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[Sarielle]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Walina wrote...

To add oil on fire, Leliana isn't at all a good girl, if you bring her to the sacred urn, the guardian will tel you that Leliana never had a vision and was only bored so she imagined a story like this to get your attention.

I'm pretty sure I trust long-time companion over one-shot NPC.

I realize you really have an ubercrush on the character....but I trust the NPC that knows a HELL of a lot of intimate details of all the characters' lives, when by rights, only the characters themselves should.

Said NPC also suggested my PC felt guilty about her past, when she didn't. The NPC is probing you and your various companions; they are not all knowing.

Coupled with the lies Leliana has told in the past -- and frankly, has boasted about how deceit and a listening ear let her into people's confidences -- and that's plenty for me.

fchopin wrote...

It seams to me that you want a good girl to cook when in camp and say nice things but nothing else.
 
I personally would not like such a person in my team as I need killers in my team, killers are not nice people what ever you say as they have to be ruthless and always win no matter the situation.
 
Leliana is about the best we will get when it comes to good girls, she is a killer at heart but can also be nice.

You don't read so well, do you?

How
does Alistair fit into your team? He advocates the morally "good" choice (with his own prejudices colouring that, of course) and kills just fine.

Also, for the record, I AM FEMALE there genius. So no, I hardly am advocating that a nice girl needs to sit in camp and cook for me.

I see no reason why you couldn't have, say, a warrior female who does her duty but is concerned with honor as well, for instance. Again, good does not have to mean a wilting violet.


EDIT: By your logic, no solder could ever be a good person.

Modifié par Sarielle, 10 février 2010 - 05:03 .

[Hyper Cutter]

Vicious wrote...

There is one. She's called Tali.

Or you mean Dragon Age. lol

Tali is pretty much exactly the sort of "good girl" character we seem to be wanting here...

[fchopin]

Sarielle wrote...
How
does Alistair fit into your team? He advocates the morally "good" choice (with his own prejudices colouring that, of course) and kills just fine.

Also, for the record, I AM FEMALE there genius. So no, I hardly am advocating that a nice girl needs to sit in camp and cook for me.

I see no reason why you couldn't have, say, a warrior female who does her duty but is concerned with honor as well, for instance. Again, good does not have to mean a wilting violet.


EDIT: By your logic, no solder could ever be a good person.

Alistair does not fit in to the team, he is part of the story like a cannon.
He is also a grey warden so he will do whatever is necessary to accomplish the job no matter how dirty the job is. Same with all the team members.
 
If a team member does not agree then there is only one answer, do what the pc says or they are out.
 
It is not possible for a team member to be nice and hold to their principles because the pc can tell them no and just do what i say, if it was possible then there would be 2 leaders and that is not possible.
 
A team member can only be as good as the pc allows them to be.

[Sarielle]

fchopin wrote...

Sarielle wrote...
How
does Alistair fit into your team? He advocates the morally "good" choice (with his own prejudices colouring that, of course) and kills just fine.

Also, for the record, I AM FEMALE there genius. So no, I hardly am advocating that a nice girl needs to sit in camp and cook for me.

I see no reason why you couldn't have, say, a warrior female who does her duty but is concerned with honor as well, for instance. Again, good does not have to mean a wilting violet.


EDIT: By your logic, no solder could ever be a good person.

Alistair does not fit in to the team, he is part of the story like a cannon.
He is also a grey warden so he will do whatever is necessary to accomplish the job no matter how dirty the job is. Same with all the team members.
 
If a team member does not agree then there is only one answer, do what the pc says or they are out.
 
It is not possible for a team member to be nice and hold to their principles because the pc can tell them no and just do what i say, if it was possible then there would be 2 leaders and that is not possible.
 
A team member can only be as good as the pc allows them to be.

-sigh- Now we're getting into game mechanics stuff. He does protest, and you do lose approval if you do immoral things. Same with Wynn. In extreme circumstances people will leave your team, but if they just said "F you" the first time they disagreed, the game could be pretty dicey.

Neither of them condone the morally "bad" choices you, as the PC, can make. Game mechanics force them to help you anyways.

Also, I got a great chuckle over Alistair being "like a cannon." I'm not sure I want to analyze closely precisely what that means, lol.

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

allistair is a pansy-



given his upbringing in the templars and chantry its pretty obvious that he is only applying his "virgin" status to women. he used to have pillow fights with the other templars....

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'll say it again. The human Noble origin ... Teyrna Eleanor Cousland, the Warden's mother, is the perfect template for one kind of romanceable woman that would be 100% more appealing to me than either Lelianna or Morrigan were. A young noble battlemaid, unafraid to speak her mind, and desiring to make her own way in the world.



Lanaya, the Dale Elf Keeper's Apprentice ... she has as tragic a backstory as either of the existing women NPCs ... but she chooses to "put things in perspective" and grow stronger from her past rather than run from it. I admire that in a woman.

[Sarielle]

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

allistair is a pansy-

given
his upbringing in the templars and chantry its pretty obvious that he is only applying his "virgin" status to women. he used to have pillow fights with the other templars....

I have no idea what that would have to do with his moral choices, even were it true.

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

I'll say it again. The human Noble origin ... Teyrna Eleanor Cousland, the Warden's mother, is the perfect template for one kind of romanceable woman that would be 100% more appealing to me than either Lelianna or Morrigan were. A young noble battlemaid, unafraid to speak her mind, and desiring to make her own way in the world.

Lanaya, the Dale Elf Keeper's Apprentice ... she has as tragic a backstory as either of the existing women NPCs ... but she chooses to "put things in perspective" and grow stronger from her past rather than run from it. I admire that in a woman.

^This. Both those examples fit my definition of "good girls."

I'm really surprised that some people seem to equate the ability to kill with not being good. I can think of a ton of reasons to kill that I personally would consider good. Protecting self, protecting family, protecting country (please please PLEASE let's leave modern politics out of that one, lol).


EDIT: I hate stupid formatting. <_<

Modifié par Sarielle, 10 février 2010 - 06:47 .

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

guess what?



the "loving and perfect" nice girl is rare in reality.



how is leliana NOT such a girl too? she had a "troubled" past. and her relationship with marjorline seemed mroe like she was a young girl bieng manipulated by a master manipulator- listen to her, what she claims to have done to others- marjorline became to her.



just don't harden her.

[Randomname1212]

Sarielle wrote...

Zugin wrote...

What would be interesting is not cartoonish "good girl" they just don't exist and are boring to begin with (unless you are jerking off to some manga). But a really strong intelligent personality who values duty, honor etc. If anyone read Shogun by James Clavell, someone like Mariko.

Didn't read that, but yes. That to me is what a "good girl" is who'd work in the Wardens. Who doesn't lie or sleep her way through situations, etc.

So THAT is what you meant by good girl? If so then yes, it would be cool to see a companion like that.

[fchopin]

I agree with Eleanor Cousland but not sure about Lanaya.

[Randomname1212]

fchopin wrote...

I agree with Eleanor Cousland but not sure about Lanaya.

I  sort of do. She had souch a rough time with Humans that I am surprised she didn't go in a killing spree on a human city. She was actually pretty kind to my Warden, unlike most other elves.

[_Aine_]

You don't have to be "nice" to be "good" any more than you have to be crazy to be interesting.

To my mind, a "good" character that I would love to have around would be saucy, sarcastic sense of humour, willing to fight and even kill for the greater good. She may even enjoy it! But she does it for the benefit of humanity, not because it is enjoyable/pleasurable or fills her personal needs. Doesnt use people simply to exploit her own power and can relax with the men but purely enjoys being a woman. History is full of normal "good" women who have proven deadly when crossed or their families/lives are threatened. I think its possible.

Modifié par shantisands, 10 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[Randomname1212]

I guess Wynne could be considered good, but she is too "grand-motherly".

[Zugin]

I think many of us find it strange that people think that seducing, lieing, torturing etc is somehow worse then killing. Do you think mom Cousland would hesitate for a second if deciding is she need torture someone if it helped protecting the family? Do you think keeper of a clan would histate to order torture and cold blooded murder of some shamlin if she thought it would be usefull to the clan?

Once you start taking lives with hand to hand weapons, watch person die as you drive that point into them, most of the scurples that people here talk about really mean nothing anymore.

Modifié par Zugin, 10 février 2010 - 07:14 .

[RangerSG]

I'd agree that the chance to meet a woman like a younger version of the Teyrna would be nice. I'm not sure how much of a "good girl" she was when she was younger. She has spitfires for children, and that can't all come from Bryce. So I would hardly be surprised if, for all her present dignity, there was not at least *some* degree of wild in her childhood.



Not that "wild" means "bad" necessarily.

[Randomname1212]

Well in a world like Dragon Age, you can't exactly use diplomacy to solve your problems. Yes, murder is bad. But killing people out of self-defense, or if there really is a good reason to it, then I guess it can't really be frowned upon that much. Personally, I prefer to use diplomacy over action whenever is possible, but at times when you are surrounded by bandits who want to slit your throat. What other choice do you have to get out of it?

[SuperMedbh]

There is a medieval notion of "honour and glory" in combat which isn't as prevalent anymore (the veterans I've known have all simply said that war is hell). Perhaps it comes from growing up in world in which the corpses of criminals would be hung to rot on the street corner, but the notion that killing is intrinsically evil wouldn't make sense to a medieval person.



Think of King Cailan's view of the upcoming invasion. Honestly, there were a lot of nobility back in the day who'd profess similar viewpoints. War was a chance for great deeds and renown. On the other hand, Machiavellian sentiments were not so highly regarded. Not to say that they didn't engage in literally cut throat politics-- far from it! --but people wouldn't admit it as readily.



It might seem odd that Leliana's wholesale slaughtering with her bow would be a more honourable thing than pretending to be someone's friend, but that's certainly how many back in the day would regard it.

[Curlain]

Zugin wrote...

I think many of us find it strange that people think that seducing, lieing, torturing etc is somehow worse then killing. Do you think mom Cousland would hesitate for a second if deciding is she need torture someone if it helped protecting the family? Do you think keeper of a clan would histate to order torture and cold blooded murder of some shamlin if she thought it would be usefull to the clan?

Once you start taking lives with hand to hand weapons, watch person die as you drive that point into them, most of the scurples that people here talk about really mean nothing anymore.

I don't think this is necessarily true, soldiers have to kill sometimes, but they don't all start condoning torture as an acceptable method of warfare (indeed a number of veterans from say WWII around the world that are still alive would define one of the big differences between the West and the enemy at that time was that the western armies remained largely, though not always, true to the Geneva conventions in relation to treating enemy soldiers), nor does a policeman who has to shot someone to protect the citizens of his country suddenly lose lose his morals etc.

Taking a life is a massive thing, but it doesn't suddenly turn someone into an amoral person suddenly who no longer sees anything wrong in hurting or torturing someone else, or who begins killing for no reason (I'm assuming here that this person would obviously not condone torture etc to start with).  As for what the two characters mentioned above would do, we don't know, as they are never shown in these scenarios, though Dayana does ask for forgiveness in her pray to the Creators after you finish the Dalish quest (at which point she finds out what Zatherian did), which suggests she would be very reluctant to go done this route at the very least

Modifié par Curlain, 10 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[jselene]

Sarielle wrote...

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

I'll say it again. The human Noble origin ... Teyrna Eleanor Cousland, the Warden's mother, is the perfect template for one kind of romanceable woman that would be 100% more appealing to me than either Lelianna or Morrigan were. A young noble battlemaid, unafraid to speak her mind, and desiring to make her own way in the world.

Lanaya, the Dale Elf Keeper's Apprentice ... she has as tragic a backstory as either of the existing women NPCs ... but she chooses to "put things in perspective" and grow stronger from her past rather than run from it. I admire that in a woman.

^This. Both those examples fit my definition of "good girls."

I'm really surprised that some people seem to equate the ability to kill with not being good. I can think of a ton of reasons to kill that I personally would consider good. Protecting self, protecting family, protecting country (please please PLEASE let's leave modern politics out of that one, lol).


EDIT: I hate stupid formatting. <_<

To me, it's not the "good" but the "girls" part that's causing a misunderstanding.  It implies that the goodness comes from traits associated with youth--immaturity, "innocence," helplessness, etc.  What a lot of people seem to want here doesn't match up with the title... which seems to be asking for another Aerie, at best. 

Also: Lanaya.  It would be awesome if she were the blonde elven mage in Awakening!

[Curlain]

Dreaded Double Post <_<

Modifié par Curlain, 10 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[RangerSG]

jselene wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

I'll say it again. The human Noble origin ... Teyrna Eleanor Cousland, the Warden's mother, is the perfect template for one kind of romanceable woman that would be 100% more appealing to me than either Lelianna or Morrigan were. A young noble battlemaid, unafraid to speak her mind, and desiring to make her own way in the world.

Lanaya, the Dale Elf Keeper's Apprentice ... she has as tragic a backstory as either of the existing women NPCs ... but she chooses to "put things in perspective" and grow stronger from her past rather than run from it. I admire that in a woman.

^This. Both those examples fit my definition of "good girls."

I'm really surprised that some people seem to equate the ability to kill with not being good. I can think of a ton of reasons to kill that I personally would consider good. Protecting self, protecting family, protecting country (please please PLEASE let's leave modern politics out of that one, lol).


EDIT: I hate stupid formatting. <_<

To me, it's not the "good" but the "girls" part that's causing a misunderstanding.  It implies that the goodness comes from traits associated with youth--immaturity, "innocence," helplessness, etc.  What a lot of people seem to want here doesn't match up with the title... which seems to be asking for another Aerie, at best. 

Also: Lanaya.  It would be awesome if she were the blonde elven mage in Awakening!

"Innocence" in the sexual realm, yes. A high sense of morality without being preachy (much like Lel is now, IMHO, on this front).  But I didn't see anyone wanting "helpless" or "incapable of coping."

[RangerSG]

jselene wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote...

I'll say it again. The human Noble origin ... Teyrna Eleanor Cousland, the Warden's mother, is the perfect template for one kind of romanceable woman that would be 100% more appealing to me than either Lelianna or Morrigan were. A young noble battlemaid, unafraid to speak her mind, and desiring to make her own way in the world.

Lanaya, the Dale Elf Keeper's Apprentice ... she has as tragic a backstory as either of the existing women NPCs ... but she chooses to "put things in perspective" and grow stronger from her past rather than run from it. I admire that in a woman.

^This. Both those examples fit my definition of "good girls."

I'm really surprised that some people seem to equate the ability to kill with not being good. I can think of a ton of reasons to kill that I personally would consider good. Protecting self, protecting family, protecting country (please please PLEASE let's leave modern politics out of that one, lol).


EDIT: I hate stupid formatting. <_<

To me, it's not the "good" but the "girls" part that's causing a misunderstanding.  It implies that the goodness comes from traits associated with youth--immaturity, "innocence," helplessness, etc.  What a lot of people seem to want here doesn't match up with the title... which seems to be asking for another Aerie, at best. 

Also: Lanaya.  It would be awesome if she were the blonde elven mage in Awakening!

"Innocence" in the sexual realm, yes. A high sense of morality without being preachy (much like Lel is now, IMHO, on this front).  But I didn't see anyone wanting "helpless" or "incapable of coping."

[jselene]

Ack.  Double posting.  @_@

Modifié par jselene, 10 février 2010 - 08:00 .

[jselene]

RangerSG wrote...

"Innocence" in the sexual realm, yes. A high sense of morality without being preachy (much like Lel is now, IMHO, on this front).  But I didn't see anyone wanting "helpless" or "incapable of coping."

I never said they did.  I said that there was a misunderstanding going on, possibly because of the thread's title, that lead to the whole "you want a non-fighter LI who stays in the kitchen!" accusation. 
Edit: [Looks at Awakening forum] ...I really should've looked there before posting last time.    Also: *crosses fingers for the femwarrior in red armor to be an actual party member*

Modifié par jselene, 10 février 2010 - 08:18 .

[Randomname1212]

Whose to say they wont have a good girl in the next expansion, though?