1927 réponses à ce sujet

[Lianaar]

At the brick of war, not at war. So there are many outcome chances yet.

[Camenae]

For the Orsino thing, I've said it once and I'll say it again: if some dude just rocked my world like nothing else, and then proceeded to tell me:"oh btw I was a virgin before this. I only read about sex in books but never did it, honest!" should I believe him? What do you think?

And for Owain. I don't know why just because he didn't do what you think you would have done, that it automatically means he's not logical. So anyone who disagrees with you is illogical? For me, the Tranquil seems like Vulcans. You're saying they're all slaves too? Only the half-human one with emotions is not a slave?

As far as the tranquility thing go, yes the Kirkwall circle is abusing it, but if if the procedure is used properly, ie to prevent mages from being possessed, why would you be opposed to that? What's the alternative for those who get possessed then? We just kill them? Or are abominations all just people too and should be free??

[stobie]

So he's studied it & finally uses it when he cracks? So? Isn't that the same as Meredith seeking out a powerful weapon, & using it? Except in her case, there's a goal - kill the mages, with the excuse of a non-Circle mage's actions. In his, there's just desperation and no goal, since he was obviously against Anders's scheme for war. The pink-glowy sword could kill just as many as the pus-creature.

And, again, I was under the impression they're both supposed to be flawed, just as there are both good & bad templars, & mages.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Pzykozis wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Didn't Cassandra believe that the Champion conspired to start the disaster?

Which doens't make that much sense really if you're playing a very pro-Templar Hawke. Alpha Protocol pulled the flashforward cutscenes much better. They actually made sense.

Isn't the saying; 'The first casualty of war is truth' ?

And Thedas according to Varric atleast seems to be in a fairly big war at the moment. The fact that the Chantry has so much wrong is part of the reason Cassie is questioning Varric in the first place.

But I dont' see how she can jump the conclusion that Hawke started the disaster when he was the one who helped annul the circle. It's kind of pushing "the first casualty of war is truth" a bit too far imo.

Unless Hawke did something later. Might have to do with his suspicious dissapearance. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Camenae wrote...

For the Orsino thing, I've said it once and I'll say it again: if some dude just rocked my world like nothing else, and then proceeded to tell me:"oh btw I was a virgin before this. I only read about sex in books but never did it, honest!" should I believe him? What do you think?

Yes :innocent:

[Herr Uhl]

stobie wrote...

So he's studied it & finally uses it when he cracks? So? Isn't that the same as Meredith seeking out a powerful weapon, & using it? Except in her case, there's a goal - kill the mages, with the excuse of a non-Circle mage's actions. In his, there's just desperation and no goal, since he was obviously against Anders's scheme for war. The pink-glowy sword could kill just as many as the pus-creature.

And, again, I was under the impression they're both supposed to be flawed, just as there are both good & bad templars, & mages.

I don't see many saying that Meredith was right. Getting a weapon isn't illegal, however. Blood magic is.

And how do you know that her aim was to kill all mages about 3 years before doing it? Maybe she just wanted a weapon as to be more effective at fighting?

[Lianaar]

Knight, it can be the fact that Anders was in his company and people linked him to Hawke, even if you executed him. Gossips, you know...
But right, maybe he did something before his magical disappearance. It did appear as the Champion and friends went on to do a few more things here and there, before (s)he went missing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
And how do you know that her aim was to kill all mages about 3 years before doing it? Maybe she just wanted a weapon as to be more effective at fighting?

And raw lyrium sounds like such a great material. Lyrium is not known to be highly dangerous or anything.

Oh how much I hate the idol.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 avril 2011 - 09:40 .

[stobie]

Camenae wrote...

For the Orsino thing, I've said it once and I'll say it again: if some dude just rocked my world like nothing else, and then proceeded to tell me:"oh btw I was a virgin before this. I only read about sex in books but never did it, honest!" should I believe him? What do you think?

And for Owain. I don't know why just because he didn't do what you think you would have done, that it automatically means he's not logical. So anyone who disagrees with you is illogical? For me, the Tranquil seems like Vulcans. You're saying they're all slaves too? Only the half-human one with emotions is not a slave?

As far as the tranquility thing go, yes the Kirkwall circle is abusing it, but if if the procedure is used properly, ie to prevent mages from being possessed, why would you be opposed to that? What's the alternative for those who get possessed then? We just kill them? Or are abominations all just people too and should be free??

Why would you be opposed to people having bits of their brains removed, against their will?  Um... well, if you have to ask, I guess I have no answer.  If they want the procedure, have fun with it.  If they don't, it's sick.

Vulcans learned to control their emotions - they didn't have them physically removed.   

As far as slavery, I don't see that analogy.  The mages aren't being used to profit someone else.  I'd say they were confined, subject to abuse.  Again, if that's ok...   not much to say to that, either.  Except... /back away slowly.

[ddv.rsa]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The talk about soul edge and harvester insanity is making me re-experience the big underwhelment I felt when I finished the game. So much so that I didn't bother to start a 2nd playthrough as of yet.

DA2 was fun, but it just doesn't have the same replay value as origins. Most of your choices are illusory. The only real choices are how you interact with your companions, and who you side with in the end. I'm not in any hurry to replay either. 

Maybe when some DLC becomes available. 

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

For the Orsino thing, I've said it once and I'll say it again: if some dude just rocked my world like nothing
else, and then proceeded to tell me:"oh btw I was a virgin before this.
I only read about sex in books but never did it, honest!" should I believe him? What do you think?

Hahahaha, oh god.

stobie wrote...

So he's studied it & finally uses it when he cracks? So? Isn't that the same as Meredith seeking out a powerful weapon, & using it? Except in her case, there's a goal - kill the mages, with the excuse of a non-Circle mage's actions. In his, there's just desperation and no goal, since he was obviously against Anders's scheme for war. The pink-glowy sword could kill just as many as the pus-creature.

So he uses it for the first time and just happens to transform into a creature that has only ever been accomplished by a Tevinter Magister using powerful blood magic, corpses and Fade spirits?

And, again, I was under the impression they're both supposed to be flawed, just as there are both good & bad templars, & mages.

There's flawed and then there's crazy-ass bonkers.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2011 - 09:41 .

[Pzykozis]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But I dont' see how she can jump the conclusion that Hawke started the disaster when he was the one who helped annul the circle. It's kind of pushing "the first casualty of war is truth" a bit too far imo.

Unless Hawke did something later. Might have to do with his suspicious dissapearance. 

Rumour and chinese whispers are a powerful twister of the truth, the very fact that Hawke was there when it all went to hell and walked out afterwards after killing Meredith helps to start misinformation like that, of course it is reaching I don't really know to be fair, I struggle to contemplate pro-templar because of the family ties which make it to me illogical at best.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
And how do you know that her aim was to kill all mages about 3 years before doing it? Maybe she just wanted a weapon as to be more effective at fighting?

And raw lyrium sounds like such a great material. Lyrium is not known to be highly dangerous or anything.

Oh how much I hate the idol.

Why she bought it is odd. Maybe to put it in "safe" hands away from mages.

[_Somebody]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
And how do you know that her aim was to kill all mages about 3 years before doing it? Maybe she just wanted a weapon as to be more effective at fighting?

And raw lyrium sounds like such a great material. Lyrium is not known to be highly dangerous or anything.

Oh how much I hate the idol.

I always thought that touching lyrium makes you bleed from the eyes and all that good stuff. I was surprised that Hawke picks it up like nothing... shouldnt he be a bit more careful and not pick up a random item made from it..?

Modifié par Somebody, 03 avril 2011 - 09:42 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...
There's flawed and then there's crazy-ass bonkers.

And then there is crazy-ass bonkers with no character development.

[stobie]

Herr Uhl wrote...

stobie wrote...

So he's studied it & finally uses it when he cracks? So? Isn't that the same as Meredith seeking out a powerful weapon, & using it? Except in her case, there's a goal - kill the mages, with the excuse of a non-Circle mage's actions. In his, there's just desperation and no goal, since he was obviously against Anders's scheme for war. The pink-glowy sword could kill just as many as the pus-creature.

And, again, I was under the impression they're both supposed to be flawed, just as there are both good & bad templars, & mages.

I don't see many saying that Meredith was right. Getting a weapon isn't illegal, however. Blood magic is.

And how do you know that her aim was to kill all mages about 3 years before doing it? Maybe she just wanted a weapon as to be more effective at fighting?

No, I'm saying she was afraid because of her own backstory, & was seeking out a powerful weapon. I would assume everything she does is in self-defense, in her mind.   As for illegal - well, *that* is pretty flexible in this game, isn't it?   Making Harrowed mages tranquil is illegal, too...  

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
And how do you know that her aim was to kill all mages about 3 years before doing it? Maybe she just wanted a weapon as to be more effective at fighting?

And raw lyrium sounds like such a great material. Lyrium is not known to be highly dangerous or anything.

Oh how much I hate the idol.

Why she bought it is odd. Maybe to put it in "safe" hands away from mages.

Wouldn't that be technically illegal? Templars are not supposed to own lyrium, only the chantry does...

[The Angry One]

I think Orsino and Meredith were developed, especially Meredith.
It's just that the endgame completely reverts that development and makes it pointless.

[Camenae]

@stobie,

I'm opposed to tranquility when it's being abused like by the Kirkwall circle, yes. But when it is not being abused?? When the alternative is EXECUTION (because how else are you going to deal with people who become possessed?)?

In that case, depending on your personal feelings about the death penalty...I for one can see how someone who has suffered demonic possession would rather be tranquil than be killed outright.

Please don't treat my argument as if I'm saying, tranquility is hunky-dory and every average Joe should have it done yay! That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying when it IS needed, like when mages do become abominations, then I don't see anything wrong with turning them Tranquil. In fact I personally think that would be more humane than outright killing them. Because when they do get possessed, SOMETHING has to be done to stop them, or do we disagree on that too?

[LobselVith8]

Pzykozis wrote...

Isn't the saying; 'The first casualty of war is truth' ?

And Thedas according to Varric atleast seems to be in a fairly big war at the moment. The fact that the Chantry has so much wrong is part of the reason Cassie is questioning Varric in the first place.

No matter who Hawke sides with, the mages and the templars seem to have split from the Chantry.

From the Mage ending: "Word of the slaughter spread quickly. The Champion's name became a rallying cry, a reminder that the mighty templars could be defied. He had defended the mages against a brutal injustice, and many lived to tell the tale. The Circles rose up and set the world on fire."

From the Templar ending: "Word of the slaughter spread quickly. The Champion's name became a rallying cry for all mages, a reminder of their brutal oppression. He had shown not only what the templars were willing to do, but that they could be defied.  The Circles rose up and set the world on fire."

[KnightofPhoenix]

Somebody wrote...
I always thought that touching lyrium makes you bleed from the eyes and all that good stuff. I was surprised that Hawke picks it up like nothing... shouldnt he be a bit more careful and not pick up a random item made from it..?

Especially one that has a scary blood red aura around it.

[The Angry One]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wouldn't that be technically illegal? Templars are not supposed to own lyrium, only the chantry does...

The Templar spec description says that even non-members of the order can acquire Lyrium through private means.
It's an "illegal but happens all the time" sort of thing.

[Skilled Seeker]

Thank you for the posts and clarification Gaider! Very informative and as always highly appreciated

[AshenEndymion]

stobie wrote...

No, I'm saying she was afraid because of her own backstory, & was seeking out a powerful weapon. I would assume everything she does is in self-defense, in her mind.   As for illegal - well, *that* is pretty flexible in this game, isn't it?   Making Harrowed mages tranquil is illegal, too...  

No, no, no.... Making harrowed mages tranquil isn't illegal.  Making harrowed mages tranquil against their will is illegal.

So what if none of the tranquil can make the claim that it happened against their will.

[AndreaDraco]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Oh how much I hate the idol.

I second the feeling. I've even written a thread about it :innocent: