158 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

BUUUUUUMP

[ISnowdropI]

Sadly, I do have to agree with you about the lack of immersion. Don't get me wrong, there WERE improvements in DA2 but I won't list them all out here, however I think ultimately it was the lack of emotion as you said, and the lack of "epic-ness" that made me disappointed about the game. That is not to say it was a bad sequel, just that personally, I will go for the kinds of games that have that high fantasy game-style.
Overall, I enjoyed DA2 though not hardly as much as Origins.

[Aradace]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aradace wrote...

One word OP: Opinion.
Posting links etc for comparison does not make your point "fact". Despite what you may think, as much as it may displease you, it is, and forever will be, an "opinion." I for one enjoyed the story in DA2 far more than Origins.

Since when are "enjoying the story" and "game being immersive" one and the same?

Because for me, it was "immersive".  You're welcome to your "opinion" of it not being "immersive" just dont try to pass off that opinion as fact like it seemed you were doing. 

Immersiveness is something that is not completely subjective, as it relies on believable/realistic elements.

I can dive in knee-deep water. That doesn't make the pool I'm swiming in deep....

Nice story bro, but it's still an OPINION.

[Tirigon]

Aradace wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aradace wrote...

One word OP: Opinion.
Posting links etc for comparison does not make your point "fact". Despite what you may think, as much as it may displease you, it is, and forever will be, an "opinion." I for one enjoyed the story in DA2 far more than Origins.

Since when are "enjoying the story" and "game being immersive" one and the same?

Because for me, it was "immersive".  You're welcome to your "opinion" of it not being "immersive" just dont try to pass off that opinion as fact like it seemed you were doing. 

Immersiveness is something that is not completely subjective, as it relies on believable/realistic elements.

I can dive in knee-deep water. That doesn't make the pool I'm swiming in deep....

Nice story bro, but it's still an OPINION.

Naa, he´s right and you´re blubbering nonsense trying to win a battle you lost looong ago.

Stop it, it disgraces you.

/end

[Aradace]

@Tirigon - So essentially what you're saying is that since YOU think it's not immersive that anyone who thinks it is,is either lying and/or wrong? That in and of itself shows how ignorant you really are lol.  While you're at it with your telling people what they can and cannot think, why dont you just go ahead and tatoo that swatztika on your forehead while screaming ZEIK HEIL!!!  Since you believe that your way of thinking is the only one there is.

Modifié par Aradace, 03 avril 2011 - 06:15 .

[Tirigon]

Aradace wins 5 Godwin points for AWESOME argumentative abilities.

No, the thing is this: You can LIKE the game, because that´s, like, personal opinion and all. But that doesn´t make it immersive.
Lotion was spot-on with his allegory: Some people ENJOY diving in knee-deep water, and that´s fine. Bt if they claim it´s deep it makes them seem retarded.

And you, on account of having no f*cking argument, then come blubbering nonsense.
The fact that you insult me now just proves my point.

[Aradace]

Tirigon wrote...

Aradace wins 5 Godwin points for AWESOME argumentative abilities.

No, the thing is this: You can LIKE the game, because that´s, like, personal opinion and all. But that doesn´t make it immersive.
Lotion was spot-on with his allegory: Some people ENJOY diving in knee-deep water, and that´s fine. Bt if they claim it´s deep it makes them seem retarded.

And you, on account of having no f*cking argument, then come blubbering nonsense.
The fact that you insult me now just proves my point.

And you just proved mine.  Thanks hitler for letting me know what I do and do not find immersive.  Why stop there then? Why not go on to tell folks that actually like the game that they're wrong in that too.  You really should consider a career in politics because you're damn good at telling people what they can and cannot think.  By the dictionary defintion of the word, I found the story very immersive.  Of course, now youll say that the dictionary is wrong too and that the defintion should be altered to fit what YOU think it is right?

[Tirigon]

Are you really that stupid or are you just acting, Aradace?

As I said, you can find immersive whatever you like, but that doesn´t make it true.


You call me Hitler for "telling people what to think", yet that´s EXACTLY what you do.

Gotta looooove the irony.

And besides, stop insulting me or I´ll report. We can discuss in a civil manner if you wish (and are mentally able to do so) but I don´t go into flamewars with a n@zi.

[Aradace]

Tirigon wrote...

Are you really that stupid or are you just acting, Aradace?

As I said, you can find immersive whatever you like, but that doesn´t make it true.


You call me Hitler for "telling people what to think", yet that´s EXACTLY what you do.

Gotta looooove the irony.

And besides, stop insulting me or I´ll report. We can discuss in a civil manner if you wish (and are mentally able to do so) but I don´t go into flamewars with a n@zi.

There is no irony.  Where in ANY of my posts (I challenge you to show me where) where I was even IMPLYING that I was telling people how to think?  Where as with you and Lotion, you both essentially came off as "If you find the game immersive you're wrong" the implication was there.  Secondly, not to sound childish about it but, you did start the personal attacks and not me.  But I agree, since neither of us seem to want to discuss this in a civil manner, we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that. 

Modifié par Aradace, 03 avril 2011 - 06:41 .

[Tirigon]

Aradace wrote...

There is no irony.  Where in ANY of my posts (I challenge you to show me where) where I was even IMPLYING that I was telling people how to think? 

You tell people that immersion is an opinion when it is actually not....

Secondly, not to sound childish about it but, you did start the personal attacks and not me. 

No I didn´t. I simply stated that arguing over an argument that is lost already makes one seem stupid.

I do admit that I did so in a rather hostile fashion, and for that I apologize. (I´m sadly pretty pissed atm because of real life issues and overreacted).
But my point still stands.

[Aradace]

Tirigon wrote...

Aradace wrote...

There is no irony.  Where in ANY of my posts (I challenge you to show me where) where I was even IMPLYING that I was telling people how to think? 

You tell people that immersion is an opinion when it is actually not....

Secondly, not to sound childish about it but, you did start the personal attacks and not me. 

No I didn´t. I simply stated that arguing over an argument that is lost already makes one seem stupid.

I do admit that I did so in a rather hostile fashion, and for that I apologize. (I´m sadly pretty pissed atm because of real life issues and overreacted).
But my point still stands.

*shrugs* You know what? It's really not worth arguing at this point.  Sorry I even said anything.  Apparently saying on a regular basis that my way of thinking in no way reflects others and stating several times that it's just MY opinion isnt enough. 

[AlanC9]

How is the argument "lost," though? I get that you and Lotion don't agree with it, but that's not exactly the same thing.

[Monica83]

i love trigon!

[Aradace]

AlanC9 wrote...

How is the argument "lost," though? I get that you and Lotion don't agree with it, but that's not exactly the same thing.

Doesnt matter because apparently IM the n-azi here heh.

[Baelyn]

Tirigon wrote...

Aradace wrote...

There is no irony.  Where in ANY of my posts (I challenge you to show me where) where I was even IMPLYING that I was telling people how to think? 

You tell people that immersion is an opinion when it is actually not....

Secondly, not to sound childish about it but, you did start the personal attacks and not me. 

No I didn´t. I simply stated that arguing over an argument that is lost already makes one seem stupid.

I do admit that I did so in a rather hostile fashion, and for that I apologize. (I´m sadly pretty pissed atm because of real life issues and overreacted).
But my point still stands.

Immersion is a highly subjective term. It will differ highly from person to person because people's perceptions are different. You cannot say definitively that one game is immersive or is not because just because it caused you to lose immersion doesn't mean that it will cause everyone to lose immersion.

Something that one person finds immersive another might find immersion breaking. 

[Monica83]

Detailed Story=Immersion
Well maded areas with lot of details=Immerision
Customizability:Immersion
Detailed Dialogues=Immersion
Detailed Companion=immersion
Flashy anime animation=no immersion because they create a sort of conflict with the style of dragon age... You move like ninja gaiden an the ennemy moves normal...
Ambient interaction=Immersion (i almost laught when i used blood magic on front of two templars and they did nothing XD) i remember the BG2 in akhtlaka when you cast something the wizard come to warn you and if you continue they will kick your but... (that's immersion)

[Elanareon]

Aether99 wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DA2 is an action game with a really good cinematic story.  Everything evolves in action.  The personalities evolve in action.  The story unfolds through action.  You have to pay attention as story elements come quickly surrounded by action.

Indeed so we got action rpg, with crappy story. Instead of proper rpg where everything doesn't revolve around action like DA:O.

Look I don't know about you, but I expected DA2 to be proper rpg, not action rpg that it turned out to be.

It is not wrong to assume that sequel tries to stay loyal to its predecessor. I didn't expect plot to have any relevance to origins, but I did expected an rpg with more in it than action.

actually the only time its not wrong to assume is when youve been told the outcome. 

Well, to be fair, they only said they revamped the combat to be more "actiony". They didn't say they'd remove most of the RPG elements, or simplify those RPG elements....

[Aradace]

Monica83 wrote...

Detailed Story=Immersion
Well maded areas with lot of details=Immerision
Customizability:Immersion
Detailed Dialogues=Immersion
Detailed Companion=immersion
Flashy anime animation=no immersion because they create a sort of conflict with the style of dragon age... You move like ninja gaiden an the ennemy moves normal...
Ambient interaction=Immersion (i almost laught when i used blood magic on front of two templars and they did nothing XD) i remember the BG2 in akhtlaka when you cast something the wizard come to warn you and if you continue they will kick your but... (that's immersion)

And yet despite that, it is your OPINION.  Using your example; Detailed story, yep I experienced that with DA2 and found that immersive.  Let's see, well made areas, ok, admittedly that one is lacking in DA2 but that's not enough for it to change my OPINION.  Customizability, yep, was able to customize not only my character, but the rest of my party as well (aside from armor but yet again, thats not enough to break immersion for me) Detailed dialogs, definate yes for me.  Detailed companions, yep.  Even Sebastian who I hated.

Flahsy anime action, not even worth mentioning really because thats more of a preference thing than immersion IMO.  Ambient interaction, admittedly on that one I would have liked it if NPCs reacted to my mage being a Blood Mage.  But again, still not enough to break immersion.  Hell, if anything broke MY immersion of the game, it's the bugs and glitches.  Beyond that, using your example, I still found the game and overall story very immersive. 

Despite what you think Immersion IS a very subjective term because just like someone else said before me.  People's perceptions vary greatly from person to person. 

Again , you're welcome to your view, just dont try to say that theres only ONE definition of the word.  The definition will vary from person to person regardless of what you think.  Even the dictionary definition of the word is just one of many ways of looking at it.

Modifié par Aradace, 03 avril 2011 - 07:14 .

[Elanareon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aradace wrote...

One word OP: Opinion.
Posting links etc for comparison does not make your point "fact". Despite what you may think, as much as it may displease you, it is, and forever will be, an "opinion." I for one enjoyed the story in DA2 far more than Origins.

Since when are "enjoying the story" and "game being immersive" one and the same?

In RPG games...

[Tirigon]

Monica83 wrote...

i love trigon!

Irony or reality?

Either way thank you

[Tirigon]

Aradace wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Detailed Story=Immersion
Well maded areas with lot of details=Immerision
Customizability:Immersion
Detailed Dialogues=Immersion
Detailed Companion=immersion
Flashy anime animation=no immersion because they create a sort of conflict with the style of dragon age... You move like ninja gaiden an the ennemy moves normal...
Ambient interaction=Immersion (i almost laught when i used blood magic on front of two templars and they did nothing XD) i remember the BG2 in akhtlaka when you cast something the wizard come to warn you and if you continue they will kick your but... (that's immersion)

And yet despite that, it is your OPINION.  Using your example; Detailed story, yep I experienced that with DA2 and found that immersive.  Let's see, well made areas, ok, admittedly that one is lacking in DA2 but that's not enough for it to change my OPINION.  Customizability, yep, was able to customize not only my character, but the rest of my party as well (aside from armor but yet again, thats not enough to break immersion for me) Detailed dialogs, definate yes for me.  Detailed companions, yep.  Even Sebastian who I hated.

Flahsy anime action, not even worth mentioning really because thats more of a preference thing than immersion IMO.  Ambient interaction, admittedly on that one I would have liked it if NPCs reacted to my mage being a Blood Mage.  But again, still not enough to break immersion.  Hell, if anything broke MY immersion of the game, it's the bugs and glitches.  Beyond that, using your example, I still found the game and overall story very immersive. 

Despite what you think Immersion IS a very subjective term because just like someone else said before me.  People's perceptions vary greatly from person to person. 

Again , you're welcome to your view, just dont try to say that theres only ONE definition of the word.  The definition will vary from person to person regardless of what you think.  Even the dictionary definition of the word is just one of many ways of looking at it.

So, I guess, when all is said and done we actually agree, only the word immersion has a widely different interpretation all around.

Interesting. Maybe we should use numbers instead, they are objective and not a matter of opinion.

[Aradace]

Tirigon wrote...

So, I guess, when all is said and done we actually agree, only the word immersion has a widely different interpretation all around.

Interesting. Maybe we should use numbers instead, they are objective and not a matter of opinion.

It's like I always say;  Math is the only universal truth.  Anything else, is subjective and open to interpretation from person to person.

[Tirigon]

Aradace wrote...

It's like I always say;  Math is the only universal truth.  Anything else, is subjective and open to interpretation from person to person.

Tis true.

The less friendly version of this saying is that maths is for people who can´t handle reality and want rigid rules for everything

I suppose this is also partly true.


One needs both, objective truths and common sense

Modifié par Tirigon, 03 avril 2011 - 07:41 .

[Aradace]

Tirigon wrote...

Aradace wrote...

It's like I always say;  Math is the only universal truth.  Anything else, is subjective and open to interpretation from person to person.

Tis true.

The less friendly version of this saying is that maths is for people who can´t handle reality and want rigid rules for everything

I suppose this is also partly true.

LOL I suck at math to be honest.  I dont like dealing in absolutes

[Lotion Soronarr]

Aradace wrote...

@Tirigon - So essentially what you're saying is that since YOU think it's not immersive that anyone who thinks it is,is either lying and/or wrong? That in and of itself shows how ignorant you really are lol.  While you're at it with your telling people what they can and cannot think, why dont you just go ahead and tatoo that swatztika on your forehead while screaming ZEIK HEIL!!!  Since you believe that your way of thinking is the only one there is.

Nah..what people are saying is that it's LESS immersive than DA:O and many other games. It certanly has immersive elements of it's own (having a family, some companions), but it has less of them and a lot more immersion breaking elements (like you being a (blood)mage having no influence on the templars, oversized swords, overused gore, no real feel of the time-skip, etc...)

Again, beliving that just because you can immerse yourself in the game that MUST mean the game is incredibly immersive is a falacy.
I can eat hot chilly peppers that would burn out your throat...I got used to them. Does that mean that they aren't spicy? Nah, they are spicy - I just built up a very high tolerance to it.

Likewise, some people just have a very low immersion treshold.