126 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

Oneiropolos wrote...

... I didn't say Zev was retconned. I said him appearing in DA2 was a BUG because many people who DID kill him off in DA:O are seeing his quest in DA2 anyway. It's an acknowledged bug by Bioware, same as people who let Nathaniel die seeing Nathaniel or Nathaniel saying the Architect is alive even if you've killed the architect. They're BUGS. But Leliana is acknowledged as NOT a bug and even without the Exiled Prince DLC, you do see her at the end.

Honestly, to be so offended of how dare she show back up when the very fact that Anders and Justice were present in the game... and they form a core amount of the game.. is ridiculous. In MY playthrough, Justice was presumably killed. Anders was with me, so he lived. But I'm fine accepting that the writers had a good reason to bring both Anders and Justice back for the sake of the story. We do not know what Leliana's real role is yet. Let's say even as high as 20% of people killed Leliana and that's what they imported... I don't think it actually IS that high and even if they killed her on a playthrough, you also have to consider the chances of that being the one they imported... but we'll go with 20%. Or even 25% if you want. So 1/4th of the audience killed a character. The writers decide that they actually do have greater plans for that character. So they try to give you a plausible reason for how she survived...though the fact is, they've only pointed out the Urn thing. They have NOT stated that's how she survived. Since there are so many things we do not know, I can understand annoyance, but calling it lame or the staff lazy for it is honestly absurd. We DON'T KNOW too many things. You pretty much state you are unwilling to accept any explanation in a world full of magic, dragons, elves, dwarves, lyrium, and so forth. So there's really no point to this discussion. You can just choose not to buy the next game since you have no faith in the developers. :/

My ire isnt just restricted to Leliana.  Its for Anders/Justice as well.  And for any other character(s) in the future they decide to suddenly "retcon"  What you call "offended" I call "They needed to not be so freakin lazy in their writing because retcons are just lame...period.

Secondly, you're right, I have 0 faith in their DA writing staff after this game.  And as such, if I decide to play DA3, it'll be through Gamefly.  Because honestly, while I liked DA2 (mostly, despite all the bugs and lame ass recons) I should have rented it.  Make no mistake DA3 will NOT be added to my games owned library.

Modifié par Aradace, 02 avril 2011 - 06:26 .

[wright1978]

This is a fantasy world so is anyone ever truly dead. I love Buffy & Angel where characters have been known to die and come back. Bioware have talented writers and i don't see why they can't generate a convincing backstory in DA3 to explain her being alive for those that killed her. As long as they don't use a Bobby Ewing shower dream(can't believe i can remember Dallas being considered cool) i'll be ok with it.

[Aradace]

wright1978 wrote...

This is a fantasy world so is anyone ever truly dead. I love Buffy & Angel where characters have been known to die and come back. Bioware have talented writers and i don't see why they can't generate a convincing backstory in DA3 to explain her being alive for those that killed her. As long as they don't use a Bobby Ewing shower dream(can't believe i can remember Dallas being considered cool) i'll be ok with it.

The ONLY way Id be ok with it is if in the future they did a "reboot" of DA:O and had Leliana just leave your party instead of havingto kill her if you destroy the urn.  Barring that, again...retcon equals lame.  Which once again brings about the arguement of, if they are going to omit something like this, why not just take away every single "important" decision in DA3 and....Oh...wait...they already did that in DA2.

[nicethugbert]

Psst. It's not called DA2. Varric lied. It's called DA:Awesomesauce.  We all good now.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 02 avril 2011 - 06:34 .

[Aradace]

nicethugbert wrote...

Psst. It's not called DA2. Varric lied. It's called DA:Awesomesauce.  We all good now.

More like Dragon Age: New Vegas lol

[Lord Gremlin]

nicethugbert wrote...

Psst. It's not called DA2. Varric lied. It's called DA:Awesomesauce. We all good now.

But why Varric made up the Leliana part? Most likely, cultists found her and fed to dragons... Nothing glorious here. Except for boobs, that were made into mage hats...
Sorry, too much Nightmare Before Christmas and Jeepers Creepers influence here... Hm, maybe Leliana IS Jeepers Creepers though. Explains everything. When decapitated she simply bites head off some bystander and replaces her own.

[Aradace]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Psst. It's not called DA2. Varric lied. It's called DA:Awesomesauce. We all good now.

But why Varric made up the Leliana part? Most likely, cultists found her and fed to dragons... Nothing glorious here. Except for boobs, that were made into mage hats...
Sorry, too much Nightmare Before Christmas and Jeepers Creepers influence here... Hm, maybe Leliana IS Jeepers Creepers though. Explains everything. When decapitated she simply bites head off some bystander and replaces her own.

Speaking of...It's already almost certain that even if you killed Anders this time around, he wont be dead in DA3.  It's already been "hinted" at so to speak.  He says something to the effect of how a spirit possession cant be reversed short of "beheading" the host.  And Hawke certainly doesnt behead him if you decide to kill him after the chantry goes boom.  Even if Ander's comment was merely exaggeration, it still has me worried that BW will use that to justify "retconning" him yet again lol.

[Lord Gremlin]

Aradace wrote...

Speaking of...It's already almost certain that even if you killed Anders this time around, he wont be dead in DA3. It's already been "hinted" at so to speak. He says something to the effect of how a spirit possession cant be reversed short of "beheading" the host. And Hawke certainly doesnt behead him if you decide to kill him after the chantry goes boom. Even if Ander's comment was merely exaggeration, it still has me worried that BW will use that to justify "retconning" him yet again lol.

It's no exaggeration... 1 stab simply can't kill him. This all is quite depressing really. The most engaging part of DAO is influencing outcomes of major events... And DA2 is more than depressing in that department. This "Varric lies" thing opens opportunity to remove player choice completely - in which case, I'd rather have something else to play.
Just random examples.. In DAO you decided if werewolves still live in the forest or not, who will rule Redcliff, who will rule Ferelden, you decide to destroy Urthemiel or make him reborn as Old God baby.. You can even own a tavern.
And in DA2? Almost nothing let to retcon. The only things to import is Hawke's gender and class. The only important for continuation things.

[Aradace]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Speaking of...It's already almost certain that even if you killed Anders this time around, he wont be dead in DA3. It's already been "hinted" at so to speak. He says something to the effect of how a spirit possession cant be reversed short of "beheading" the host. And Hawke certainly doesnt behead him if you decide to kill him after the chantry goes boom. Even if Ander's comment was merely exaggeration, it still has me worried that BW will use that to justify "retconning" him yet again lol.

It's no exaggeration... 1 stab simply can't kill him. This all is quite depressing really. The most engaging part of DAO is influencing outcomes of major events... And DA2 is more than depressing in that department. This "Varric lies" thing opens opportunity to remove player choice completely - in which case, I'd rather have something else to play.
Just random examples.. In DAO you decided if werewolves still live in the forest or not, who will rule Redcliff, who will rule Ferelden, you decide to destroy Urthemiel or make him reborn as Old God baby.. You can even own a tavern.
And in DA2? Almost nothing let to retcon. The only things to import is Hawke's gender and class. The only important for continuation things.

which is sad as hell really.  The lack of "choice" was the most depressing part of DA2.  Dont get me wrong, other than the bugs and retcons, I enjoyed every other aspect of DA2.  Aside from those two things, I love DA2.  Which is why Im so up in arms about the whole things.  If I didnt love this game so much, I wouldnt care.  The biggest let down for me was at the end of the game.  No matter what you decide to do, you end up fighting EVERYONE.  It's in that very moment when it comes to light how very little control you have over your choices in this installment.  In fact, I hated Origins but will say in it's defense that at least in Origins I felt like my choices mattered to some extent.  But even then, after seeing all the retcons, that has diminished to some extent.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

Larger than life alien beings that appear every so often to wipe out all life when they become advanced. The Reapers and The Executioners have that in common.

And in Star Ocean 2 fragments of the alien object called the Sorcery Globe can corrupt and take over people who have them. Same with pieces of the Reapers that cause Indoctrination.

Also it doesn't matter if Star Ocean 3 isn't canon. You don't have to be canon to be copied.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 02 avril 2011 - 09:19 .

[NedPepper]

Killing Oghren? When did you have that oppurtunity? Oghren was with me in Awakenings when I saved Amaranthine...and I don't remember an option to kill Oghren in DA;O.

And again, I say who cares? You guys are bloodthirsty. Kill Leliana. Kill Zevran. Kill Wynne. Kill Shale. Kill Oghren. (When?) Technically, you can kill Sten by leaving him in the cage. So did any of you actually play Origins with just Morrigan, Allistar and your dog after you slaughtered everyone else?

And Varric lying would bother me. Just saying.

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

OMG BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER

So, Anders will show up nekkid in Dallas? or in the bath of the Empress of Orlais?

[The Angry One]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

Larger than life alien beings that appear every so often to wipe out all life when they become advanced. The Reapers and The Executioners have that in common.

And in Star Ocean 2 fragments of the alien object called the Sorcery Globe can corrupt and take over people who have them. Same with pieces of the Reapers that cause Indoctrination.

Also it doesn't matter if Star Ocean 3 isn't canon. You don't have to be canon to be copied.

And again, the cosmic horror from far off is old old old, Star Ocean didn't invent that.
Also, mind control/indoctrination? Lovecraft wants a word with you.

[joriandrake]

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

Larger than life alien beings that appear every so often to wipe out all life when they become advanced. The Reapers and The Executioners have that in common.

And in Star Ocean 2 fragments of the alien object called the Sorcery Globe can corrupt and take over people who have them. Same with pieces of the Reapers that cause Indoctrination.

Also it doesn't matter if Star Ocean 3 isn't canon. You don't have to be canon to be copied.

And again, the cosmic horror from far off is old old old, Star Ocean didn't invent that.
Also, mind control/indoctrination? Lovecraft wants a word with you.

well he kinda does have a point that ALL of the listed plot devices are in that single game, of course if you just want to shake your fist at him you can list lots of titles that have one or two of them but still not all

I can also add to that list: Phantasy Star Universe

[Dasha Dreyson]

joriandrake wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

OMG BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER

So, Anders will show up nekkid in Dallas? or in the bath of the Empress of Orlais?

The bath... we all know he thinks everyone should love him.

[joriandrake]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

OMG BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER

So, Anders will show up nekkid in Dallas? or in the bath of the Empress of Orlais?

The bath... we all know he thinks everyone should love him.

I wonder if the Empress would oblige, maybe not, especially if Leliana is already in there with her (ignore that she is already a zombie in many people's storyline)

[Dasha Dreyson]

joriandrake wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

OMG BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER

So, Anders will show up nekkid in Dallas? or in the bath of the Empress of Orlais?

The bath... we all know he thinks everyone should love him.

I wonder if the Empress would oblige, maybe not, especially if Leliana is already in there with her (ignore that she is already a zombie in many people's storyline)

They could be zombies together (Leliana and Anders). Sorry, had to go there.

[UrsulaCousland]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Now I just feel old. Thanks for that.

People who were ten when Pokimon came out have just finished grad school.

Ugh. Now *I* feel old. Thanks for that! (I've celebrated 8 anniversaries of turning 29. Sign me up for the crazy cat lady hobble stick from the Feastday Pranks, I guess. )

[Dasha Dreyson]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Now I just feel old. Thanks for that.

People who were ten when Pokimon came out have just finished grad school.

Ugh. Now *I* feel old. Thanks for that! (I've celebrated 8 anniversaries of turning 29. Sign me up for the crazy cat lady hobble stick from the Feastday Pranks, I guess. )

I'm not far behind you.

[UrsulaCousland]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

UrsulaCousland wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Now I just feel old. Thanks for that.

People who were ten when Pokimon came out have just finished grad school.

Ugh. Now *I* feel old. Thanks for that! (I've celebrated 8 anniversaries of turning 29. Sign me up for the crazy cat lady hobble stick from the Feastday Pranks, I guess. )

I'm not far behind you.

Good to know! 

[The Angry One]

joriandrake wrote...

well he kinda does have a point that ALL of the listed plot devices are in that single game, of course if you just want to shake your fist at him you can list lots of titles that have one or two of them but still not all

I can also add to that list: Phantasy Star Universe

No, since the cosmic horror/indoctrinator aspects often go hand in hand. Case in point again: Lovecraft.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect copies a lot of elements from Square-Enix's Star Ocean games. More specifically from The Second Story and Till the End of Time.

Really I wasn't aware that Mass Effect's world was revealed to be an MMO for a bunch of listless morons in another dimension, and that God is Bill Gates.

If you're referring to the invasion of cosmic horrors thing, that concept is older than dirt.

Larger than life alien beings that appear every so often to wipe out all life when they become advanced. The Reapers and The Executioners have that in common.

And in Star Ocean 2 fragments of the alien object called the Sorcery Globe can corrupt and take over people who have them. Same with pieces of the Reapers that cause Indoctrination.

Also it doesn't matter if Star Ocean 3 isn't canon. You don't have to be canon to be copied.

And again, the cosmic horror from far off is old old old, Star Ocean didn't invent that.
Also, mind control/indoctrination? Lovecraft wants a word with you.

Its not just the whole cosmic horror thing, its how its portrayed. Both are alien horrors that happen to both be large as heck and have the sole purpose of wiping out intelligent life.

Just watch, in ME3 the Illusive Man will probably be revealed as The Creator of that universe and the Reapers, and they do this because he doesn't want his creations becoming more powerful than him and because he gets sh*ts and giggles out of it. And his reasons for helping Sheppard was because it made it more entertaining.

[Psycoman2]

nedpepper wrote...

Killing Oghren? When did you have that oppurtunity? Oghren was with me in Awakenings when I saved Amaranthine...and I don't remember an option to kill Oghren in DA;O.

And again, I say who cares? You guys are bloodthirsty. Kill Leliana. Kill Zevran. Kill Wynne. Kill Shale. Kill Oghren. (When?) Technically, you can kill Sten by leaving him in the cage. So did any of you actually play Origins with just Morrigan, Allistar and your dog after you slaughtered everyone else?

And Varric lying would bother me. Just saying.

Indeed.
People have no right to **** about this stuff, just be glad that some of your choices did actually carry through.

If you wanted all your choices in Origins to be meaningfull and permanent you should have demanded that they never expand on the story in any way, never make another game, DLC, comic.... anything.

If you actually want this world to be explored and expanded on then you have to accept that your evil, greedy, companion murduring, sacred artifact pissing on, warden never actally existed.

Becuase the cannon always eventually confirms that the hero was a  good guy.

[LobselVith8]

People have every right to express discontent with a product they purchased, Psycoman2, especially when they're told one thing, and the result is something entirely different.

[matty_s]

have just beem skimming this thread(opinion may not be warrented), but concerning leliana; for those people who killed her and had her appear at the end of DA2, Varric lied cannot be a plausable anwser. The telling of hawkes tale had ended and so had the framed narrative that was being told by varric.