1927 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AshenEndemion wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

We should have seen templars cutting down young or scared mages down with glee, or perhaps even just execute mages who have downright surrended.

We do see the latter. The cinematic we see in Lowtown during the sequence. And the templars are rather apologetic about having to kill the mage, but because the Rite requires no exceptions, they follow through(or attempt to).

True enough. But I think that one moment does not change the fact that we fight against ALOT of demons, blood mages and abominations.

Like said above. Almost all mages we meet are either crazy, hysterical or idiots.

[AlexXIV]

Paeyne wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Paeyne wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

There is not one scinilla of evidence in there that Anders did not act alone.  Even Meridith apparently thinks he did given that she doesn't challenge (or even care) when the first enchanter insists the circle had nothing to do with it.  You conspiracy theory has no game support and no lore support.  It didn't happen that way.  Merdith simply wants to kill all mages for being mages at this point.  Her actions and reactions make that brutally obvious.

-Polaris

I generally try to be open minded *snip*

Reading the rest of your post makes this part a blatant lie.

Since when do open minded persons condemn people because the could be guilty?

This is an extremely skewed reading of what I wrote.

No-where did I condemn anyone of anything.  In fact, I stated quite explicitly that we don't know either way.

If I were to kill someone, the absence of any proof that I committed the act does not make me any less a killer.

If you want to interpret what I said as a condemnation then your welcome to your opinion but that is not what I wrote.

Even our current legal system is based on guilty and not guilty.  There is a difference between being found not guilty of an act and being innocent of the act.

In our legal system everyone is innocent unless proven otherwise. Don't know about yours. But if yours is anyhow close to ours, then why do you even object with Polaris? No proof means innocence in legal terms. You can't base judgement based on a feeling or an idea. Even if the most experienced and successful police officer says that he is 100% sure that the culprit is guilty ... if he does not have a proof then no court in the civilized world will take it as any sort of evidence.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 avril 2011 - 10:55 .

[The Angry One]

ddv.rsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Not even Quentin?

I wanted to backhand slap Grace a lot though. Hysterical idiot.

Well, whatever else you do, you're still the monster who murders the love of her life for the templars. 

Even though he was the idiot who attacked first.
And she lied about not being a blood mage (she later admits she learned everything from Decimus so she didn't pick it up while at Kirkwall).

[KnightofPhoenix]

ddv.rsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Not even Quentin?

I wanted to backhand slap Grace a lot though. Hysterical idiot.

Well, whatever else you do, you're still the monster who murders the love of her life for the templars. 

She turned on him.
Sure she can hate Hawke all she wants. Why kill her allies that risk everything to help her kind that has proven to be extremily idiotic and unstable?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 avril 2011 - 10:49 .

[The Angry One]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We needed some moderate mage we could identify with. Or two.

Which Orsino could've been, but instead..

[Camenae]

I felt sorry for Grace actually. If she loved Decimus then she loved him. I think what she did was stupid, but I can't say that if someone killed my boyfriend, even for a good reason, that I would never ever be driven crazy by grief. Especially if I had a support system that was as bad as hers.

Although I can't commend her for her taste in men...Decimus is, um, not attractive. But to each her own!

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
We should have also seen mages who use the chaos and anarchy as an excuse to unleash whatever sadistic powers they have. And templars who are struggling and getting torn apart by them.

We saw a blood mage killing hisw wife for no reason. We saw the imbecile Grace killing her own allies because she misses her ********** husband too much (and probably hasn't had sex for a very long time).  We see crazy mages all over the place.

We needed some moderate mage we could identify with. Or two.

Ha! I admit that the end of the third act was biased against mages. My point with that post was that I just wanted something to demonstrate the cruelty that exist on both sides, and make the conflict seem more tragic.

Granted it would demand a rewrite of the entire third act. With a complete removal of the idol and other "evil influence from the outside".

[AlexXIV]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

stobie wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

stobie wrote...
the mages needed more jerks.

What?
Almost all mages end up being crazed, hysterical, or outright idiots.

Well, to each his own, but not all the meanest mages together could be as annoying as Petrice. 

Not even Quentin?

I wanted to backhand slap Grace a lot though. Hysterical idiot.

Quentin was a maniac. Psycho ... whatever. You can't really count mentally disturbed people as either good or evil.

[stobie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

stobie wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

stobie wrote...
the mages needed more jerks.

What?
Almost all mages end up being crazed, hysterical, or outright idiots.

Well, to each his own, but not all the meanest mages together could be as annoying as Petrice. 

Not even Quentin?

I wanted to backhand slap Grace a lot though. Hysterical idiot.

Grace was pretty much Petrice - except her voice didn't make me want to punch kittens quite as much - and she wasn't as evasive.   (and she wasn't spouting some religion as justification)    And I forgot Quentin, but his bit seemed like a horror movie aside, that could have been done by a mad doctor. 

As to the degree of Badness, it goes back to intent for me. There, Petrice seems far worse than pretty much anyone.   Isn't that what keeps, say, Loghain from being a complete villain vs Howe? 

[_Somebody]

Bethany is the only normal mage in the game. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We needed some moderate mage we could identify with. Or two.

Which Orsino could've been, but instead..

Exactly.

sigh. Thank the Maker for Anders who provided the only interesting thing in Act3's conclusion.

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

I felt sorry for Grace actually. If she loved Decimus then she loved him. I think what she did was stupid, but I can't say that if someone killed my boyfriend, even for a good reason, that I would never ever be driven crazy by grief. Especially if I had a support system that was as bad as hers.

Remember, he attacked despite her warnings.
That'd be the equivalent of a boyfriend of mine pulling a gun on the cops and then getting shot.
Would I be mad? No! He pulled a gun on the cops! What did he expect! 

[stobie]

Camenae wrote...

I felt sorry for Grace actually. If she loved Decimus then she loved him. I think what she did was stupid, but I can't say that if someone killed my boyfriend, even for a good reason, that I would never ever be driven crazy by grief. Especially if I had a support system that was as bad as hers.

Although I can't commend her for her taste in men...Decimus is, um, not attractive. But to each her own!

Her taste is questionable - maybe he was cute naked?  UGH!!!  (I hate myself & require brain bleach now)  Anyway, I got the impression it was all about power for her, not love.  He gave her power.  But she did speak as if she loved him, which maybe kept me from despising her as I did Petrice.  But mostly, I think it's the voice.  I had to mute Petrice.  That's not a criticism, though - they did a great job at making her ghastly!

[stobie]

Somebody wrote...

Bethany is the only normal mage in the game. 

Normal is over-rated.

[Camenae]

If you can't really count mentally disturbed people as good or evil, then you should cut templars like Ser Alrik out of the equation as well.

You can't cite the actions of mentally disturbed people on the Templar side just because it helps you prove your point, and then turn around and say the mentally disturbed people on the Mage side don't count. They either all factor into the equation, or they all don't.

[The Angry One]

stobie wrote...

Her taste is questionable - maybe he was cute naked?  UGH!!!  (I hate myself & require brain bleach now)

Share the bleach plz.

Anyway, I got the impression it was all about power for her, not love.  He gave her power.  But she did speak as if she loved him, which maybe kept me from despising her as I did Petrice.  But mostly, I think it's the voice.  I had to mute Petrice.  That's not a criticism, though - they did a great job at making her ghastly!

I imagine Decimus was like a cult leader. Usually hideous people in both mind and body who attract others all the same.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

Camenae wrote...

I felt sorry for Grace actually. If she loved Decimus then she loved him. I think what she did was stupid, but I can't say that if someone killed my boyfriend, even for a good reason, that I would never ever be driven crazy by grief. Especially if I had a support system that was as bad as hers.

Remember, he attacked despite her warnings.
That'd be the equivalent of a boyfriend of mine pulling a gun on the cops and then getting shot.
Would I be mad? No! He pulled a gun on the cops! What did he expect! 

No, you should kill the only people who give a damn about your existence and rights. To kill the cop who acted in self defense and who potentially tried to help you.

Makes perfect sense.

Yea no. I can't feel sorry for that hysterical imbecile.
 

[ddv.rsa]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

She turned on him.
Sure she can hate Hawke all she wants. Why kill her allies that risk everything to help her kind that has proven to be extremily idiotic and unstable?

I'm being sarcastic. That woman was just crazy. Poor Thrask ended up being a textbook example of why Templars shouldn't be soft on mages. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

ddv.rsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

She turned on him.
Sure she can hate Hawke all she wants. Why kill her allies that risk everything to help her kind that has proven to be extremily idiotic and unstable?

I'm being sarcastic. That woman was just crazy. Poor Thrask ended up being a textbook example of why Templars shouldn't be soft on mages. 

I know. I appreciate the tragedy of Thrask. But the sheer level of madness / idiocy of mages just made it a bit ridiculous for me. I feel that Thrask was an idiot as much as I feel sorry for him. ruins it a bit I think. 

[AlexXIV]

Obviously when Bioware was finished with the first version of DA2 they found that the mages looked too good. So they added a couple of more bloodmages, made them kill Hawke's mother and let the first enchanter turn into a harvester. Too bad they went far over the goal with that so that it is hard for me and probably many others to take it seriously. I mean we know by now that the rate of bloodmages and bloodmagic based crimes is only that high because they wanted to prevent everyone to side with the mages. So now at least ... like ... 30% ? ... of the players side with the templars.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 avril 2011 - 10:59 .

[stobie]

Camenae wrote...

If you can't really count mentally disturbed people as good or evil, then you should cut templars like Ser Alrik out of the equation as well.

You can't cite the actions of mentally disturbed people on the Templar side just because it helps you prove your point, and then turn around and say the mentally disturbed people on the Mage side don't count. They either all factor into the equation, or they all don't.

True, but you can still look at the intent of the disturbed people.  With Quentin, he's trying to get his wife back, in the creepiest, most selfish way possible.  For Alrik?  I didn't think of him as disturbed in the first place - I thought he just liked abusing mages. For Grace, I took it as power - she'd hitched herself to what she thought was a powerful man, & hates you for messing that up.  Her intent probably wasn't freedom, or she would be long gone, rather than hanging around blaming you for not giving her enough crackers to last 3 years, or whatever it was.

[The Angry One]

In my opinion if Thrask had to die then he should've been killed by Templars for being a "robe lover".
Perhaps even having a mage (like a non-imbecilic Grace) trying to save him.

[stobie]

ddv.rsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

She turned on him.
Sure she can hate Hawke all she wants. Why kill her allies that risk everything to help her kind that has proven to be extremily idiotic and unstable?

I'm being sarcastic. That woman was just crazy. Poor Thrask ended up being a textbook example of why Templars shouldn't be soft on mages. 

Or maybe they should be more selective when deciding with whom to side, whether mage or not?

[Camenae]

Well, not like I said Grace came about her decision with calm and sound reasoning and I fully support her! Just saying in terms of feeling bad about losing someone she loves, I can see how that happened. She was crazy no question. But I think losing someone you love will hurt no matter why you lost them or if other people found them lovable or not. And people can and often do react to emotional pain in irrational ways.

Don't misunderstand me in the unique way that the Internet does, lol. Feeling bad for Grace's bereavement =/= agreeing with her actions.

[stobie]

The Angry One wrote...

In my opinion if Thrask had to die then he should've been killed by Templars for being a "robe lover".
Perhaps even having a mage (like a non-imbecilic Grace) trying to save him.

That would have been a lot better. 

Isabella has a great quote about freedom & choices - and I wish I remembered it.  I think it's a conversation with Fenris, about everyone being dangerous.