1927 Antworten in diesem Thema

[DKJaigen]

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Oh but you are obligated. Your are given a voice a vote and rights in return your democratic elected leaders may demand war. Dont like it? Then leave if you find the morals of your fellows aberrent . Plenty of germans left germany when Hitler was elected and those germans bear no blame for ww2.

The loyalist fraternity decided to come (most likely out of cowardice) to andorhals reach and participate  with the vote. They got overruled now they have to deal with it.

Also i dont believe in freedom because thats anarchy. The mages fight for so they can control themselves.

You pretty much contradict yourself there. On one hand you say that if I don't like the fact that my leaders have declared war then I should just leave the country. Then you claim that if loyalists don't like the fact that they have been out voted then they should just deal with it.

If anything your point should be that if the loyalists don't like it they can high tail it out of there or back to the Chantry et al if they like. They still (according to your first statement) shouldn't have to just deal with it.

Further more, from what I'm reading so far, they didn't even attend the conclave to vote for independance. It was sprung on them by Fiona tapping her staff and demanding separation. I haven't read further so I don't know if there was a second meeting on the actual topic of separation. Hopefully I'll finish up soon.

And controlling themselves is something that should never happen so I'm with the Templars on that.

Oh But the loyallist chose to stay part fo the circle by coming to andorhals reach knowing full whats going to happen their so they are still part of the circle. Sure they can leave but in wartime that is treason. 

And mundanes cannot rule because that is impossible .Because mundanes cannot see the same things as mages do and theirfore mundanes cannot comprehend mages. And i will remind you that the templar order commited treason to both orlais and the chantry. And i mean high treason for which each one of them is deserving of the noose . furthermore they instigated a war that plunged thedas into a bloodbath without any chance of resolving this through diplomacy . The templar order is finished: the nobles will have their heads sooner rather then later so supporting them will likely accomplish nothing. If you support the chantry you will support the status quo and you will allow this to happen again. And you cannot kill the mages because they are vital for the defense of thedas.

Oh BTW Lambert was corrupt and powerhungry (suprise suprise) and only created this little war so he could create a new little order with him as the big wig.

Bearbeitet von DKJaigen, 16 Mai 2013 - 02:56 .

[LobselVith8]

Hazegurl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You made the comparison to a hypothetical country and the Loyalists' reaction to the democratic vote that took place. The entire reason the democratic vote took place was because of the Chantry controlled Circles where mages were... <snip>

Thinking that the Loyalists' feelings shouldn't override the independence of the others who seek independence from a cruel and brutal system where they are relatively powerless makes it entirely different than your comparison to a country (more specifically, DKJaigen's point about leaving said country when you dislike the direction the country is going in).

With all the Circles across the continent in the Andrastian kingdoms following suit.

Which would be illegal if it wasn't given to your Warden as a royal boon by the new ruler of the kingdom, as we know from the example of Connor. 

Once again, the comparison was made based on whether or not the loyalists (as well as the other smaller fraternities) have a right to part ways from the Libertarians and Aequitarians. Separation from the Chantry and Templars at this point is a non issue considering that that desicion has already been made and it is done.  

I read the comparison: "You pretty much contradict yourself there. On one hand you say that if I don't like the fact that my leaders have declared war then I should just leave the country. Then you claim that if loyalists don't like the fact that they have been out voted then they should just deal with it." What you intended with what you wrote and how I read your post weren't the same. That's fine, but that doesn't mean I wasn't paying attention to what you wrote; it's simply that I didn't read it as you intended.

Hazegurl wrote...

Now I have a feeling this will fly over your head so here is a question.

That's not really helpful to a good discussion. However, I can understand the frustration of being misunderstood. I once dealt with someone who spent several pages refusing to acknowledge that he misread what I wrote, even when the person I was posting with also pointed out that he made a mistake.

Hazegurl wrote...

Do you think the loyalists and other smaller factions should be forced to fight even if they don't want to or should they be free to do whatever they want whether its return to the Circle or go off in hiding?

No, I don't. I advocate mage autonomy from the Andrastian Chantry and the Templar Order, but I don't think the Loyalists and the smaller factions should be forced to fight. If someone like Finn wanted to return to the templars, then I suppose I wouldn't stop him.

Hazegurl wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that it's the two largest groups making that choice for everyone.

It was a democratic vote.

Hazegurl wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that I got it while you got nothing.  

I got the new ruler of Ferelden to publicly proclaim that mages have earned the right to govern themselves, after nearly a millennia of the Chantry preaching that mages belonged in the Chantry controlled Circles. I also loved how Irving acknowledged that my Hero of Ferelden could have asked for a title and riches, but thought more about freeing his people from their "shackles" than personal gain.

And my Surana Warden got his Mabari Hound, his love interest, and his son - the teyrnir of Gwaren means little in comparison.

[Hazegurl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

 I don't think the Loyalists and the smaller factions should be forced to fight. If someone like Finn wanted to return to the templars, then I suppose I wouldn't stop him.

Stop the presses!! We agree on something! :lol:

I got the new ruler of Ferelden to publicly proclaim that mages have earned the right to govern themselves, after nearly a millennia of the Chantry preaching that mages belonged in the Chantry controlled Circles. I also loved how Irving acknowledged that my Hero of Ferelden could have asked for a title and riches, but thought more about freeing his people from their "shackles" than personal gain.

And my Surana Warden got his Mabari Hound, his love interest, and his son - the teyrnir of Gwaren means little in comparison.

Then it's all a matter of perspective. Can't fault you for that. You love your ending and I love mine.