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Why can't there be a good girl?


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#76
Kelston

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Sadare wrote...

Possible, but thinking more of a proper warrior class tank with access to the taunts and the warrior like skills that the other male chars have (sten, Alistar, Og'n)  Maybe they will launch a female tank as further dlc as time goes on ?

But i guess on my  next run thorugh ill make female tank char and go that route. 

 


There is another female that can serve as a proper tank but I didn't want to spoil anything.

#77
Darpaek

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Wynne FOR THE WIN! Yeah!

Hot MILF Action... I'd DLC that ass for a dollar...

Modifié par Darpaek, 19 novembre 2009 - 03:09 .


#78
CalibanX

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I just wish Shale and the Dwarf could get together. What sweet, sweet music their love would make.

#79
MartinJHolm

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Acesahn wrote...

Then we got Leliana. Religous... kind... at first glance. Of course when you find out she used to be a spy who specialized in becoming whatever type of woman her target desired and practically boasts she can bag any man. File that under "ThingsI would have rather not known about.

You're right I did not wanna know that, thanks for the spoiler.

#80
Leather_Rebel90

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Leliana is a nice girl, romantic and shy and 'cute'. Just my type.

#81
Acesahn

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Leliana is a hypocrit, capable of falling back to her amoral lifestyle with little effort... At least Morrigan is honest with herself lol

#82
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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EVERYONE is a hypocrite.



I, found Leliana a very complex & interesting character. She is very easy to warm up to, but hard to know. And she turned me into a real softie...

#83
thegreateski

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I thought you would already know that all women are evil, soul destroying, life draining demons.







No, I'm not bitter.

#84
Wishpig

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Zevran has the faults of Morrigan and Leliana so it evens out... kinda... right?

#85
Hayllee

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thegreateski wrote...

I thought you would already know that all women are evil, soul destroying, life draining demons.



No, I'm not bitter.


No, you're honest. :devil:

I think Zev sucks. I know he does in the literaly sense also. Freagin' horny, bi, slightly ugly, elf. :sick:

#86
Axekix

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Wynne is a very good girl! :wub:

Modifié par Axekix, 07 février 2010 - 02:01 .


#87
grieferbastard

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While Alistair may be the 'perfect romance option' pretty much every plot option with him is tragic. In fact all the love interests are inherently flawed. They should be; it's a dark drama RPG. There is no 'happily ever after' ending for anyone. Except possibly Oghren, if you give him a pile of money and send him to the Pearl.

Both the female love interests are a bit crazy and totally emotionally damaged goods. I find this more realistic than just about any other RPG I've run into.

#88
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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Axekix wrote...

Wynne is a very good girl! :wub:


With a magic bossom! Image IPB

#89
RangerSG

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MartinJHolm wrote...

Acesahn wrote...

Then we got Leliana. Religous... kind... at first glance. Of course when you find out she used to be a spy who specialized in becoming whatever type of woman her target desired and practically boasts she can bag any man. File that under "ThingsI would have rather not known about.

You're right I did not wanna know that, thanks for the spoiler.


Indeed, this really belonged in the spoiler forum if you were going to talk about specfic dialogues. Besides which, I would say you over-interpreted what she said. You do realize it is much harder to romance her as a girl than a guy, right? That mitigates against the said "preference" right there, without going into details.

Leliana's adorable. And being religious without being self-righteous about it is a nice combination. As for her "boasts", I file that in "I am proud of the talents I've developed, even if I'm no longer proud of how I gained them." I don't think that's an unhealthy attitude at all.

#90
purplesunset

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This happened because Dragon Age is just another product of the  "it's good to be baaaad" cultural trope.

The bad anti-hero type dominates books, TV, and movies.  Bad is seen as cooler than good.


What eventually happened is we have reached a point where the "cool to be bad"  trope is no longer original. It pops up everywhere. All we get is a bunch of self-absorbed prima donnas trying to out-cool and out-bad each other. (This is why I hated Wolverine from the X-men movies. Talk about a scenery chewing, grandstanding ******* all in the name of being a "cool" anti-hero)

Quite frankly, I"m tired of it all. It has reached a point where seeing a faithful, lawful good paladin would actually be original.  Or the sweet, girl-next-door who you would love to bring home to mommy would be a breath of fresh air.

People need to realize that being good is actually cooler than being bad. Being good is not neutral. Just because you pay your taxes, and never commit a crime, doesn't mean you're good, you're just neutral.

Goodness is a constant struggle.

Goodness takes active effort.

The sweet, good girl is actually cooler because it's so easy to slip into evil. It's easier to be the narcisistic prima donna like Morrigan. Self-preservation (which drives characters like Morrigan) is a basic instinct that even the lowest life forms share. What's so cool about that?

Modifié par purplesunset, 07 février 2010 - 02:50 .


#91
Kerilus

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One process of male growing up is to realize there's no "good girl".

#92
RangerSG

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purplesunset wrote...

This happened because Dragon Age is just another product of the  "it's good to be baaaad" cultural trope.

The bad anti-hero type dominates books, TV, and movies.  Bad is seen as cooler than good.


What eventually happened is we have reached a point where the "cool to be bad"  trope is no longer original. It pops up everywhere. All we get is a bunch of self-absorbed prima donnas trying to out-cool and out-bad each other. (This is why I hated Wolverine from the X-men movies. Talk about a scenery chewing, grandstanding ******* all in the name of being a "cool" anti-hero)

Quite frankly, I"m tired of it all. It has reached a point where seeing a faithful, lawful good paladin would actually be original.  Or the sweet, girl-next-door who you would love to bring home to mommy would be a breath of fresh air.

People need to realize that being good is actually cooler than being bad. Being good is not neutral. Just because you pay your taxes, and never commit a crime, doesn't mean you're good, you're just neutral.

Goodness is a constant struggle.

Goodness takes active effort.

The sweet, good girl is actually cooler because it's so easy to slip into evil. It's easier to be the narcisistic prima donna like Morrigan. Self-preservation (which drives characters like Morrigan) is a basic instinct that even the lowest life forms share. What's so cool about that?


While I don't entirely agree that Leliana is a "bad girl" or an "anti-heroine," I do agree with much of what you say. We've gotten to the point in literature and gaming both where the anti-hero is so dominant that when we see a true hero the first assumption we make is, "This guy is going to betray us or fail."

Heroes aren't given a chance to be heroic anymore. And while I don't dislike Wolverine as a character, I do think the desire to clone him 50,000 times gets old.

Now, that said, let me add this; I do think that making "snow-white" characters is dull. A character is heroic in no small part because they overcome their own failures. Physical, emotional, or moral. That's why I like Leliana. In no small part, she does overcome her past to become a better person and make the world around her a better place, despite the fact she easily could become as self-serving as many other characters.

It's one of the reasons I like The Dresden Files, for instance. Harry is always making himself out to be this "hard" person. But when push comes to shove, for all Harry's snark, he is going to do the right thing, and you know it. (Hence the tombstone that the vampires bought for him.) Jim Butcher plays with your expectation that Dresden is going to be an anti-hero. But at the end of the day, he's about as close to a "white-knight" as the world can stand. And because he is such a white-hat, he gets loads of grief he wouldn't get if he covered his butt more.

#93
Dlokir

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No good girl? And for who is Alistair? For the pigs? Clearly not, Alistair is the good girl of the game, one is enough no need of two.

EDIT: My bad, there's only one good girl, you ladies, playing the MC. Why bother have some competition???

Modifié par Dlokir, 07 février 2010 - 04:11 .


#94
SleeplessInSigil

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Good girl? Sure there are good girls, like mai waifu here:wub:

#95
purplesunset

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RangerSG wrote...

While I don't entirely agree that Leliana is a "bad girl" or an "anti-heroine," I do agree with much of what you say. We've gotten to the point in literature and gaming both where the anti-hero is so dominant that when we see a true hero the first assumption we make is, "This guy is going to betray us or fail."

Heroes aren't given a chance to be heroic anymore. And while I don't dislike Wolverine as a character, I do think the desire to clone him 50,000 times gets old.

Now, that said, let me add this; I do think that making "snow-white" characters is dull. A character is heroic in no small part because they overcome their own failures. Physical, emotional, or moral. That's why I like Leliana. In no small part, she does overcome her past to become a better person and make the world around her a better place, despite the fact she easily could become as self-serving as many other characters.

It's one of the reasons I like The Dresden Files, for instance. Harry is always making himself out to be this "hard" person. But when push comes to shove, for all Harry's snark, he is going to do the right thing, and you know it. (Hence the tombstone that the vampires bought for him.) Jim Butcher plays with your expectation that Dresden is going to be an anti-hero. But at the end of the day, he's about as close to a "white-knight" as the world can stand. And because he is such a white-hat, he gets loads of grief he wouldn't get if he covered his butt more.


Well spoken. We actually agree because I did say that being good involves a constant struggle.  If a character was snow-white perfect, that's NOT being good, that's being both boring and unrealistic.

I just wish that writers would stop swinging the pendulum too much to the other side (in their effort to avoid making a perfect character) by creating all these self-serving "bad-ass" anti-heroes who, to me, have become just as boring as the perfect snow-white types.

Modifié par purplesunset, 07 février 2010 - 05:03 .


#96
Murphys_Law

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purplesunset wrote...

This happened because Dragon Age is just another product of the  "it's good to be baaaad" cultural trope.

The bad anti-hero type dominates books, TV, and movies.  Bad is seen as cooler than good.


What eventually happened is we have reached a point where the "cool to be bad"  trope is no longer original. It pops up everywhere. All we get is a bunch of self-absorbed prima donnas trying to out-cool and out-bad each other. (This is why I hated Wolverine from the X-men movies. Talk about a scenery chewing, grandstanding ******* all in the name of being a "cool" anti-hero)

Quite frankly, I"m tired of it all. It has reached a point where seeing a faithful, lawful good paladin would actually be original.  Or the sweet, girl-next-door who you would love to bring home to mommy would be a breath of fresh air.

People need to realize that being good is actually cooler than being bad. Being good is not neutral. Just because you pay your taxes, and never commit a crime, doesn't mean you're good, you're just neutral.

Goodness is a constant struggle.

Goodness takes active effort.

The sweet, good girl is actually cooler because it's so easy to slip into evil. It's easier to be the narcisistic prima donna like Morrigan. Self-preservation (which drives characters like Morrigan) is a basic instinct that even the lowest life forms share. What's so cool about that?


I was thinking along the same lines, while I was reading this thread too.  There are some many different ways people can be good as well due in no small part to personalities, backgrounds, emotions.  It's not as if someone who is "good" has to be some super friendly, 24/7 caring person aka the perfect white knight.

#97
thegreateski

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Dlokir wrote...

No good girl? And for who is Alistair? For the pigs? Clearly not, Alistair is the good girl of the game, one is enough no need of two.

I believe we have a winner.

#98
Maria Caliban

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Leliana is a good girl. She's just a well-rounded good girl as opposed to some bizarre, virginal ideal of what good girls are like. How does her having sex or preferring women make her less sweet, kind, and gentle?

That some people describe Leliana as 'cool to be bad' or 'anti-hero' boggles my mind. She had to be more mild-mannered than 75% of the women I meet in real life.

marshalleck wrote...

**spoiler**

Well there's the bit about watching you sleep and wanting to catch your eyelashes like butterflies and keep them in a jar.


And that's delightful.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 07 février 2010 - 06:30 .


#99
Pinkleaf

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I play the part as the nice girl. :-)

#100
Spitz6860

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i don't know, can't you be a better guy? *zinc* lol