158 réponses à ce sujet

[Aether99]

Galad22 wrote...

Aether99 wrote...

actually the only time its not wrong to assume is when youve been told the outcome. 

Yes well I do actually have better things to do than follow development of a game for months and months.

But sure it is my own fault for not paying attention.

i wouldnt call it being at fault, that doesnt really make sense with the context of the discussion.  rather you were just wrong.  I personally try to approach most things without expectation (outside of real life at least), prevents dissapointment.

[P_k_r]

nicethugbert wrote...
Wrong!
 -snip-

"Action" doesn't blend well with these types of games, in the sense you're referring to it. Tactical, turn-based RPG that rely on pausing are for a more slow-going crowd. "Action" mixes well with shooters and even RTS games, but in a game that relies on dice rolls and turns to handle combat...I can't really see it happening. (no matter how well its masked, Origins was still a turn-based game). That's why people are so displeased with DA 2, in my opinion. There's an obvious rift between the narrative, the gameplay and people's expectations.

The classical RPG formula which Origins adhered to was the fruit of many years of labour, from various developers. You can't just take one or two elements, dress them up as "action-packed" and "dynamic" and toss them onto the market. It doesn't blend well, it feels awkward as the genre wasn't made with such goals in mind. The Mass Effect series were a right step in that regard; DA 2, on the other hand, has a bit of an identity crisis - it can't decide whether it should cater to a broader audience or the more RPG-focused niche.

Modifié par P_k_r, 02 avril 2011 - 02:34 .

[iTIMMEH]

nicethugbert wrote...
Wrong!

With DA2, "Now the story gets really started" starts at the very begining.  That is one difference between DA:O and DA2.  DA2 puts you right in the action from the very beginning of the game.  And I love it!  I find it incredibly immersive.

Yeah, it was very effective. I was really cut up when 5 minutes into the game my sibling gets killed, and then Wesley.

Oh, sorry I meant it sucked.

[Aether99]

iTIMMEH wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...
Wrong!

With DA2, "Now the story gets really started" starts at the very begining.  That is one difference between DA:O and DA2.  DA2 puts you right in the action from the very beginning of the game.  And I love it!  I find it incredibly immersive.

Yeah, it was very effective. I was really cut up when 5 minutes into the game my sibling gets killed, and then Wesley.

Oh, sorry I meant it sucked.

whats funny is the first playthrough i didnt know carver could survive.  second playthrough bethany dies and i was like WHAT NOOOO.  then i had carver around, i was surprised.  also quite sad about her death, considering my first playthrough i took her with me into the deep roads without anders.

[moilami]

nicethugbert wrote...

This is what the DA:O loving DA2 hating crowd does not get.  Dragon Age is not DA:O.  DA2 is not DA:O.  DA:O and DA2 are different and separate games in the Dragon Age Series of games.

Really?

[Ixalmaris]

VheodTh wrote...

hehe, DA:O combat: www.youtube.com/watch
DA2 combat: www.youtube.com/watch

I rather see it that way
DA:O (couldn't find an unedited clip)
DA2:

[iTIMMEH]

Aether99 wrote...
whats funny is the first playthrough i didnt know carver could survive.  second playthrough bethany dies and i was like WHAT NOOOO.  then i had carver around, i was surprised.  also quite sad about her death, considering my first playthrough i took her with me into the deep roads without anders.

I was gutted too, mostly because Carver is a whiny **** and if I had the choice I would kill him myself.

[Aether99]

iTIMMEH wrote...

Aether99 wrote...
whats funny is the first playthrough i didnt know carver could survive.  second playthrough bethany dies and i was like WHAT NOOOO.  then i had carver around, i was surprised.  also quite sad about her death, considering my first playthrough i took her with me into the deep roads without anders.

I was gutted too, mostly because Carver is a whiny **** and if I had the choice I would kill him myself.

hes the younger brother with inferiority issues.  for what its worth he did not bother me.  my most hated char in all of the dragon age series so far is morrigan, i kept her with me my first playthrough hoping shed get better, but didnt.  I made sure to leave her otu of hte party after that.

love the voice actress though (IRL)

[abaris]

iTIMMEH wrote...

Yeah, it was very effective. I was really cut up when 5 minutes into the game my sibling gets killed, and then Wesley.

Oh, sorry I meant it sucked.

Yeah, I was all in tears until I noticed I don't give a flying ..... I didn't even know that pixelpile after all.

Now compare that to the exposition in the human noble story of DAO or even the choice you had to make in ME1 between Ashley and Kaidan. On my first playthrough I really felt the emotion and toughness of the decision.

That's good writing asd opposed to pull something from between the cheeks, and they have more than proven, they are capable to pull that trick.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Ixalmaris wrote...

I could write about all those things many people have rightfully critizised in DA2 like how Kirkwall is static etc, but I let the game (or rather its cutscenes) speak for itself.

Lets compare the "Now the story gets really started" cinematics from DA:O and DA2

DA:O



DA2:
(Couldn't find a cutscene only video, likely because its so short and rather uninteresting)

This difference continues through the game. How could Bioware even expect fans to approve of this game with such a drop in quality? Even if the story in DA2 would have been good, the lack of immersion ruins it.

PS: There are more people in the DA:O cutscene than in entire Kirkwall.

I can't really agree with those sentiments, well I could until I'd played for maybe 5hours, now give me DA2 over Origins any day, and I really, really, like Origins.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

abaris wrote...

iTIMMEH wrote...

Yeah, it was very effective. I was really cut up when 5 minutes into the game my sibling gets killed, and then Wesley.

Oh, sorry I meant it sucked.

Yeah, I was all in tears until I noticed I don't give a flying ..... I didn't even know that pixelpile after all.

Now compare that to the exposition in the human noble story of DAO or even the choice you had to make in ME1 between Ashley and Kaidan. On my first playthrough I really felt the emotion and toughness of the decision.

That's good writing asd opposed to pull something from between the cheeks, and they have more than proven, they are capable to pull that trick.

Well seriously, how long was Carver there for? as opposed to Ashley or Kaidan, you'd invested alot more time with them, quite a few hours, so of course you'd care more, more so if you were having a relationship with them.

Again its picking non-issues for arguments sake - If Ashley had died on Eden Prime in a cut-scene this argument would be mute.

[Byth]

Is this a topic on who has the better opening cutscene or which one is more immersion? I played both uninterrupted for up until 2:00-4:00 when I first bought them(surprisingly I played DA2 longer) so I'd say they're about the same.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Of course it would be. But she wasn't, so it's not.

I believe his point was how unlike previous Bio games they allowed the player to build a rapport with important characters, you had invested time and emotion in them. Whereas in DA 2, they just get mauled in short order. Making it hard to care what happens to them.

Which is really counter intuitive for an RPG as the good ones will make you care about characters which are supposed to be close and/or important to you.

I still haven't played DA2 outside the demo, so I don't know if this really is the case with other characters too. But it's hard to have empathy or even sympathy for a character who was thrust onto you less than 10 minutes ago.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 02 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[v_ware]

nicethugbert wrote...
This is what the DA:O loving DA2 hating crowd does not get.  Dragon Age is not DA:O.  DA2 is not DA:O.  DA:O and DA2 are different and separate games in the Dragon Age Series of games.

So according to that logic Mass Effect is not Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 is not Mass Effect. 

Tsssh.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

mrcrusty wrote...

Of course it would be. But she wasn't, so it's not.

I believe his point was how unlike previous Bio games they allowed the player to build a rapport with important characters, you had invested time and emotion in them. Whereas in DA 2, they just get mauled in short order. Making it hard to care what happens to them.

Which is really counter intuitive for an RPG as the good ones will make you care about characters which are supposed to be close and/or important to you.

I still haven't played DA2 outside the demo, so I don't know if this really is the case with other characters too. But it's hard to have empathy or even sympathy for a character who was thrust onto you less than 10 minutes ago.

From what I hear Carver doesn't necessarily die, its dependent on whether or not you are a mage.

Dont' take this the wrong way, but wouldn't playing the game give you a better perspective, I was quite anti until i'd played for about 5 hours or so, now I can't get enough of it.

[abaris]

mrcrusty wrote...

I believe his point was how unlike previous Bio games they allowed the player to build a rapport with important characters, you had invested time and emotion in them. Whereas in DA 2, they just get mauled in short order. Making it hard to care what happens to them.

Precisely.

There's always time for a solid exposition. Even in ME1 you get the chance to talk to Jensen getting lost on Eden Prime. So there's more than an anonimous pixelpile getting shot - if you are willing to take that opportunity. Ad in DAII we're talking about a brother. That should account for more than "oh, my brother got mauled, what a tragedy!"

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

abaris wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I believe his point was how unlike previous Bio games they allowed the player to build a rapport with important characters, you had invested time and emotion in them. Whereas in DA 2, they just get mauled in short order. Making it hard to care what happens to them.

Precisely.

There's always time for a solid exposition. Even in ME1 you get the chance to talk to Jensen getting lost on Eden Prime. So there's more than an anonimous pixelpile getting shot - if you are willing to take that opportunity. Ad in DAII we're talking about a brother. That should account for more than "oh, my brother got mauled, what a tragedy!"

So let me get this straight, you wanted a large emotional attachment to a character we'd only seem for about 10 mins?
I know some people have valid concerns about DA2 but some seem to picking fights for non-reasons. Do what I do if you don't like a game, put it down to experience and move on.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Fair point, but I live in Aussie land. Game's like $90 here retail. 

As someone who's a fan of more classical crpgs with a strong choice & consequence dynamic, what I've seen from DA 2 is in no way reassuring.

The demo didn't exactly inspire confidence in me either. So I don't think I'll be buying the game anytime soon.

I could pirate it, but then, I'd never admit to that.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

mrcrusty wrote...

Fair point, but I live in Aussie land. Game's like $90 here retail. 

As someone who's a fan of more classical crpgs with a strong choice & consequence dynamic, what I've seen from DA 2 is in no way reassuring.

The demo didn't exactly inspire confidence in me either. So I don't think I'll be buying the game anytime soon.

I could pirate it, but then, I'd never admit to that.

The demo, to some extent, is different from the game, though the combat is the same.

I was a little like yourself, I loved Origins, but when I saw the art direction of DA2 i was really put off and wasn't going to get it, but as the release date got nearer I started to see glimpses of a very good game and relented: Now I will say its got issues and I'll be glad when this new patch comes out, but for me they aren't game breaking.

I try to ignore the repeating maps, for Bioware i'll give them a pass here, but if it happens again thats me not buying it i'm afraid - once bitten, twice shy.

Anyway there are alot of great characters and interaction in the game, the graphics are better - no i'm not a graphics **** but I like decent graphics, anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves, and would be mad if we got DA3 the text adventure - though some may revel i'm sure.

In short you can do alot worse than DA2, for me its about a 80% game, maybe a little bit more but not much, i'd give Origins about 85% to 90%.

So there you go.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Yours does seem to be the prevailing opinion I guess. Good game, but inferior sequel.

How does the choices & consequences mechanic work now?

It wasn't crazy Alpha Protocol levels of c&c but Origins did have quite a bit of multiple choice/solution quests with repercussions either immediate or long term. Does DA 2 still have that?

I've heard that you can't really affect the direction of the main plot. Same with Origins, but there was plenty of room to maneuver. (don't have to be specific in case of spoiling anything lol).

Thanks for your response though.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Kirkwall is less static than any citiy/region in Origins I've seen. If there's anything breaking immersion, it's definitely not the video you've shown, and --

Ixalmaris wrote...

PS: There are more people in the DA:O cutscene than in entire Kirkwall.

You've got me there. 

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 02 avril 2011 - 03:51 .

[Ixalmaris]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Kirkwall is less static than any citiy/region in Origins I've seen.

The story in Origins is not supposed to span 7 years.
Kirkwall not changing at all in all that time? Thats static.

[Serpieri Nei]

DA2 - lacks a lot more then just immersion. The game was simplified for the masses who have not bought the game because if they really wanted an AWESOME button they would't buy a hybrid, they would buy a game like God of War.

[Ixalmaris]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...
 the graphics are better

No, just no.
The graphics are horrible (thanks to console limitations, I pity those who can't get the high res pack).
And while DA2 manages to shine in 1-2 areas in teh game the rest is ugly, not neccessarily because of technical issues, but simply because the artist/designer didn't put much effort in it and we are left with a grey-brown wasteland and lego city.

[AkiKishi]

DA2 has no idea what it wants to be, it's a Hawkes Mom of a game.

It tries to be button=awsome, but still carries over the same basic combat from DA, except at such a pace that being tactical is like playing in 1 frame motion.

It tries to be newbie friendly, then has one of the most unforgiving build systems I've seen in a while.

It's just a mess that lacks a coherent direction and ends up as awkward Frankensteins monster of mixed influences.