73 réponses à ce sujet

[BroBear Berbil]

There's something very Caesar-like about Bhelen. I now side with him on all my playthroughs, even my Dwarf noble. Yes, he is ruthless but looking at it pragmatically he makes for a very strong ally and you end up doing a lot more good by putting him on the throne. The balance of power in Orzammar really isn't of any concern to me but Dwarves reclaiming thaigs and bolstering their armies with casteless has a greater impact on the fight against the darkspawn in the long run than Harrowmont's help during the blight.

[Roxlimn]

Bhelen is a stronger king - the right kind of leader for the political situation in Orzammar. For all his talk of honesty and crap, Harrowmont cannot control what his fanatical supporters do and cannot even convince his own relatives to support his bid.



Nice but incompetent doesn't make for a good ruler, folks.

[WawaBubba]

at this point i would love to just pick either one of them but i am stuck....i am supporting both of them, did the letters for behlen, did the proving ground for the other, yet neither one of their managers is talking to me, the door remains locked.... help!!! how to get out of this and pick one of them?

[Jobrill]

Honestly, having done both Harrowmont and Bhelen's storylines, I think it's not too much of a stretch to see a Grey Warden picking Bhelen. After all, while Harrowmont just wants you to go beat people up in the Arena, Bhelen's uncovered CORRUPTION. If you never go to the Shaperate (Understandable if you don't know the Shaperate would have duplicates of the notes), of course you have no reason to suspect Harrowmont wasn't dishonest.



Beyond that, Harrowmont's so milquetoast it isn't funny. I mean, as you go through, it's all about tradition and values, except the tradition and values of the dwarves are pretty messed up. And Harrowmont SAYS he'll be a wise and compassionate King, but the status quo of Dwarven Society is just about the polar opposite of wise and compassionate, and Harrowmont shows no signs of being willing to change it. Also, of course, Bhelen is much more gung-ho about fighting the Blight, even beyond simply obligating the treaty.



There's also valid reasons to reject Bhelen, such as getting annoyed that his second is bullying you, or discovering the notes he had you deliver are forged, or whatever.



And of course, metagamy, Bhelen's probably the more morally bankrupt one. But then again, isn't upholding the status quo with the Casteless just as immoral as anything Bhelen's done?



Anyway, I don't think the decision's too clear cut, and depending on what your character KNOWS or FINDS OUT and their general demeanor, there's reasons to chose both, and to reject both.

[Jobrill]

Oops, double post.

Modifié par Jobrill, 07 décembre 2009 - 05:05 .

[cglasgow]

I always wondered: why didn't Harrowmont invite any witnesses to his deathbed conversation with Endrin? 'King Endrin says that I'm the heir, not you' would have gone over much better in the assembly if a few of the deshyrs had been there to overhear it.



As is, Harrowmont is the only person alone with the dying King at that time when its more to his political advantage to do it the other way.



Unless, of course, Bhelen was telling the truth (for once) and Harrowmont pulled the whole thing out of his arse, because he personally didn't want Bhelen.

[Roxlimn]

Harrowmont doesn't want to change anything. He has no dynamism, and no clear vision for where he wants to take Orzammar. All he ever says is that he's about "tradition" and that he's "the rightful successor." That means nothing to me, and especially nothing in a place where Kings are elected.



Bhelen has a clear vision of where he wants to take Orzammar after he becomes King and that alone makes him the stronger ruler. Heck, even Branka would have been a stronger ruler than Harrowmont.

[Rainen89]

Harrowmont is ignorant and blindsided into believing that everything the dwarves have been doing is correct and that there's no need to change. He is oppressive to casteless or those of less than noble rank and despite acting like the loving grandfather he's actually quite evil. He risks open war with the surface to fuel his construct army (should you not destroy the anvil.) He is the worst thing for Orzammar because Orzammar is a dying city, they need to change or simply be destroyed. Bhelen may not be the nicest huggable guy but he is a strong leader one who can give the assembly pause and not be felled by multiple assassination attempts. Saying he's a bad leader because he wants them to be united and wants to be a strong leader is not a bad thing. Do you really want to be ruled by someone who would ignore the current problems, oppressive natures and have traditions damn your people?

Harrowmont appears nice so people like him, but this isn't who is able to be the best two faced dwarf, this is about being an effective leader. Bhelen demonstrates this very well besides it's not like he was the first person to ever do this to get the throne. Even Endrin (who in the Dwarven noble origin appears to be the sweetest/kindest old man you've ever seen.) Got his brother killed in a proving by poisoning his brothers opponents' weapon. If this were say the Dalish, Bhelen would be a horrible ruler because nothing would happen but for Dwarven society it works, and it works very, very well.

[Leonhartx]

meh Harrowmont is more of the good guy choice but the ending for him was terrible =/.

[Leonhartx]

WawaBubba wrote...

at this point i would love to just pick either one of them but i am stuck....i am supporting both of them, did the letters for behlen, did the proving ground for the other, yet neither one of their managers is talking to me, the door remains locked.... help!!! how to get out of this and pick one of them?

try and do the anvil event and get the crown to force the choice.

[Neoskeptic]

I think he can't even get out of the city anymore.



Actually after playing the dwarf noble opening, I was sure that the bastard was right for the crown. As a prince vying for the throne myself, I let myself get outplayed. Bhelen's ruthless and just the right kind of sneaky, and those are qualities which will serve him well.

[Kesshi]

OdinTGE wrote...

I picked 'not Bhalen' because one of his lackies hacked a dude to death as I walked into Orzimar. On my 2nd playthough I'll be picking Bhalen because his lacky hacks a dude to death as I walk into Orzimar.

Hear hear!  Best decision in this thread so far.  Hats off to you!

[Rainen89]

< Still wishes you could proclaim yourself king/queen following the events of the Anvil of the void climax.

[MOTpoetryION]

i was doing eveything for Bhalen fighting under his name . but started losing it when i got the mob boss and then he wanted more things well just felt just because he was the son diddnt make it his spot so at the end after following his way i chose haramont they were wow thats suprising lol

[corebit]

Rainen89 wrote...

< Still wishes you could proclaim yourself king/queen following the events of the Anvil of the void climax.

Yeah I was really pissed off that I couldn't have that option. I mean the dwarves look up to the Paragons so much, their word is pretty much the law, it overrides everything. So why couldn't my dwarf noble have a convo line to convince Branka or Caridin to recommend ME as the new king!!

[MOTpoetryION]

i actually wanted to name the girl that you do the quest for to find proof she is nobility. that would of set things off huh. lol

[HarlequinDream]

Orta for queen! I could get behind this.



My Dalish looked around, talked to a few people, wanted to just leave the dwarves to their fate, but no such luck. So... Then it came down to "Who do I want helping me against the Blight? ...Behlen it is."

[digitalAngst]

Harrowmont is a narrow-minded traditionalist/isolationist dwelling in the past. Too bad that when I've noticed that it was too late. Well, there's always another playthrough waiting.





°dA

[KingNothing125]

Bhalen is the third of King Endrin's three children. He has Trian murdered, and the Dwarf Noble PC framed and consequently exiled for it. King Endrin slips into a deep depression and dies because of it. There's no way I could support Bhalen for king after that, no matter the incompetence of Harrowmont and the rather suckiness of that epilogue.



The same way I executed Loghain rather than having him join the Wardens. I could not spare him after what he did to the Wardens and Ferelden.

[asaiasai]

I did one play through and went to the shaperate and found out that Bhelin was lying to me but i still followed up on the Bhelin line. I did all his quests went in sided with Charadin, smacked Branka down, walked back into the assembly and wiped the smug look off Bhelins face by handing Harromont the crown. Even Harromont was shocked, i love doing that kind of stuff. But yes even though Bhelin is as trust worthy as your standard typical politician what he does for the dwarves is IMHO better for them than the Harromont way.



Asai

[EricHVela]

Dwarves are a curious people. Think of them like Klingons. What kind of ruler does their culture actually need? "Necessary" isn't always "nice".

[Original182]

Darn, I thought it would be possible for the Dwarf Noble character to become king of Orzammar. If it is possible for a human noble to become king/queen, why not the dwarf noble?

[EricHVela]

Original182 wrote...

Darn, I thought it would be possible for the Dwarf Noble character to become king of Orzammar. If it is possible for a human noble to become king/queen, why not the dwarf noble?

You're not a Noble. You're an outcast, stripped of your house. The condition of the dwarven state would not allow that much of a break in tradition.

[Relshar]

If you have Zeveran in your party at the time of deciding who to work for he puts it all into context.



But I usualy play through as a chatotic good type character. But would prefer to see Bhelen on the throne due to his ability to hold Orzammar together all be bit with an iron fist. Under his rule the Dwarfs actualy start to make head way back into the Deep Roads.

[Relshar]

Original182 wrote...

Darn, I thought it would be possible for the Dwarf Noble character to become king of Orzammar. If it is possible for a human noble to become king/queen, why not the dwarf noble?

Keep playing you maybe surpprised at the outcome in the Epilouge.