73 réponses à ce sujet

[Damotta]

I find it interesting. The polotics played. Some how I seem to be going by my gut instinct on who would make a better King through what I am hearing and also after reading a few things people came accross. I'm actually finding my self tending towards Behlen. and surprisingly enough it's not because I'm evil. Yeah yeah I an alistair fan girl xDD.

This is why. If you think about it politically. I always get a bad feeling when I hear about a president or rule that runs around creating this "reputation". I just keep thinking of all the horrific historical Tyrants that came to power the exact same way. It feels... untruthful. Where as a person who does not hide who they are or their agenda be it agreeable or not I find much more trust worthy.

I guess this goes along the lines of the Behlen/Harrowmont mirroring our own polotics theroy. After I've sided with Behlen and see my ending I'll be sure to post it. I hope my gut feeling is right. And not just from reading the spoilers and deciding I wanted to see something different but also just the creepy too good to be true feeling I get from Harrowmont.

[Dsurian]

The reason that i will never pick Behlen on probably any play-through is that he always wants more power. A leader of a people should never constantly require/yearn for that leadership/power...or even more than. ...and hell, talk about it mirroring current days politics...its really quite sad.

[Chillwill]

Once you have played the dwarf noble origin you will know what bhelen is truly like. Pretty much all the origin stories show you a side of some important character that you will otherwise never know.

All i will say is you wont like him much after that.

[soteria]

I chose Harrowmont not because my character is "good" but because when I told Bhelen's lackey that I would have to think about my choice, he tried to bully me. I was like, "Really? Guess I know who I'm going to have to bring down a few notches."



As for which would make a better ruler, I do think Harrowmont as the lesser of two potential evils. Harrowmont seems like a good guy, but after seeing Bhelen's mobster tactics, I know he isn't.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Not necessarily. If you play as a Dwarf Commoner, your opinion of Bhelen's bound to be very different. You grew up in Dust Town being spat on by everyone else--why should you care if he killed a few nobles? He also wants to demolish the old ways and open Orzammar, two things that are bound to make your life and the lives of the people in Dust Town better.



I sided with Bhelen in my playthrough with my mage, not because I thought he would make a better king, but rather a stronger ally against the Blight, which was all my mage cared about at that point--she hates politics. His representative was a jerk, but at least he was completely straight with me about what I needed to do for Bhelen and what I'd get in return. I didn't hand him the Anvil of the Void, though--god knows what the power-hungry bastard would have done with it.

[ReubenLiew]

@ soteria - Oh if only that were true.

Modifié par ReubenLiew, 18 novembre 2009 - 08:19 .

[BringwinD]

harrowmont ending - dwarves are more reclusive, more civil war, refuse surface trade. basically, horrible ending.



Bhelen ending - dwarves are modernized, surface trade, caste removal, sure nobles are unhappy with bhelen and bhelen disbanded the assembly being a tyrant, but the commoners of the dwarven kingdom are better off.

[Anton de Staen]

As a elf mage, I chose Harrowmont, as he in my oh-so-noble character's mind had more potential as a good ruler. As a human noble, however, I chose Bhelen. She has a preference for nobility - The higher, the better.

[Loregothe]

The commoners of no kingdom will be better off with a tyrant in charge. They may in the short term gain some in return for their freedom, but in the end, when the tyrant no longer needs the populous to maintain control, their lot will be worse than it was to start with. This has played out over and over in real history, and is playing out now in places on our planet.



Bhelen is a tyrant. He wants power and nothing else. He will do anything to achieve it and cares nothing for anyone but himself. He will use whoever he can to take what he wants and then he will kick them to the curb. He betrayed both of his brothers and killed his own father. He didn't do that to free the casteless. He did it for his own personal gain. The ends do not justify the means, even if the "better" conditions were to last, which they won't.



One has to wonder if a more open dwarven society is actually good for the dwarves. How will that harm their cultural identity? Isn't that worth something? Would it not be better to incrementally become more open reduce class stratification in an orderly fashion so that identity stayed intact? What about the freedom of the individual? If I am casteless, but have the option to leave the city, and become a surface dwarf (which they have now, even if they choose not to exercise it) isn't that better than being under the control of a tyrant? Change is inevitable. How you control change is as important as the change itself. Giving away your freedom to someone who promises change now is probably not the smartest thing to do in the long run. Just saying.

[dk3dknight]

soteria wrote...

I chose Harrowmont not because my character is "good" but because when I told Bhelen's lackey that I would have to think about my choice, he tried to bully me. I was like, "Really? Guess I know who I'm going to have to bring down a few notches."

As for which would make a better ruler, I do think Harrowmont as the lesser of two potential evils. Harrowmont seems like a good guy, but after seeing Bhelen's mobster tactics, I know he isn't.

I didn't care much for Harrowmont's fans who tried to kill me time after time.. I had to turn the streets red..  I realized that Harrowmont is a good actor he preches what he is doing is right but he keeps the true Harrowmont hidden where he plots.  

In another sight it might be a misunderstandinb but these are my two theorys.

Theory 1:
Harrowmont is a actor who pretends to be a wholesome person but in reality he is a schemer who seeks power.
Behlen is not a actor and instead of pretending to be a good guy lets his feelings and actions speak for themselfs.

Theory 2: 
Harrowmont is being manipulated and is a weak leader who is letting others push buttons for him, a weak man makes a weak dwarf unless he has a strong wife, a weak man with a strong wife usually makes a strong king.

Baheln is too strong to be manipulated and thus lets his actions speak for themselfs, since the council members are pretty much noble, changes that would limit there power would be counter productive, which tells me that Behlen sees this as something that must be changed, regardless if he loses votes.

In the end I had to do what was best for the dwarfs and Ill find out.

[JamesX]

I picked Bhalen. Harrowmont and Bhalen are both not good, at least Bhalen has the guts to be honest about it.

[OdinTGE]

I picked 'not Bhalen' because one of his lackies hacked a dude to death as I walked into Orzimar. On my 2nd playthough I'll be picking Bhalen because his lacky hacks a dude to death as I walk into Orzimar.

[packardbell]

Really, you found out that being morally right and just is not enough for being a king of Orzammar as shown in the epilogue (harromownt is killed, foulplay probably) you have to be brutal and firm otherwise your reign will be shortlived.



Bhelen was a major jerk yes but you cannot fault that he is the best king in a place mired by betrayal and assassination.

[Forsakerr]

JamesX wrote...

I picked Bhalen. Harrowmont and Bhalen are both not good, at least Bhalen has the guts to be honest about it.

The letters you have to give to the two nobles are forged if you talk to the shaperate he looks at it and tells you they are false, and also he framed his brother and got him accused for the murder of the eldest one ,  he accuse Haromont of doing excactly what he does (manipulating people with lies) black mailing one of the proving fighters and lying to the other one so they both dont fight , there is no honesty there ,he s an hypocrite bastard

[buffbc]

After starting the Dwarf Noble origin, I just want to run Bhelen through with my sword.



I chose Harrowmont on my first runthrough because Bhelen seemed a bit douchey and his minion was a total jerk...just picked on instinct.

[BluesMan1956]

buffbc wrote...

After starting the Dwarf Noble origin, I just want to run Bhelen through with my sword.

...

If I ever see that sodding brother of mine, I will cut off his balls with a rusty axe and feed them to a nugling!

[JamesX]

Forsakerr wrote...

JamesX wrote...

I picked Bhalen. Harrowmont and Bhalen are both not good, at least Bhalen has the guts to be honest about it.

The letters you have to give to the two nobles are forged if you talk to the shaperate he looks at it and tells you they are false, and also he framed his brother and got him accused for the murder of the eldest one ,  he accuse Haromont of doing excactly what he does (manipulating people with lies) black mailing one of the proving fighters and lying to the other one so they both dont fight , there is no honesty there ,he s an hypocrite bastard

I think you misunderstood what I said.

I didn't say he is honest.  I said he is "more honest about it".  "It" meaning he is "not good."

Modifié par JamesX, 18 novembre 2009 - 09:29 .

[wcholcombe]

If I was a dwarf commoner, I would probably side with Bhelen, but only because it sounds like Behlen is who my sister was seeing.

[Sable Rhapsody]

The point being that there is no "correct" choice. This was really the only major plot point where I had a hard time picking. I found the decisions in the Circle of Magi, Redcliffe, and the Brecilian Forest much easier, but there really isn't a "good guy" between Bhelen and Harrowmont.

[Findarin]

I actually found the anvil of the void a much tougher decision.



Sure Branka is crazy and there is a huge cost to run the void, but destroying the anvil may very well doom the dwarfs in the long run.

[Ninjaphrog]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

buffbc wrote...

After starting the Dwarf Noble origin, I just want to run Bhelen through with my sword.

...

If I ever see that sodding brother of mine, I will cut off his balls with a rusty axe and feed them to a nugling!

LOL AWESOME XD

[Njorhg]

The only thing that's wrong about the decision is the lack of bribing - why is neither dwarf interested in buying the Throne?
Just give a pitty bid, if nothing else!
Not even sovereign, please?

Modifié par Njorhg, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:41 .

[Eshaye]

Anton de Staen wrote...

As a elf mage, I chose Harrowmont, as he in my oh-so-noble character's mind had more potential as a good ruler. As a human noble, however, I chose Bhelen. She has a preference for nobility - The higher, the better.

Oh weird!! As an elf mage I chose Belen because as an elf she instinctively reviled Dust Town and everything it stands for, reminded her too much of the alienages and the injustice done to her people. Since Belen had a favorable view of the casteless it made the choice a lot easier.

[ninjamaster_255]

Wow i picked belen because i didn't think i would survive the proving grounds (tryed it and got my little mage butt kicked in the last round) it wasn't untill after word and listening to the Cryers that i learned that he was more for surface contact

Grey wardens do what ever it takes

Bhelen just seams like he would lead to future leaders giving the wardens less trouble in future blights

(of course considering that the darkspawn are a constant figure in there lifes there may not be much to begin with)



My dalish elf will be in trouble though on the one hand Bhelen will free the casteless which goes with the dalish oath on the other harrowmount is about tradition(it seems to me anyway)

both are very big things to a dalish so I am in trouble when i get there

[B33ker]

The whole king thing is a no win scenario.



It makes sense when you consider just how FUBAR'd the whole place is.