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[Loc'n'lol]

Take Bethany with you to the deep roads. Don't bring Anders. See what that does for your motivation by the end of the game.

[Mnemnosyne]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

But surely your sister being a mage would play a part? You're in essence condemning her by supporting Meredith ?

EDIT - in relation to the post directly above. From my own point of view when playing I make decisions with the view of the character not knowing what the future will bring. Regardless of any outcome relating to Bethany, surely it stands to reason that siding with the templars places her in danger

It does put her in danger, but at this point the whole world is at stake. Many people's sisters, not just yours. What happens in Kirkwall is almost by the way. Because of Anders, everyone is forced to choose  a side in a world war. You're choosing a lot more than whether or not you agree with Meredith's rite of annulment.

As a templar even Carver is more than willing to side with Meredith.

Honestly at the point where Hawke makes the decision, I don't see anything that indicates to Hawke that this might spread worldwide in any significant manner.  Other circles have been annulled in the past and it didn't cause worldwide mage rebellion, so there's no real reason for Hawke to think that this time it will.

Even Anders is really just going for the longshot, at least that's how it seems to me.  He's picking the only chance he sees at forcing a confrontation, which is the only chance he sees that things might get better for mages in general, and even then I'm pretty sure he sees it as a slim chance.

[Altima Darkspells]

My problem with the Templars is that, throughout the game, they've been ignoring their own laws, which I assume means betraying their oaths as Templars.

They've made mages who passed their Harrowing into Tranquil, which is strictly, one-hundred percent illegal. Mages who pass their Harrowing cannot, under any circumstances, be made Tranquil. That's why Anders was Anders in Awakening, instead of a drooling simpleton.

The Rite of Annulment at the end was illegal too. In Origins, we learn that the Rite can only be invoked when the Grand Cleric of the local Chantry gives her permission. That means Elithea, who at the time the Rite was invoked, was a bit indisposed. Sure, Meredith sent for permission from Orlais, but I can guarantee you the response she received (if she even had time) was to refer to the decision of the local Grand Cleric. Seeing as how Elithea was appointed by the Divine herself...

So in the end, the Templars are no longer the guardians and shield against blood magic and demons. They've become a pack of bullying thugs that have become so corrupt that more moderate members are actively allying with the mages to stop Meredith.

[Huntress]

He did, he also knew that the only thing stoping the final confrontation was the excuse of a chantry, so he removed that from the picture. Now I do not know your end game, but as magehawk my carver sended Menethil to hell.

[PantheraOnca]

I'm playing a magehawke right now that will side with the templar. He's a mage, he is a nice guy, but he also likes all the power demons and blood magic offer. He will not refuse an offer from a demon. He will side with the templars because if he can't help but take those deals, why would he hope for better from people who otherwise might not be as nice as him.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

Orsino the First Enchanter mage is the reason behind your mothers death

[AshenEndymion]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

The Rite of Annulment at the end was illegal too. In Origins, we learn that the Rite can only be invoked when the Grand Cleric of the local Chantry gives her permission. That means Elithea, who at the time the Rite was invoked, was a bit indisposed. Sure, Meredith sent for permission from Orlais, but I can guarantee you the response she received (if she even had time) was to refer to the decision of the local Grand Cleric. Seeing as how Elithea was appointed by the Divine herself...

I disagree. If the action was illegal, that would have been a point driven home by Orsino (and Cullen). Not that it was a "harsh decision" that "isn't truly necessary." Given the complete lack of immediate communication, there must be some rule situation that declares a Knight Commander is allowed to act of their own accord if the Grand Cleric (and all her subordinates) are killed openly.

And somehow, I think, that when word gets back that "A mage" blew up the Chantry, the Divine will not oppose the Rite of Annulment having been invoked. Mostly because said mage being an apostate is never going to reach her ears.

[sphinxess]

Huntress wrote...

He did, he also knew that the only thing stoping the final confrontation was the excuse of a chantry, so he removed that from the picture. Now I do not know your end game, but as magehawk my carver sended Menethil to hell.

I wish they had played this up more - could it be an actual attack on the chantry itself is what really stired things up? That is what seems different from all the other times

Templars battling mages is almost routine with 17 annulments in 700 years

[PantheraOnca]

About once every 40 years. That is downright commonplace for a genocidal event.

[Eire Icon]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Take Bethany with you to the deep roads. Don't bring Anders. See what that does for your motivation by the end of the game.

Good Point !

[Eire Icon]

Yep I'm still struggling with this. I think I just somehow see it as "The Renegade Choice"

[Asdara]

I can only provide my justification for my own pro-Circle warrior character:

She was the older sister of a mage, and her father was an apostate, thus she was born into tolerance for mages outside the Circle, but once her father died and Bethany tragically died in the Deep Roads (done on purpose) that went away. She continued to be aware of the fact that not every mage is an abomination in waiting, but what she saw around Kirkwall and her interaction with Anders made her realize that some, in fact, are.

Also, I factored in a non-game element of having been keen to consider herself the "Templar" to her sister while she was alive - it was OK for Bethany to be outside the Circle, because she was still under some form of supervision. I gave her the Templar specialization under a premise that she thought those skills might be needful one day if things went wrong.

Order and supervision is something mages need, because of what they are and what they can do if things go wrong. Even though the system is flawed, it protects a greater good. Mom's death to a renegade bloodmage - and subsequently finding the note from "-O" made her suspect that the Circle in Kirkwall has become corrupted, making Meredith's paranoia at least partially justified (if extreme).

Thus, supporting the supervision of mages, tranquilizing a possible dream-mage abomination, and so on, she was well on the side of the Templars before the final conflict comes down.

[Asdara]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

My Apostate Hawke despises all Circle Mages like the Dalish despise the City Elves. I came up with the backstory that ancestors of the Hawke family (perhaps Parthalan among them) learned from the Witches of the Wilds. My Hawke views all Circle Mages as pigs who grew up in a pen, a pale mockery of the true potentials of Magic. In her eyes, a Circle Mage is already very close to Tranquil, and killing them would be an act of mercy. That is part of the reason why she fully supports Feynriel's pilgrimage to Tevinter.

that's a really interesting way of looking at it... I might borrow that for a future playthrough if you don't mind 

[AshleyS3]

My main play-through (female rogue hawke, Bethany went to the circle) I started off sympathetic to the mages. That quickly changed after everything that happens and by the end I was extremely wary of mages (after Fenris's experience, mother's death, all the bad encounters with blood mages, them taking Bethany towards the end, etc) and decided to side with the templars because it seemed like the better option. It ended really well because I still got to save some mages and Bethany, so I was really happy with the way it turned out. Even Bethany turned on Orsino at the end, and even Merill agreed with me and stayed.

Next play-through I will side with the mages but I kind of don't want to now after how well I feel everything turned out the first time.

[Asdara]

AshleyS3 wrote...

My main play-through (female rogue hawke, Bethany went to the circle) I started off sympathetic to the mages. That quickly changed after everything that happens and by the end I was extremely wary of mages (after Fenris's experience, mother's death, all the bad encounters with blood mages, them taking Bethany towards the end, etc) and decided to side with the templars because it seemed like the better option. It ended really well because I still got to save some mages and Bethany, so I was really happy with the way it turned out. Even Bethany turned on Orsino at the end, and even Merill agreed with me and stayed.

Next play-through I will side with the mages but I kind of don't want to now after how well I feel everything turned out the first time.

That was how my rouge play went, my first time through w/o spoilers.  

Do try the supporting mage line though, because there is a different perspective to be had if you stay consistent through the game.  It can be a little sad though, because you do get the feeling you've chosen the very disadvantaged team.

[Lisa_H]

My main playthrough was with a mage-Hawke. She began as very sympathetic to the mages. She truly disliked the circles, and thought the mages should be able to live their lives as normal people. She helped Feynril to get to the Dalish, and lied to the templars so the StarkeHaven mages would get away. She did not hate the templars however. She saw their ideas as wrong but did not believe them all to be evil. As the story progressed she slowly began to see flaws in her ideals. Her mother was killed by a rogue blood-mage, one that clearly had help from within the tower. Her mother death left her a huge scar in her, and she blamed herself for not protecting her mother better. She also began to question what could happen when mages such as herself ran free.  Her mother could have been killed by a random madman, but no random madman could have used her mother's body to piece together his dead wife. She began to wonder what protection normal people truly had against the evils mages could so easily inflict on others. Her encounters with other blood mages, and abominations, as well as Fenris stories futher made her question her ideals. Later when she became champion she tried to be the voice of reason between Meredith and Orsino. At the end she was forced to use a side, and she chose the templars. She hated what she had to do(something I think is reflected beautifully in the speech Hawke gives to her companions before the battle) but she did it to save the city. She knew Meredith would not back down(but she tried to stop it, even in the finally dialogue between Orsino and Meredith right before the battle) and by joining forces with the templars she hoped to be able to wield some influence on what would happen with mages. And she also wanted to avoid a open war between the templars and mages, with the common people caught in the middle. And if the mages won, how long before the Divine declared a new  exalted march and that would only lead to even more death. So no she did like the situation, but she did what she thought was the lesser of two evils. Both would lead to death, and she tried choose the one that she thought would cause less people to loose their lives.
And this was my roleplaying reason to choose the templars