126 réponses à ce sujet

[MICHELLE7]

David Gaider wrote...

OMG BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER

:lol:First thing I thought when I saw the thread title.

[Icy Magebane]

Let me start by saying I have accepted that retcons are going to happen and that fans can't prevent or change them. It's better to just accept it and move on.

My problem is with people claiming some kind of legitimate reason for Leliana's resurrection, specifically this Urn business. First of all, the Urn was defiled, therefore the ashes held no magic. Secondly, let's not even talk about deathblows. If the Warden kills somebody, especially a highly skilled rogue who he knows to be incredibly cunning, he's going to make sure that she's dead before leaving the room. So people can sit here and claim whatever they want about her not really being dead, but the simple fact is that no competent Warden would have made that kind of mistake. Leliana died and since Bioware has a better story in mind for her being alive, they've decided to bring her back. It happens all the time in stories, so just stop defending it and accept it for what it is: a retcon.

Whatever reason they give for the resurrection, if they give any at all, will determine whether or not it's logical. I find it more likely that her death will never be mentioned. After all, they didn't design DA2 to reflect this decision, so why spend any time on defending it? Leliana was popular, she seemed to fit into the role of Seeker, so they went with it... end of story. I don't see why people refuse to see that simple truth.

[_Aine_]

The end of the game, especially, smacks of the fantastical, to me anyway. I don't call it a retcon though. That is just Varric being Varric Cassandra just missed calling him on much of it. lol Let's put it this way, I would be more surprised if it *wasn't* a tall tale than if it was. =)

[LPPrince]

David Gaider wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Mr. Gaider, how do mommy qunari and daddy qunari make baby qunari?

With two forks, a pencil and a lot of gumption.

Thankies.

[Bayz]

At the end of the day we will discover in Dragon Age 5 that everything was a dream a guy in coma had with Varric's voice in the background saying

"what are you waiting for? go to the internet and rant"

Modifié par Bayz, 02 avril 2011 - 02:22 .

[LobselVith8]

I think it's more an issue of why they give us a choice to make a decision if they're simply going to contradict it later on, Bayz. I don't think anyone is under the delusion that the developers care that choice is removed from us in this regard, nor do I think they will change it.

[Dasha Dreyson]

My friends and I kept waiting for Keanu Reeves to wake up next to Bob Newhart and say "woah."

So anyway, yeah I expect Varric to be telling Cassandra the information that is most convenient. Even if he did know where Hawke was, I think he'd lie about it so that Hawke could make up Hawke's own mind. Though I can't help but imagine that everyone who's earned a hero/champion title has made a colony on the isles and is basking in the sun. Afterall, there is at least one war going on with the threat of at least one other. Time to get out of Dodge... or rule the world; take your pick.

[WhiteKnyght]

How Qunari mate. My guess would be that the Tamassrans pair couples off based on their abilities. The strongest, smartest, most loyal probably produce the best children.

David Gaider wrote...

Now I just feel old. Thanks for that.

You can always do what my dad does. Say "I may be old, but I'm not dead yet". lol

[Arppis]

DanteCousland wrote...

Whatever happens Bioware please don't go "well you see that bit didn't really happen, Varric made it up". I thought DA2 was pretty average but it having something abverage is better than having nothing at all. Personally I think it may just be called into action for retcons in a future game.

"Hawke was really a man, but I wish that he would have been a beautiful woman..."

This is propably what happens to everyone who played female and import their saves to DA3.

[Aradace]

LobselVith8 wrote...

If they decide to change something (like they rectonned Leliana's death, Oghren's death, Anders and Justice) they have an excuse now. I don't think there's anything we can do about it.

Yea, IMO, any time you "retcon" a character's death, you can attribute it to one of two things:
A.)Laziness on the writer's behalf or
B.)Fanservice
In this case, I think it was a combonation of both A and B.  Which has me worried for anything story wise in DA3.  In Origins, I actually gave some thought to the decisions I made.  In DA2, I just kind of laughed and shrugged every time I was posed with any kind of seemingly important decision.  Why? Because no matter what I decide, it's likely it isnt going to matter in DA3.  Here's what I see BW doing in DA3;  Observing the "popular" decisions made by the player base and applying them as the "canon" (so to speak) for DA3 and not giving two s**ts about the rest of the player bases decisions.  To which, will lead to even more instances like Leliana being miraculously resurrected.  Sorry, but that one just left a really bad taste in my mouth.  If felt like nothing more than cheap fanservice and laziness on the writer's behalf.  Not only that, it felt "soap opera'ish".  Seriously, if the writers are going to pull bs like that, why even give the players ANY choice at all?  Oh....wait....They didnt in DA2, because no matter what you do at the end, you STILL have to fight BOTH the first enchanter AND Meredith. 

So in all honesty, DA3 will most likely be a full on JRPG.  Which, I wont mind too much as long as they take out all the dialog choices ect. as well.  Because if you're going to do a JRPG, you may as well go full monty and make it more like a movie than a game.  At least it'll be a better JRPG than anything Square/Enix has produced in the last 10 years lol.

/rant off.

[WhiteKnyght]

Aradace wrote...

So in all honesty, DA3 will most likely be a full on JRPG.  Which, I wont mind too much as long as they take out all the dialog choices ect. as well.  Because if you're going to do a JRPG, you may as well go full monty and make it more like a movie than a game.  At least it'll be a better JRPG than anything Square/Enix has produced in the last 10 years lol.

/rant off.

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

And Dragon Age Origin's whole horde of evil monsters lead by an even bigger and badder monster and a world that's controlled by a religion that is corrupt and likely lying to it's followers has been done in JRPG's plenty of times.

Bioware bashes JRPGs but they sure copy them a lot.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 02 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[Aradace]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Aradace wrote...

So in all honesty, DA3 will most likely be a full on JRPG.  Which, I wont mind too much as long as they take out all the dialog choices ect. as well.  Because if you're going to do a JRPG, you may as well go full monty and make it more like a movie than a game.  At least it'll be a better JRPG than anything Square/Enix has produced in the last 10 years lol.

/rant off.

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

And Dragon Age Origin's whole horde of evil monsters lead by an even bigger and badder monster and a world that's controlled by a religion that is corrupt and likely lying to it's followers has been done in JRPG's plenty of times.

Bioware bashes JRPGs but they sure copy them a lot.

Precisely the point lol.  The only difference is they hide behind "dialog choices" and claim that because of that, it's different somehow.  So why not just go full blown with DA3 and remove dialog choices altogether yea? lol

[The Angry One]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

[NeroSparda]

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

According to Wiki, Star Ocean 3 is an alternate universe and thus does not exist in the Star Ocean canon.

[The Angry One]

NeroSparda wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

According to Wiki, Star Ocean 3 is an alternate universe and thus does not exist in the Star Ocean canon.

I've never heard of that, I gave up on the series long ago.
But honestly if they want to retcon that terrible plot out it wouldn't surprise me.

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

Now I just feel old. Thanks for that.

People who were ten when Pokimon came out have just finished grad school.

[Rifneno]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Aradace wrote...

So in all honesty, DA3 will most likely be a full on JRPG.  Which, I wont mind too much as long as they take out all the dialog choices ect. as well.  Because if you're going to do a JRPG, you may as well go full monty and make it more like a movie than a game.  At least it'll be a better JRPG than anything Square/Enix has produced in the last 10 years lol.

/rant off.

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

And Dragon Age Origin's whole horde of evil monsters lead by an even bigger and badder monster and a world that's controlled by a religion that is corrupt and likely lying to it's followers has been done in JRPG's plenty of times.

Bioware bashes JRPGs but they sure copy them a lot.

....

So yeah.  Do you guys also ever wonder if Shakespeare released Romeo and Juliet only to hear people grumble, "Gee, a story about two people who fall in love.  Where have I heard THAT before?"

[Arppis]

Rifneno wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Aradace wrote...

So in all honesty, DA3 will most likely be a full on JRPG.  Which, I wont mind too much as long as they take out all the dialog choices ect. as well.  Because if you're going to do a JRPG, you may as well go full monty and make it more like a movie than a game.  At least it'll be a better JRPG than anything Square/Enix has produced in the last 10 years lol.

/rant off.

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

And Dragon Age Origin's whole horde of evil monsters lead by an even bigger and badder monster and a world that's controlled by a religion that is corrupt and likely lying to it's followers has been done in JRPG's plenty of times.

Bioware bashes JRPGs but they sure copy them a lot.

....

So yeah.  Do you guys also ever wonder if Shakespeare released Romeo and Juliet only to hear people grumble, "Gee, a story about two people who fall in love.  Where have I heard THAT before?"

I do a lot of stuff just to hear people grumble too! Quite fun.

[The Angry One]

Dude everybody knows Romeo and Juliet was a complete ripoff of Final Fantasy 8.

[LadyVaJedi]

Well I just turned 39 on March 16 and DA2 was an early bday gift for myself and so far I didnt feel old until the Dallas comment. I graduated from HS in 91.

[Bathead]

Hell, if Marvel Comics can bring back Bucky Barnes, Bioware should be able to bring back Leliana.
I'm just sayin' is all.

[greyman33]

David Gaider wrote...

OMG BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER

Thanks for that moment of nostalgia... I think.  Feeling pretty old myself now.  I will say that since reading that I've had the old (though relatively speaking, not so much) South Park episode with Scuzzlebut out of my head.  I just keep hearing Cartamn talking about his Patrick Duffey leg.

On a somewhat more serious note, I'm hoping that by screaming this reply in all caps you're telling us that you and the other writers and designers don't plan to do too much in the way of handwaving events away as 'Varric's creative license".  That move on Dallas was universally panned as one of the biggest cop outs in television history.  If they'd pulled a move like that on Soap (how's that for old pop culture references?), maybe they get away with it.  On Dallas, nope.

[Aradace]

Bathead wrote...

Hell, if Marvel Comics can bring back Bucky Barnes, Bioware should be able to bring back Leliana.
I'm just sayin' is all.

It's still lame and lazy writing no matter how you look at it.  To use your example, I happen to like the Dark Knight.  If DC suddenly decided to kill him off for whatever reason, sure I'd be pissed off about it, but I'd also accept that he's dead.  But then, if they suddenly "ressurected" him and tried to come up with some lame ass excuse as to why they did it, I'd be even more pissed.  Why? Because despite how much I love the Dark Knight, once a character is dead, they should stay dead IMO otherwise it's nothing more than fanservice and/or lazy writing.

[Arppis]

The Angry One wrote...

Dude everybody knows Romeo and Juliet was a complete ripoff of Final Fantasy 8.

That game was rather dissapointing after FF7. Damn teenagers.