230 réponses à ce sujet

[fchopin]

Randomname1212 wrote...

Whose to say they wont have a good girl in the next expansion, though?

Because WRPG’s usually have options for a person to be good and also bad at the same time.
 
JRPG’s which have more straight stories do have characters who are only good or bad.

[Zugin]

Curlain wrote...

Zugin wrote...

I think many of us find it strange that people think that seducing, lieing, torturing etc is somehow worse then killing. Do you think mom Cousland would hesitate for a second if deciding is she need torture someone if it helped protecting the family? Do you think keeper of a clan would histate to order torture and cold blooded murder of some shamlin if she thought it would be usefull to the clan?

Once you start taking lives with hand to hand weapons, watch person die as you drive that point into them, most of the scurples that people here talk about really mean nothing anymore.

I don't think this is necessarily true, soldiers have to kill sometimes, but they don't all start condoning torture as an acceptable method of warfare (indeed a number of veterans from say WWII around the world that are still alive would define one of the big differences between the West and the enemy at that time was that the western armies remained largely, though not always, true to the Geneva conventions in relation to treating enemy soldiers), nor does a policeman who has to shot someone to protect the citizens of his country suddenly lose lose his morals etc.

Taking a life is a massive thing, but it doesn't suddenly turn someone into an amoral person suddenly who no longer sees anything wrong in hurting or torturing someone else, or who begins killing for no reason (I'm assuming here that this person would obviously not condone torture etc to start with).  As for what the two characters mentioned above would do, we don't know, as they are never shown in these scenarios, though Dayana does ask for forgiveness in her pray to the Creators after you finish the Dalish quest (at which point she finds out what Zatherian did), which suggests she would be very reluctant to go done this route at the very least

You will not start killing for no reason. You can be moral, honorable highly regarded by society and at the same time being able to do anything that has to be done. There is a good statement about that in Apocalypse now (cutting off children's arms)
WW2 example is interesting in a sense that only on western front was Geneva convention at all respected. Eastern war on both side was as barbaric as anything Tameralane could come up with, same with both Americans and Japanese in pacific. Reason for such restrain was really shared culture of sorts I think
You got to consider that in all societies few hundred years ago torture and execution were considered great entertainment and just an awesome time out for the family. By the time they were 10 most of the people in the setting like Ferelden (Cousland) would have seen dozens if not hundreds hangings, most likely quite a few drawing and quartering some other more creative stuff for traitors of the realm. Idea that thats bad is very recent.

[Curlain]

Not entirely so, torture was not seen as entertainment (even if some took it as such, such as making public hanging a public event with vendors selling food etc) it was either a method of punishment for a prescribed crime (ie cutting someone's hands off for stealing in parts of medieval Europe) during a time when prisons did not exist. Dungeons and gaols were there solely to hold prisoners until they were punished for their crimes (the concept of incarceration as a punishment for a crime in itself did not come until relatively recently), and hanging, drawing and quartering was an extreme death penalty in medieval to early modern England usually reserved for the worst crimes (such as treason, hence it's seriousness).



The other use of torture in these times was 'to put someone to the torture' which was seen as an acceptable method of interrogation but many in these times. However, there were rules, generally a judge could only 'put someone to the torture' once and once only (of course this was overridden by rulers and governments sometimes, or it was done multiple times in secret etc, but still), though of course the length of this torture was not prescribed.



However it was never provided in and of itself for entertainment (the only close parallel to that I can think of is the Roman arenas where criminals were sometimes executed for the crowds or left to fight wild beasts as their punishment etc

[Randomname1212]

fchopin wrote...

Randomname1212 wrote...

Whose to say they wont have a good girl in the next expansion, though?

Because WRPG’s usually have options for a person to be good and also bad at the same time.
 
JRPG’s which have more straight stories do have characters who are only good or bad.

I was talking about a companion not a PC.

[Zugin]

My point is that if Ferelden is modeled on medieval England(which it seems to be) someone born in a large city like Highever or Denerim would have most likely witnessed a lot of death and torture. There multiple references to torture in a very casual sense in a game (I do not want to go into spoilers). One of the characters that you tavel with has survived traitor's torture.. which by itself can pretty much explain most of her strangness. I would say she is more "normal" then vast majority of people would be after something like that

[fchopin]

Randomname1212 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Randomname1212 wrote...

Whose to say they wont have a good girl in the next expansion, though?

Because WRPG’s usually have options for a person to be good and also bad at the same time.
 
JRPG’s which have more straight stories do have characters who are only good or bad.

I was talking about a companion not a PC.

It is the same for companions, take Leliana for example if you harden her she is a different person really.
 
Also if you play your pc as evil and your companions follow you then they are the same don’t you think?

[Sarielle]

jselene wrote...

To me, it's not the "good" but the "girls" part that's causing a misunderstanding.  It implies that the goodness comes from traits associated with youth--immaturity, "innocence," helplessness, etc.  What a lot of people seem to want here doesn't match up with the title... which seems to be asking for another Aerie, at best. 

Also: Lanaya.  It would be awesome if she were the blonde elven mage in Awakening!

That's entirely possible. I dunno if it's a regional thing or what, but I use "girls" in more just...a friendly sense to females. Like two 80-year-old women might hold a door for me or something and I would say, "Thanks girls!" etc.

But I do know everyone doesn't use it this way...I forget that sometimes.

[The Velveteen Rabbit]

I think what's important about Leliana is that she IS trying to be a better person, it's why she was in Lothering's cloister in the first place. She realized all the terrible things she had done in her past, and as she would say, she found the Maker. You have the option to "harden" her personality and force her to take two steps backward on the path of righteousness just as you have the option to give Alistair a backbone. They are both two crossroads in their lives.



When you think about it, every character - even, in some cases, yours - has a bit of a shady past. Even Morrigan and Zevran, beneath their exteriors - though they've chosen very different defense mechanisms - have a heart. Leliana is just the opposite of that: she lets her feelings and beliefs be known to all and as a result can be easily trampled on, but beneath that is a darker side. As is the nature of dark fantasy, I suppose.

[Greyshaft1]

I like the girls who say they will. I like the girls who say they wont but most of all I like the girls who say they might:)

[Emerald Melios]

Acesahn wrote...

Alistar fits the Mr. Nice guy Bioware romance option to a T. He's funny, sensitive, a virgin... But as we changed tracks for the for the female's of bioware we get a whole different story. One's a seductress, who finds any kind thing you do throughout the course of the game (even saving people) a bad thing. Morrigan hints that she uses romance to use people and despises talks of love. Obviously not our good girl there, hell her allure is that she's the exact opposite of that. Then we got Leliana. Religous... kind... at first glance. Of course when you find out she used to be a spy who specialized in becoming whatever type of woman her target desired and practically boasts she can bag any man. File that under "ThingsI would have rather not known about." Oh and she flat out prefers women, even if you are playing a male character. As a female all you need to do is get her relation points up and she will come after you, admiring your characters hair which opens up conversation options to move the relationship to "interested" (There are 3 steps apperently, like,interested,love) As a male if you don't flat out flirt with her early on in the relationship you get stuck in the friend zone until much later in the game when her side story is accomplished, and if you know who the character her side story is about that just further fuels my point.

I really wish there was a normal, not bizarr person in the game as a romance option. Maybe a Dalish elf who wants to explore the civiilized world? An anti hero thief or pick pocket whose really just does what she must to survive? I dont know...

I prefer them eccentric. Leliana wouldn't be my favorite character if she wasn't one ARchdemon short of a Blight.

[KristofCoulson]

wkstrm wrote...

All of them girls have cameltoes. It's hard to be nice with a cameltoe. ;(

What's a cameltoe?

[Drag0n-RD]

KristofCoulson wrote...

wkstrm wrote...

All of them girls have cameltoes. It's hard to be nice with a cameltoe. ;(

What's a cameltoe?

Rather hard to explain without getting forum-banned 

[Ryzaki]

KristofCoulson wrote...

wkstrm wrote...

All of them girls have cameltoes. It's hard to be nice with a cameltoe. ;(

What's a cameltoe?

Wikipedia is your friend.

[Gill Kaiser]

Leliana's the good girl. Just because she's done questionable things in her past doesn't change the fact that she is a nice person, and she's striving to do good throughout DA:O.

[rabbitchannel]

Ryzaki wrote...

KristofCoulson wrote...

wkstrm wrote...

All of them girls have cameltoes. It's hard to be nice with a cameltoe. ;(

What's a cameltoe?

Wikipedia is your friend.

Stop corrupting people! 

Anyway. Now that the OP mentions it, I would like a companion with a sweet, earnest personality. A little inexperience or naivety would be refreshing.

[Fate Elixir]

It would have been fun to have a female party member who was very innocent and polite, but who would become the biggest raging warmonger ever when pushed. Thinking sweeter than Leliana, yet more icy than Morrigan when worked up.

[caradoc2000]

The good girl character can get annoying as well - take Dawn Star in Jade Empire for example.

[Gill Kaiser]

True. Silk Fox was infinitely superior.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Wait, you guys think Alistair is a good guy? I can understand thinking that towards the beginning, but in the end you see him for his true colors. I wanted to see a paldin type character in Origins, but all you get is a group of thugs and a crybaby. Also, there should've been at least one girl that wasn't sexually active her whole life. On another note, I thought the creators put too many anti-heros in one setting. The only one that was sort of good was Wynne, but her character was way too preachy. If you put Wynne's background with Leliana's personality, you would get a pretty good girl; however, Wynne is really full of surprises so even then I'm not so sure.

[Surango]

This has to be one of the funniest threads I've read. Glad it was brought back to life. Leliana is a nice one, but Morrigan is as well if you let her be. She's insecure in her feelings, yet sure of herself. Plus what we find out later is a good reason not to get attached to the PC.

To the people who think killing is worse than torture: I can only kill you once but I can torture you forever.

Modifié par Surango, 25 mars 2010 - 12:03 .

[RenownedRyan]

Kelston wrote...

Ferelden does not leave room for nice which is why you have the option to make Alistair not as soft later on.

Doesn't seem so bad to me.  At least no worse than the real world.

[Jax Sparrow]

 I think the O.P. misunderstands Leliana.  The way I read her is that she likes both men and women but prefers men. I believe it is much easier to bag her as a male Warden than a female one.

[S. Djavul]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

 I think the O.P. misunderstands Leliana.  The way I read her is that she likes both men and women but prefers men. I believe it is much easier to bag her as a male Warden than a female one.

I definitely did have a much easier time romancing her as a male Warden than as a female.

[Gill Kaiser]

I got the impression that she liked women and men equally, but that she is more hesitant to voice her feelings to a female because she's not sure if the Warden likes women. If I remember correctly you have to choose a certain dialogue option with her as a female early on, or she won't even try to romance you until after you've done her personal quest.

[Mlai00]

Leliana does come off as somewhat creepy. I'm not sure if it is a writing disconnect, or if Gaider intentionally meant to do that, for that ambiguity.

A person who is truly repentant would have a different outlook towards her past actions. There would be true remorse. Lel, instead, rationalizes her past, and defends it. Like someone else said, she doesn't know how to tell the truth, even to herself. She wants to repent but she doesn't really know how to go about it. She has the vague feeling that her old life was bad, mainly because Marj betrayed her good, but if you really get down to it, she doesn't know *why* it's bad.

So, if your PC just superficially has a 'beautiful romance' with her, without ever confronting her about her paradox... then everything's peachy keen. Just sweep it all under the rug, love in blissful ignorance, and pretend it's all healthy. It might never turn up again; she's skilled enough to bury it way deep. But beware if it ever does come up -- she will have a mental breakdown. And you won't recognize your faithful lover. Because she was never truly what you told yourself she was.