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[Lithuasil]

Somebody wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...
Nothing in there says "successful" is needed...

It is implicit in this case. There have been I think two Rights of Annulment performed before.

Afaik the right has been invoked 17 times, including ferelden and kirkwall.

That many? I guess I should read the codex again..

Yeah, but thats over the course of centuries. 

Over the course of 936 years precisely.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ddv.rsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The ending just sucks.

The Templar vs Mage battle should have lasted for at least a few days, with the Templars besieging the Gallows. And with such high casualties on the Templars (they didn't seem to suffer that much).  That would have been an inspiring show of defiance, even if it failed.

But boware sucks with battle and warfare.

I thought the cutscene of the templars storming the hall was pretty cool. They actually reminded me of imperial stormtroopers there.

Yea I thought it was badass, but they were doing it so easily that I fail to see what's so inspiring about the rebellion.

You know what would have been cooler? Templars on ships trying to land on the gallows, with mages bombarding them with spells from afar. Then we have a badass landing cutscene, with us (if pro-Templar) securing the landing zone first. Then we storm the gallows. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[AshenEndymion]

Somebody wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The ending just sucks.

The Templar vs Mage battle should have lasted for at least a few days, with the Templars besieging the Gallows. And with such high casualties on the Templars (they didn't seem to suffer that much).  That would have been an inspiring show of defiance, even if it failed.

But boware sucks with battle and warfare.

I thought the cutscene of the templars storming the hall was pretty cool. They actually reminded me of imperial stormtroopers there.

It was so one sided, one templar took out like 5 mages. Yup, they really defied the templars that day...

Doesn't this prove that templars are best equipped to deal with mages?  Templars have the ability to nullify magic.  And without magic, mages aren't very much of a threat because they don't exactly get sword training.

[The Angry One]

Like I said in another topic, the mages' defense was hilarious to begin with.
Instead of using range to their advantage they stand right in the doorway. This one mage doesn't even bother to cast a spell until the Templar is right next to her and duh, gets shanked.

[ddv.rsa]

Somebody wrote...

It was so one sided, one templar took out like 5 mages. Yup, they really defied the templars that day...

Only because the front line of mages were hesitating. I guess that's the difference between trained soldiers and, essentially, scholars. Even if they have magic.

But if you try and imagine yourself in a templar's place, it has to take guts of iron to charge into a room full of guys who can kill you just by thinking about it. Guys who are prepared and waiting for you.

[Paeyne]

IanPolaris wrote...

There is not one scinilla of evidence in there that Anders did not act alone.  Even Meridith apparently thinks he did given that she doesn't challenge (or even care) when the first enchanter insists the circle had nothing to do with it.  You conspiracy theory has no game support and no lore support.  It didn't happen that way.  Merdith simply wants to kill all mages for being mages at this point.  Her actions and reactions make that brutally obvious.

-Polaris

I generally try to be open minded but this is stretching things a bit.

The absence of proof of guilt does not equal innocence.

You can't say something didn't happen based on an absence of supportable facts either for or against.  You don't get to have it both ways.  You don't get to say there is no proof there was a conspiracy so that proves there was no conspiracy.

Perhaps Anders had help from within the Circle and perhaps he didn't.  The reality is that we just don't know at this point.  We may never know.

Meridith may or may not have believed the Circle was involved.  Perhaps she genuinely believed there was a conspiracy by the mages or perhaps she just used the situation to suit her own ends.  Either way it doesn't really matter as the results were the same.

Orsini may or may not have have believed the Circle was involved.  If he did he certainly wouldn't voice that belief.  He was aware that there were mages doing things that were not told to him.  Either way it doesn't matter.  He would defend his fellow mages whether he believed they were involved or not.

If the Champion was not the one to help him obtain the ingredients than someone may have have helped him or or he could have acted alone.  If Circle mages did help him with his research and gaining the materials needed, I don't really see him betraying those who helped him to Meridith.  Even if Circle mages did help him, they may not have known the real reason or what he intended to do.  The Champion certainly didn't (even if he was a mage).

One thing we do know to be a fact is that Anders lied to the Champion several times during the story (regardless of his friendship or relationship status with Hawke).  If he is willing to lie to the few people in the world he is closest to, I see no reason why he would not lie to Meridith.

[The Angry One]

AshenEndemion wrote...

Doesn't this prove that templars are best equipped to deal with mages?  Templars have the ability to nullify magic.  And without magic, mages aren't very much of a threat because they don't exactly get sword training.

Templars are also very melee oriented. The mage's advantage in this situation is range. Which they don't use. They should be burning ships, shooting from the tops of towers, standing at railings and stairs and raining fire below, they do none of this.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

Like I said in another topic, the mages' defense was hilarious to begin with.
Instead of using range to their advantage they stand right in the doorway. This one mage doesn't even bother to cast a spell until the Templar is right next to her and duh, gets shanked.

Meredith isn't wrong when she said she's protecting mages from their own stupidity.

[stobie]

The mages seemed really weak in that scene, which didn't exactly hold up the 'FEAR THEM' banner. Maybe it's because the templars are helmed, very much like storm troopers, and you tend to see mage faces, humanizing them. They also tended to show female mages in that cut scene, and seemingly male templars, which, fair or not, probably made the mages seem more vulnerable. (and since they were cut down mid-fireball, that would be supported)

It didn't seem to matter, though, since you end up fighting both. (I guess the run through is the same either way?)

[Camenae]

Well I can see how it might be inspiring still. Not like they had live satellite footage in Thedas. By the time word of mouth does its job, there might well have been those who think that mages were facing down the Templars like the last stand at Thermopylae.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The worst part of it were the fact that the mages were taken by suprise. Templars are apperantly quite sneaky, despite being clad in metal armor.

[The Angry One]

stobie wrote...

The mages seemed really weak in that scene, which didn't exactly hold up the 'FEAR THEM' banner. Maybe it's because the templars are helmed, very much like storm troopers, and you tend to see mage faces, humanizing them. They also tended to show female mages in that cut scene, and seemingly male templars, which, fair or not, probably made the mages seem more vulnerable. (and since they were cut down mid-fireball, that would be supported)

Hell hath no fury, you know.
Plus there are plenty of female Templars in that scene, it's just that it isn't as obvious because they're clad in full plate.

[AlexXIV]

Paeyne wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

There is not one scinilla of evidence in there that Anders did not act alone.  Even Meridith apparently thinks he did given that she doesn't challenge (or even care) when the first enchanter insists the circle had nothing to do with it.  You conspiracy theory has no game support and no lore support.  It didn't happen that way.  Merdith simply wants to kill all mages for being mages at this point.  Her actions and reactions make that brutally obvious.

-Polaris

I generally try to be open minded *snip*

Reading the rest of your post makes this part a blatant lie.

Since when do open minded persons condemn people because the could be guilty?

[Sabariel]

Maybe the mage slaughter will be a learning experience. Maybe next time the templars and mages meet the mages will be more organized... with blood magic and demons

[Lithuasil]

Am I the only one wondering why the order needs to "cross the lake" in the first place? Shouldn't they be stationed... you know AT THE CIRCLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD?

[Pzykozis]

stobie wrote...

The mages seemed really weak in that scene, which didn't exactly hold up the 'FEAR THEM' banner. Maybe it's because the templars are helmed, very much like storm troopers, and you tend to see mage faces, humanizing them. They also tended to show female mages in that cut scene, and seemingly male templars, which, fair or not, probably made the mages seem more vulnerable. (and since they were cut down mid-fireball, that would be supported)

It didn't seem to matter, though, since you end up fighting both. (I guess the run through is the same either way?)

To be fair I think it just shows that mages are just normal people at the end of the day, they're just scared and don't know whats going on and they're fighting against hardened soldiers who's very training is to counter their own powers.

Sure, really they should have just barricaded the door and rained fire on them or used magic to throw heavy things at people, doesn't matter if you're immune to magic if someone throws a wall at you instead (coincidentally this is something that annoys me about fantasy and magic oh I'm immune to magic.. ok well in that case I'll just drop a house on you. But meh.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 03 avril 2011 - 10:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lizardviking wrote...

The worst part of it were the fact that the mages were taken by suprise. Templars are apperantly quite sneaky, despite being clad in metal armor.

Templar Hunters FTW (how much I hate them when fighting them).

Why don't rogues have Templar spec? 

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

Am I the only one wondering why the order needs to "cross the lake" in the first place? Shouldn't they be stationed... you know AT THE CIRCLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD?

They are stationed there.
Apparently Meredith took ALL the Templars with her to chase Orsino.
No I don't get it either.

[stobie]

The Angry One wrote...

stobie wrote...

The mages seemed really weak in that scene, which didn't exactly hold up the 'FEAR THEM' banner. Maybe it's because the templars are helmed, very much like storm troopers, and you tend to see mage faces, humanizing them. They also tended to show female mages in that cut scene, and seemingly male templars, which, fair or not, probably made the mages seem more vulnerable. (and since they were cut down mid-fireball, that would be supported)

Hell hath no fury, you know.
Plus there are plenty of female Templars in that scene, it's just that it isn't as obvious because they're clad in full plate.

I guess I wasn't looking at the right body parts, then...   But either way, people in full armor with no faces showing seem more like robots, in contrast to these fragile creatures running around in bad dresses.   Seeing a concerted mage defense would have made them seem more threatening - as it is, they look like slaughtered sheep, and the templars seem like a hardened army.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lithuasil wrote...

Am I the only one wondering why the order needs to "cross the lake" in the first place? Shouldn't they be stationed... you know AT THE CIRCLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD?

Apparently Meredith brought all of them outside....
Because Orsino apparently was able to bring a lot of mages outside too...and the Templars let him....

They are all incompetent, or Bioware is vis a vis this. Pick.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The worst part of it were the fact that the mages were taken by suprise. Templars are apperantly quite sneaky, despite being clad in metal armor.

Templar Hunters FTW (how much I hate them when fighting them).

Why don't rogues have Templar spec? 

I hate them! They always try to kill poor Merrill.

But really, those templars did not really seem subtle, and yet they still manage to get the jump on the mages.

You would think that the mages would atleast pay attention to... You know... The front entrance where the giant templar army will attack from.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 03 avril 2011 - 10:21 .

[_Somebody]

Lizardviking wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The worst part of it were the fact that the mages were taken by suprise. Templars are apperantly quite sneaky, despite being clad in metal armor.

Templar Hunters FTW (how much I hate them when fighting them).

Why don't rogues have Templar spec? 

I hate them! They always try to kill poor Merrill.

But really, those templars did not really seem subtle, and yet they still manage to get the jump on the mages.

You would they would atleast pay attention to... You know... The front entrance where the giant templar army will attack from.

They all should have just spawned in the tower. Or rained down from the sky like the bandits at night.

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Am I the only one wondering why the order needs to "cross the lake" in the first place? Shouldn't they be stationed... you know AT THE CIRCLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD?

They are stationed there.
Apparently Meredith took ALL the Templars with her to chase Orsino.
No I don't get it either.

Well, he's an elf, those are sneaky buggers   

I don't get the whole "you've already been fighting us, but have a rest, we'll lay siege and butcher you after you've prepared yourself" dialogue either :|

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lithuasil wrote...
Well, he's an elf, those are sneaky buggers   

I don't get the whole "you've already been fighting us, but have a rest, we'll lay siege and butcher you after you've prepared yourself" dialogue either :|

That's Bioware's way of saying that Meredith has some honour. Before making her bat**** crazy a few minutes later.

She just reeks of incompetence when she said that.

[AshenEndymion]

Lithuasil wrote...

Am I the only one wondering why the order needs to "cross the lake" in the first place? Shouldn't they be stationed... you know AT THE CIRCLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD?

The templars don't need to cross the lake.  Meredith does.  She brings a number of her order out to follow Orsino, so if he resists, there is no question that he submits.

But when Meredith makes the Annulment announcement, it's not like every templar in the Gallows knows this.  And I was under the opinion that Orsino makes it back to the Gallows first, and I assume that the majority of the templars are told to "contain the situation within the Circle and await orders." The latter is what they did with Ferelden. It's not far-fetched that templars are trained to do that from day one.  Contain, then attack with full force.