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[Eire Icon]

**** Spoilers Warning*****

I'm now in my third playthrough now as Warrior Hawke. In my previous two playthroughs I have sided with the mages. In my first as Rogue, I did so as my sister was a Mage, and in my second I was a mage myself

For this playthrough I intend to side with the templars but for the life of me, I can't come up with a justifiable reason why my Hawke would do this. He comes from a family with magic within its line, and also his sister is a mage. I can't seem to find a motivation for him to side with the templars. thoughts ?

Modifié par Eire Icon, 02 avril 2011 - 04:20 .

[Arppis]

Mom was killed by blood mages and blood mages are swarming up the streets... Well, that's the only excuse I can find. But if person has a half of a brain, he knows that not every mage will turn out to be one.

[Raiil]

I'm currently on a pro-templar mage playthrough.

For motivation, I used that a) as someone who has been on the run for most of their lives, Hawke has decided that stability for herself > freedom of people she's never met. And because the templars represent law and order to her, the templars get her support. She knows she's powerful enough to be left alone, and why should she care about the rest of them?

For a non-mage playthrough, perhaps they assume Bethany being in the Circle means that Bethany now has some protection from mage hunters and whatnot. It doesn't have to be pro-templar as it can be pro-law and order, which is more or less how my mage can be pro-templar. Whatever side offers stability and safety is the side that gets her help.

[TJPags]

Arppis wrote...

Mom was killed by blood mages and blood mages are swarming up the streets... Well, that's the only excuse I can find. But if person has a half of a brain, he knows that not every mage will turn out to be one.

this kind of does it.  With all the blood mages around, particularly trying to kill you, is it hard to decide to wipe out the Kirkwall circle?  just about every mage you meet IS a blood mage.

[LobselVith8]

Eire Icon wrote...

**** Spoilers Warning*****

I'm now in my third playthrough now as Warrior Hawke. In my previous two playthroughs I have sided with the mages. In my first as Rogue, I did so as my sister was a Mage, and in my second I was a mage myself

For this playthrough I intend to side with the templars but for the life of me, I can't come up with a justifiable reason why my Hawke would do this. He comes from a family with magic within its line, and also his sister is a mage. I can't seem to find a motivation for him to side with the templars. thoughts ?

That depends on what type of templar you're looking to be. You could be a Ser Thrask or Knight-Captain Cullen type of templar.

[Lekwid]

Also, after reading all those codex entries about how the veil is thin and how Kirkwall was important to Tevinter for magical/evil reasons...and getting attacked by insane blood mages all the time...maybe you can side with the templars. Plus the whole mom thing could make you snap.

[AlexXIV]

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

[Lekwid]

AlexXIV wrote...

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

You get to be viscount if you side with the Templars.

[Eire Icon]

but what about Bethany? - thats kinda just a bridge too far for me. If she acted like Carver it would be easy, but she's probably one of the nicer characters in the game

[TJPags]

Eire Icon wrote...

but what about Bethany? - thats kinda just a bridge too far for me. If she acted like Carver it would be easy, but she's probably one of the nicer characters in the game

She could be dead or a GW . . she doesn't have to be in the Circle.

[Eire Icon]

TJPags wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

but what about Bethany? - thats kinda just a bridge too far for me. If she acted like Carver it would be easy, but she's probably one of the nicer characters in the game

She could be dead or a GW . . she doesn't have to be in the Circle.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but whats a "GW" ?

Modifié par Eire Icon, 02 avril 2011 - 04:50 .

[AlexXIV]

Lekwid wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

You get to be viscount if you side with the Templars.

That's bad reason. Also you get to be Viscount under the watchful eyes of the templars, and not for long.

[Herr Uhl]

Eire Icon wrote...

Sorry if this is a stupid question but whats a "GW" ?

Grey Warden.

[Arppis]

Lekwid wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

You get to be viscount if you side with the Templars.

OHHH THEN!!! Let's burn some mage babies!!!

[Eire Icon]

AlexXIV wrote...

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

This is what I'm struggling with. I'm running a survey in the below thread and currently 87% of those surveyed sided with the mages on their main playthrough

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/305/index/6883802

For me thats a very high percentage and it maybe indicates going templar is somehow viewed as the more difficult route to go. No matter which way I look at it, i can't help but view siding with the Templars as a betrayel of Bethany

[Mnemnosyne]

Basically all the mages in Kirkwall seem to be evil or insane. Of those who aren't in my party, there's only three I can recall who aren't - Alain, Ella, and Emile de Launcet. That's it. Three out of all the ones who you encounter throughout the entire game that don't try to kill you or turn into abominations or something else like that.

Sarcastic Hawke comments once something along the lines of "I'd like to go just one week without running into an insane mage." I think after seven years of seeing that, there's ample reasoning to support Meredith's claims of so many mages being bad that those who aren't have to be considered acceptable casualties.

[AlexXIV]

Eire Icon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

This is what I'm struggling with. I'm running a survey in the below thread and currently 87% of those surveyed sided with the mages on their main playthrough

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/305/index/6883802

For me thats a very high percentage and it maybe indicates going templar is somehow viewed as the more difficult route to go. No matter which way I look at it, i can't help but view siding with the Templars as a betrayel of Bethany

Actually no. I don't mean to spoil the story, so stop here if you don't want to get spoilered, but ....

















You save Bethany even if you side with the templars. You still kill alot of mages who have not done anything worse than self-defense, since Meredith decides to not go through the trouble of sorting them out anymore.

[Eire Icon]

Koyasha wrote...

Basically all the mages in Kirkwall seem to be evil or insane. Of those who aren't in my party, there's only three I can recall who aren't - Alain, Ella, and Emile de Launcet. That's it. Three out of all the ones who you encounter throughout the entire game that don't try to kill you or turn into abominations or something else like that.

Sarcastic Hawke comments once something along the lines of "I'd like to go just one week without running into an insane mage." I think after seven years of seeing that, there's ample reasoning to support Meredith's claims of so many mages being bad that those who aren't have to be considered acceptable casualties.

But surely your sister being a mage would play a part? You're in essence condemning her by supporting Meredith ?

EDIT - in relation to the post directly above. From my own point of view when playing I make decisions with the view of the character not knowing what the future will bring. Regardless of any outcome relating to Bethany, surely it stands to reason that siding with the templars places her in danger

Modifié par Eire Icon, 02 avril 2011 - 05:03 .

[Arppis]

Koyasha wrote...

Basically all the mages in Kirkwall seem to be evil or insane. Of those who aren't in my party, there's only three I can recall who aren't - Alain, Ella, and Emile de Launcet. That's it. Three out of all the ones who you encounter throughout the entire game that don't try to kill you or turn into abominations or something else like that.

Sarcastic Hawke comments once something along the lines of "I'd like to go just one week without running into an insane mage." I think after seven years of seeing that, there's ample reasoning to support Meredith's claims of so many mages being bad that those who aren't have to be considered acceptable casualties.

And Templars are the ones who keep pushing them to the blood magic. While some of them would still go for it, I still think if they would give mages some status in the society, they might actualy work with Templars to get rid of those bad seeds.

[LobselVith8]

Part of the problem is that some people dismiss all mages as being bad for the actions of a few. We don't meet the hundreds or thousands of mages in the Gallows Prison, we encounter a relatively small fraction. If you want to be a templar, then you should decide what type of templar you want to be.

If family is a concern, being a templar will put you into opposition with Bethany (temporarily). Bethany does ask Hawke not to make her choose between her family and her people, if you consider siding with the templars against the Kirkwall Circle. I honestly don't know why Hawke would side with the templars if Bethany is a Circle mage since Meredith orders the execution of all Circle mages.

[hoorayforicecream]

There's more than one view to siding with Meredith at the final battle than "Kill all the mages". Meredith is wacko, and we all know it. However, at the end of the game, you've got a massive battle spilling over into Kirkwall. You know that it has to end quickly, and you know that the mages, forced into a corner by the templars, will be going nuts and turning to blood magic and demons making them dangerous not just to the templars, but to innocents nearby.

So, if your primary goal is to protect the citizens of Kirkwall, you side with the templars. Not necessarily because you agree with them, but because stopping the mages turning into abominations as quickly as possible results in the lowest number of innocent lives lost. You can reason with templars and get them to stop.

[Mnemnosyne]

Eire Icon wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

Basically all the mages in Kirkwall seem to be evil or insane. Of those who aren't in my party, there's only three I can recall who aren't - Alain, Ella, and Emile de Launcet. That's it. Three out of all the ones who you encounter throughout the entire game that don't try to kill you or turn into abominations or something else like that.

Sarcastic Hawke comments once something along the lines of "I'd like to go just one week without running into an insane mage." I think after seven years of seeing that, there's ample reasoning to support Meredith's claims of so many mages being bad that those who aren't have to be considered acceptable casualties.

But surely your sister being a mage would play a part? You're in essence condemning her by supporting Meredith ?

EDIT - in relation to the post directly above. From my own point of view when playing I make decisions with the view of the character not knowing what the future will bring. Regardless of any outcome relating to Bethany, surely it stands to reason that siding with the templars places her in danger

Meredith is calling for the annulment of the Kirkwall Circle of Magi, not the annihilation of all mages in Thedas (although I'm sure that might be her next step since she's been driven insane by that point).  If Bethany is a Grey Warden or dead at that point, then it doesn't affect her.  The only time Bethany would directly come into the question of annulling the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall would be if she's in the Circle.

The game seems to give us every reason to think that annulling the Circle in Kirkwall is actually probably the best course of action, due to how few good mages we encounter.  That choice does not necessarily extend outside Kirkwall.

[LobselVith8]

"How few good mages we encounter"? We meet a small portion of the mages, and Meredith orders the genocide of the entire Circle for something they are completely innocent of - and the Knight-Commander knows it. She orders the execution of the youngest apprentice to the eldest mage, and they are innocent. I don't see how the actions of a minority should condemn them all. Why murder hundreds or thousands of innocent people because we ran into a handful of bad mages?

[Arppis]

LobselVith8 wrote...

"How few good mages we encounter"? We meet a small portion of the mages, and Meredith orders the genocide of the entire Circle for something they are completely innocent of - and the Knight-Commander knows it. She orders the execution of the youngest apprentice to the eldest mage, and they are innocent. I don't see how the actions of a minority should condemn them all. Why murder hundreds or thousands of innocent people because we ran into a handful of bad mages?

This is where it boils down to ultimately. Not every mage is guilty.

[The Angry One]

Arppis wrote...

Lekwid wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is no good reason to side with the templars, there are a bunch of bad ones though.

You get to be viscount if you side with the Templars.

OHHH THEN!!! Let's burn some mage babies!!!

Am I the only one who'd rather be Knight-Commander?
Practically the same thing anyway with Meredith, plus awesome title and many Templar underlings to make me breakfast and such.