91 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

I might be in the minority but I feel like the Reapers aren't as.....let's say "intimidating" as they were in "ME1".

I prefer "ME2" as a game but Sovereign is 1000x better than Harbinger. Partially it's a case of "less is more". It's more than that though. The more success Shepard has directly decreases how scary the Reapers are. And by the end of "Arrival" Shepard has killed 2 Reapers and stopped them invading 2x. That's not even taking into account stuff like killing Saren, wiping out the Collectors, or blowing up their base. Shepard is just styling on them every step of the way.

Harbinger shows up at the end of "Arrival", and it's like....ok. You're basically saying the same thing Sovereign was saying 3 years ago, and we see how that turned out. He talked a lot of sh*t and got wrecked.

I've seen the "ME3" trailer but Bioware can be deceptive at times. That might be a preview of a "bad" end to the game. I hope the Reapers really wipe out millions in the opening minutes of the game. That would actually make me believe what Sovereign said about what the Reapers are capable of.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Making the Reapers a credible threat would make the game too depressing for all the Paragon players.

Nonsense.  I love the heavy stuff.  Just need an occasional explosion of butterflies and rainbows because I don't like my entertainment to get TOO depressing.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Making the Reapers a credible threat would make the game too depressing for all the Paragon players.

Nonsense.  I love the heavy stuff.  Just need an occasional explosion of butterflies and rainbows because I don't like my entertainment to get TOO depressing.

It is fine if our mission is not impossible, but merely improbable. I'm a big fan of improbable causes.

I'm also a big fan of having to do everything just right in order to succeed.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You're a fluke, an outlier. The Paragon Path so far has been all sunshine and bunnies and it will stay that way.

Arrival?  Virmire?  Other universal plot events?

Paragon isn't skirting around the heavy stuff, it's choosing to deal with it in such a way that there's less collateral damage.

[hex23]

I'm a Paragon myself. I actually think the worse the conditions, the more chance it gives Paragons to shine. Renegades can be assh*les 24/7 anyway, people expect it. Paragons try do to the right thing no matter how bleak the outcome.

Technically the game should be dark and depressing. You can't soft peddle god-like machines that murder trillions every 50,000 years. There's no "lite" Disney version of that. We need to see that in motion though for it to really hit home. Having another Reaper make empty threats for 5 minutes ain't gonna cut it.

Modifié par hex23, 02 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[AdmiralCheez]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

It is fine if our mission is not impossible, but merely improbable. I'm a big fan of improbable causes.

I'm also a big fan of having to do everything just right in order to succeed.

Yes and yes.

[Gust4v]

Well, the time-out video from Arrival was a little scary.

[AdmiralCheez]

hex23 wrote...

I'm a Paragon myself.

Technically the game should be dark and depressing. You can't soft peddle god-like machines that murder trillions every 50,000 years. There's no "lite" Disney version of that. We need to see that in motion though for it to really hit home. Having another Reaper make empty threats for 5 minutes ain't gonna cut it.

Well, duh.

You know what I thought would really make things hit home?  A sidequest that takes place in a refugee camp.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nonsense.  I love the heavy stuff.

You're a fluke, an outlier. The Paragon Path so far has been all sunshine and bunnies and it will stay that way.

At the very least, the Paragon choice in Legion's mission is sure to come back to haunt you. They don't make Legion say there is a "non-zero probability" for that one to work out badly for no reason. The other big choices, from the rachni to the Genophage and even Shiala could go either way.

Although, Feros being completely absent from a PS3 playthrough might mean Shiala won't really matter either way. Which would be a shame, because I really like her character.

[Clonedzero]

i also kinda how they have some successful cerberus operations / projects.

[Iakus]

hex23 wrote...

I'm a Paragon myself. I actually think the worse the conditions, the more chance it gives Paragons to shine. Renegades can be assh*les 24/7 anyway, people expect it. Paragons try do to the right thing no matter how bleak the outcome.

Technically the game should be dark and depressing. You can't soft peddle god-like machines that murder trillions every 50,000 years. There's no "lite" Disney version of that. We need to see that in motion though for it to really hit home. Having another Reaper make empty threats for 5 minutes ain't gonna cut it.

Indeed

As a Paragon player, I say the hero retaining their sense of nobility and honor while striving to hold back the fall of night is the stuff heroic epics are made of.

"Life before death
Strength before weakness
Journey before destination"

As for the Reapers, I'm just glad Bioware remembered they're supposed to be a threat at all.  Being a credible threat will just be icing on the cake

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

That was my problem with the Suicide Mission. Casualties should have been mandatory.

Virmire not good enough for you?

Personally, being able to get everyone out alive in the SM felt awesome for me, mostly because the game got me to give a sh*t about the squad.  I'm way too f*cking familiar with not being able to save the people I care about in real life, thanks.

But yes, stuff like Arrival is great--no-win situations and all that.  Also, seeing the destruction up close, how it affects people directly, is also adequate.

This is why I put forward the refugee camp idea: you see people whose homes have been destroyed, who are crowded into a small space with food, water, and medical supplies rapidly dwindling, who can't even trust one another thanks to indoctrination...

Yeah.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 02 avril 2011 - 05:07 .

[Almostfaceman]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

That was my problem with the Suicide Mission. Casualties should have been mandatory.

Virmire not good enough for you?

Personally, being able to get everyone out alive in the SM felt awesome for me, mostly because the game got me to give a sh*t about the squad.  I'm way too f*cking familiar with not being able to save the people I care about in real life, thanks.

+1

[hex23]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Paragon is-, nevermind, that's a different thread.

I would welcome a darker universe too, one in which it is impossible to have a flawless victory in which you never had to make any sacrifices. That was my problem with the Suicide Mission. Casualties should have been mandatory.

While that works for story/dramatic purposes it's hard to implement from a game play stand point. If  you lose....let's say Jack or Thane....no matter what you do, you're basically making the game a slave to the story.

That's the main thing I didn't like about "Arrival". The story being on auto-pilot. 300k Batarians died, and you have zero input on the matter. I would've liked it more if there was at least an option to destory the Mass Relay another way....not because I necessarily wanted to, but because that would've gave the deaths weight, and impact. I chose to do this, for this reason.

[TheDFO]

Eh the paragon route isn't all hookers and sunshine. Sometimes it's straight naivety mixed with self righteousness (I'm looking square at the genophage dialogue).

But other than that, I too want the Reapers to be a real threat in ME3 (if we're so lowly, why are they bothering to talk to use at all when we crush their plans?). However, I doubt they can, because they established their are at the very least 2 to 3 times the number of reapers as their are dreadnaughts in the galaxy. Making them scary, and making them beatable won't exactly be easy.

IMO, they would have been better if "dark space" was way off in between galaxies, not a few hundred light years outside of the galactic plane. That way we could defeat them without ever getting into a giant space brawl. Like we could just blow up a relay as they are in transit on the relay. The sudden shift could KO them, and taking out a relay (or the citadel?) Might actually be within our power, whereas taking out 100's of super dreadnaught monsters.

[hex23]

And yeah the refugee idea sounds awesome. I want some areas to be war torn, Reapers flying around in the back ground, etc. Kind of like the last level of "ME1", with Reapers out in the open as you run through the level. Something that gives the impression "oh sh*t they're here".

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The fact that you care so much about your squad is precisely why you should be forced to lose some of them on the Suicide Mission.

It increases the drama, preserves the threat of the villains, and brings the conflict closer to home.

Do you not understand?

Some of us play video games to escape the real-life drama.

The last thing I want is to fail to protect my team when I was already helpless to stop... ugh, you know what?  Nevermind.  I'm not going to rant about my personal life on a gaming forum.  Screw specific details and sob stories.

Suffice to say, how would you feel if you watched characters you spent possibly 90 hours getting to know suddenly started dropping like flies when someone very close to you had passed away not a week earlier?

Those are not memories I want to relive while I'm trying to enjoy myself.

When people pick up an RPG, it gives them the opportunity to play pretend through a more mature medium.  I can do things in video games that I could never do in real life.  I can build a world the way I want it, where rescue comes for the abandoned and the good guys actually win.  You may want to spin a story like a powerful novel, and you can, but my story is different from yours.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 02 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[Nashiktal]

Artificially forcing you to lose anything in a game is bad design.

Kinda like how my badass game character is smashing through hundreds of npc's, only to be arrested by five of them later in a cutscence.

Its a bad trope we need to move away from.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 avril 2011 - 05:21 .

[Leonia]

The thing is, with the Suicide Mission, if you WANT the extra drama feel free to let some team-mates die. For those of who DON'T want that, we're going to try our damndest to not lose anyone. There's a choice there and I'm glad the devs gave it to us instead of saying "Ok, choose the six companions you want to live after this mission" . They could have railroaded us there despite designing an ENTIRE game around "gather and gain the loyalty of these important people" and they chose not to do that.

I lost Tali on my first trip through the SM and while I'm not a huge Tali fan it hit me pretty hard because she was a returning character from ME1. Every time I load up Dragon Age 2 I am met with unstable companions and a grim, dark ending..I don't mind if Mass Effect is dark and dangerous but I don't want the choice of who survives and dies to be taken away from me either. Even with Virmire we got to choose the lesser of two evils.

Living through the Suicide Mission with as much of your squad as possible should feel like a huge moment of relief, as you know, the whole point of ME2 was to build your squad. Losing anyone should hit hard but for those who didn't lose anyone (I did learn from my first playthrough experience), it wasn't any less of a dramatic experience.

Sorry to be sort off-topic-ish but felt like Cheez's points were worth defending.

Modifié par leonia42, 02 avril 2011 - 05:33 .