknowledged that this game was a flop. Or what's the deal? And will DA2 stand a chance against Skyrim in a one-on-one comparison when its all said and done?

there is no consensus.  a consensus is when everyone agrees (hence no need to say "general consensus").

there are entrenched positions.  there are unabashed lovers of this game who can't comprehend why anyone would dislike it.

there are vitriolic haters of this game who see nothing good about it.

there are those who basically like it, with reservations, and their counterparts:  those who dislike it, with some caveats.

that said, among those who have criticized portions of the game, there is some agreement on its flaws.  but no, no agreement on whether or not it was a flop.  in fact, i would say there is no agreement on how we would define what it means for it to be a flop or on what terms to say it is or is not a success.  so we not only lack consensus around its status as flop, we lack consensus on how we would establish whether or not it was a flop.

Well said.  The only consensus we have reached is that there is no consensus.

[Otterwarden]

ZombiePowered wrote...

There is such a lack of consensus here. Where is Legion when we need him!?

Awesome:D

[88mphSlayer]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

it deserves criticism but not hate

i still enjoyed it tho

And neither does it deserve to blindly defend BioWare.

does any company deserve it?

[Chromie]

ZombiePowered wrote...

There is such a lack of consensus here. Where is Legion when we need him!?

"Building a consenus right now"

or "Working on some calibrations" - Garrus

[didymos1120]

ZombiePowered wrote...

There is such a lack of consensus here. Where is Legion when we need him!?

Legion's down in the AI core, still trying to reach one.  It's all I ever hear from that damn geth anymore: "We are building a consensus.  Please try again later."  Jerk.  Or rather, jerks.  Should have Garrus do some "calibrations".

[Alpr]

I was going to link you to the enjoy-o-meter thread but I cannot seem to find it right now lol, but basically no it is not a flop. On that thread, the most voted-for score is a 9 out of like...200+ votes

Modifié par Alpr, 02 avril 2011 - 07:43 .

[Merced652]

Bioware Rickrolled me for 60 dollars, no company has done that to me since Age of Blownan.

Modifié par Merced652, 02 avril 2011 - 08:00 .

[Joush]

Many fans and critics feel the game has serious flaws. With serious features omitted and lied about and broken systems, it's also a mess right now. (See: Auto attack, importing saves, quest, ect).

There is no consensus, but it's getting heavy negative press that Origins and the Mass Effect games haven't faced, and at least a few fans have canceled preorders for bioware games and put off buying other projects with the idea that it would be better to wait for a couple patches and buy it used.

[capt.krappy]

Baelyn wrote...

Kel_Sjet wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
As far as SWTOR: you keep stating this like you actually know what will happen.  You don't.  No one does. 

Oh I do. And when it does, I will come back to these same here forums, find you, and show you this post and make you eat your words.

How do I know?
Well, lets just say that I will not jeopardize someones job just to 'prove' something to a faceless anon on the interwebs. Especially one that has his face and faith so far up Bioware's rear end that he is blind to anything negative said about his precious.

Did no one else find this post as humorous as I did? Really?

LOL

Yeah, I did. The comment on his "precious" was fantastic.  

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Merced652 wrote...

Bioware Rickrolled me for 60 dollars, no company has done that to me since Age of Blownan.

$60 dollars was that for one of the expensive sets?

I've bought poor games in the past, and just put them down to experience, though id never buy a collectors set upon release until i'd played the game abit.

[Atardecer]

DA2 is priced the same as DA:O although it offers at least 20 hours less gameplay, as well as as having no significant additions, but many elements of DA:O removed. Is it a rip off? Perhaps overstating it, but it certainly should not cost the same. The price should reflect the effort gone into the game. In that sense, very disappointing EA and Bioware. They are capitalising on the good faith of those who bought DA:O to some degree. Mutton dressed as lamb, so to speak.

Modifié par Atardecer, 02 avril 2011 - 08:46 .

[Elanareon]

Yes, it always does when you turn your back on fans...

[goering]

It is generally regarded as a HUGE FINANCIAL SUCCESS!

Think about it: Nearly the same amount of copies sold as Dragon Age Origins after 3 weeks .... but they developed it in less than a 4th of the time.

[ToJKa1]

From what i've seen it's commonly agreed here that the game is good, but not up to BioWare's usual standards. Then there are the extremists; "there is not a single good thing about this game" and "best BioWare game to date".

Personally i find it good, but not as good as Origins. I'd rate it "not a rip-off", whereas Origins was "Suckers, you sold this for only for 50€!?"

[capt.krappy]

Ok, I have read pretty much this entire thread and played the game enough to feel like stepping into this quagmire of opinon. I think everyone is correct to a certain amount AND THAT ALONE is enough to give this game a 6 or 7 on a scale of 10. This game is NOT DA-O. We wanted it to be and there's the disapointment. Certain things, graphics and speed or cool and interesting. But, myself, and it seems many others, long for the ability to get invested with the NPC's. We lost our ability to customize our party to what WE wanted. There's no reason to care, and that seems to be what's wrong with the game more that anything else. Even my hound is wrong. As soon as I took a look at him, I knew something was wrong. I'd bring him along sometimes just to hear Morgana complain or so that I could stop to pet. Yeah, I know, strange. But, my point is...my party really became my friends and not interchangable parts. THAT's what's missing and on that point it's a failure.

[Talogrungi]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I love the game, but I don't turn a blind eye to its weak points. If we don't post about them then nothing will change in the patches or DA3. I don't get it the whole "criticism is complaining and whining" either. Stupid people.

This is how I see it also. I enjoyed the game; I've already gotten my moneys worth for it (in comparison to other games) so I would absolutely not consider the game to be a failure, however it certainly deserves some (and I stress, some) of the criticism levelled at it.

Constructive criticism is a positive thing; it shows that we care about the franchise and the developer.

[Vollkeule]

i would say it is still a complete failure because of bugs... those realy annoy me so that i do not want to play. if they fix them it would be an average game which is still inferiour to the original DA.

[Iwasdrunkbro]

Bioware let down the people that pay their salary to rush a game out the door for a quick buck. What more can be said? Is it a bad game? No, but its still rushed and its still aimed towards people that simply dont want to play RPGs.

I cannot wrap my head around WHY Bioware would go against Origins especially when it did so well. Its bad business.. but to cut corners and rush a game out just to make a quick buck, is a slap in the face to their customers and I for one dont appreciate it.

[asaiasai]

CaptainSpandex wrote...

Depends on how you measure failure.

DA2 might sell more copies than Origins. Especially with that astronomical advertising budget they've got. But that's just it. Those few extra sales, tempered by the extremely negative word-of-mouth that's built around this game... and then measured against the huge advertising expenditures...

At that point, 'failure' begins to sound like an apt descriptor.

I do not think DA2 will or could be considered a failure because DA2 will mouthe all the correct "execu-speak" words. Shorter hence cheaper development time. It has sold well because of cashing in on the DAO franchise, and in the short term DA2 will be measured a success. The problem is in the long term folks like me who considered DA2 as a pre order and cancelled right after playing the demo (betcha they will not release a demo next time, sorry folks) will more than likely make a note of  DA3 as the game to watch hit 20 bucks and then buy. Which is exactly how i will deal with ME3 after geting burned by ME2. Things like DLC armors which the helmets can not be removed, the limited customization options for character and crew, the minimized talent trees where every character yours or mine is exactly identical kind of ****, where the player is reduced to observer as opposed to the REASON the game is supposed to exist in the first place. @Bioware Hawke is your character, the NPCs also belong to you, the world is yours, the story is yours, at the end there is not much left for me to do but navigate and well being Hawke's or Shepard's GPS is not something i will pay full price for.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 02 avril 2011 - 09:09 .

[rak72]

Atardecer wrote...

DA2 is priced the same as DA:O although it offers at least 20 hours less gameplay, as well as as having no significant additions, but many elements of DA:O removed. Is it a rip off? Perhaps overstating it, but it certainly should not cost the same. The price should reflect the effort gone into the game. In that sense, very disappointing EA and Bioware. They are capitalising on the good faith of those who bought DA:O to some degree. Mutton dressed as lamb, so to speak.

I concur.
DaO kept me entertained for a year, DA2 - 1.5 weeks.  I feel gypped.