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what do you think about the elf changes?


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#76
tmp7704

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Herr Uhl wrote...

I just don't see why you need to invent a new specie if they'll look very similar humans and have similar life-cycles and abilities.

Well, as reverse side of this coin i don't see why you need to make such species very visually different -- there's thousands and millions of species out there in our own world very similar to one another. How many people can tell jaguar from leopard on a picture, for example?

When it comes to the DA elves it also makes sense to make them separate species if similar life-cycles and abilities aren't supposed to be the natural state of things for them -- it'd be quite harder to sell a story how a group of humans for some reason was able to live thousands time longer than their own brethren.

#77
Gamer Ftw

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they look distinct all right.
I have never seen elves with bulging foreheads before. everyone is entitled to their opinion donot ingest.
The DA 2 elves do not look like traditional elves, like I have already said they look deformed.
classic elves are long eared but do not have bulgy foreheads.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 03 avril 2011 - 02:39 .


#78
tmp7704

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Gilsa wrote...

Now that the DA2 elves have models that are lithe with different body animations and unique facial strutures (apart from their ears), they look like their own race. It's easier for me to see them as adults rather than mini-mes.  Tell me you get the gist of what I'm saying! =p

I see. You know what's funny, though? Image IPB  From what Mr.Gaider wrote (somewhere back in Merrill thread iirc) the DA2 elves were made taller because they (devs) felt the new, lithe body type actually made them look more like human kids when combined with their original height, compared to shape of the DAO model.

And it's probably just me, but i really have to scratch my head when i see person after person say the new elves are "oh soo much more disctinct now". Because in my eyes they still look like humans with bit of StarTrek type of face alterations... they're just now scrawny humans instead of shorter humans. With some awful animations (because it seems they're just forced to play the same animations human do, and the more narrow skeleton just isn't built for that... making them in the end walk just awkward, when they're supposed to be graceful and whatnot. sigh)

Modifié par tmp7704, 03 avril 2011 - 02:51 .


#79
Addai

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tmp7704 wrote...
And it's probably just me, but i really have to scratch my head when i see person after person say the new elves are "oh soo much more disctinct now". Because in my eyes they still look like humans with bit of StarTrek type of face alterations... they're just now scrawny humans instead of shorter humans. With some awful animations (because it seems they're just forced to play the same animations human do, and the more narrow skeleton just isn't built for that... making them in the end walk just awkward, when they're supposed to be graceful and whatnot. sigh)

I do think Merrill's idle animations, for instance, are graceful and they suit her.  I just... cringe when I see her limbs, especially in the YouTube videos I've seen of the romance scenes.  That arm around Hawke's shoulder sure isn't human.  I'm not sure it could pick up a fork, let alone wield a mage staff.  I mean, I thought that about DAO elven limbs, too (until your mod :kissing:).  Several people have pointed out that Origins elves weren't that great-looking, either.  Yes, but one would hope that improvements would be made, not make them even uglier and stranger-looking.

#80
tmp7704

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Addai67 wrote...

I do think Merrill's idle animations, for instance, are graceful and they suit her.  I just... cringe when I see her limbs, especially in the YouTube videos I've seen of the romance scenes.

The idle ones are okay i agree, it's mostly the walks that bug me. Well, that and how the animations just snap with little to no transitions from walk to stand and such... err, rambling. As for the limbs yes, i had to make Merrill's model just tiny bit sturdier myself, the original was nearly unbearable Image IPB

Modifié par tmp7704, 03 avril 2011 - 03:05 .


#81
DoNotIngest

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Gamer Ftw wrote...



they look distinct all right.
I have never seen elves with bulging foreheads before. everyone is entitled to their opinion donot ingest.
The DA 2 elves do not look like traditional elves, like I have already said they look deformed.
classic elves are long eared but do not have bulgy foreheads.



Orsino's the only bulgy forehead I've seen. Everyone is entitled to their opinion; It's grating on people with differing opinions, however, to see somebody saying "they looked deformed", like it's a fact, when it's just that one person's opinion.

#82
Matterialize

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I have mixed feelings about the new elves. On one hand, I don't find them repulsive or anything, and I like that they're quite distinct. Their new appearance lends themselves to the "second class citizen" stigma that surrounds their race - people lashing out at something strange is common.

On the other hand, they've completely lost their capacity for badassery, like this:

Image IPB

Even Zevran and Fenris, who are arguably the most badass elves in DA2, don't really look the part.

#83
Gilsa

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tmp7704 wrote...

And it's probably just me, but i really have to scratch my head when i see person after person say the new elves are "oh soo much more disctinct now". Because in my eyes they still look like humans with bit of StarTrek type of face alterations... they're just now scrawny humans instead of shorter humans. With some awful animations (because it seems they're just forced to play the same animations human do, and the more narrow skeleton just isn't built for that... making them in the end walk just awkward, when they're supposed to be graceful and whatnot. sigh)

I hear ya. Idle animations aren't the greatest, but they look fantastic in cutscenes, especially where the Keeper enters the alienage and the elves welcome her respectfully.  It's not just the facial features that look different to me. I remembered seeing an elf with an unique hairstyle (I assume it's exclusive to elves because I have not seen it on anyone else) and thinking she looked so awesome with it swept back. ;)

Image IPB

But I can see why you're not thrilled with the overall changes though.

#84
Gamer Ftw

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I don't get why they just didn't take the original elves and give them longer ears and more angular faces.
Or even make the other elves look as good as merrill and Fenris[although Fenris looks like a stiff wind would blow him away]

#85
DoNotIngest

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I can sympathize with wanting the elves to look a little more able to kick ass; Still, the hunters outside of the Dalish camp at your first meeting certainly don't look harmless, and other than Fenris, they aren't unmuscled. A little more grit and I think the elves would be spot-on, though.

#86
Lady Orc

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I'm fine with the eyes, and I'm fine with the ears. That forehead bulge makes me go 'Ew' though. Also the hunchback - I had noticed it in Fenris, but is it a general elf thing? If so, add that to my list of disliked new features.

#87
Guest_PureMethodActor_*

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Brockololly wrote...

adneate wrote...

The elves in DA2 are probably the laziest most artistically bankrupt fantasy race ever put in a video game. Most of the faces look like someone spent about 7 seconds randomly fiddling with the sliders while the two Elf companion characters look as human-like as possible. Basically proving the entire concept that "Oh the Elves have to look different" is 100% BS because they know nobody wants to be followed around by some lop eared freak show. The entire race is somehow less believable and convincing than they were in Origins and considering that this is a race that doesn't exist that is saying something.


Yup- Everybody says how great Fenris and Merrill look, when of all the elves, they look probably the most human in terms of facial features which seems to sort of miss the point of their redesign.

Just overall, I liked how in Origins the elves and Qunari did look somewhat more human overall though. The changes made in DA2 just make the non human races seem more like they came from different planets, not different areas of the world. Its fine to have them visually distinct and so some changes  are fine, but the redesigned races look more generic now when compared to your other typical fantasy settings. The nice thing in Origins I thought was how the races only differed a little in their physical look, but it was culturally and philosophically where they were distinct and unique when compared amongst each other.


Well-put, Brock. You basically touched on everything I was gonna say as far as the new look, itself, goes. I honestly loved the similarities in physicality between the races, with the social, economic, and religious factors being the main dividers. It was original, which furthered Dragon Age's direction towards a truly original fantasy series (in which elves aren't a high-class species, but more on the bottom-rung). With Dragon Age 2, the elves look too alien, and the Qunari look just way too extremely different and demonic. It comes across as a bit cheesy.

If the devs thought a change in accent for the dalish was absolutely necessary, then fine, I can accept it. I'm getting used to it, I think. However, I really liked how humans were the majority of characters who had accents, whereas elves and dwarves have more "american" (I'd prefer to call it neutral) accents, which included the Dalish in DAO. I know there are some exceptions in DAO to this rule (Bodahn, Sarel, one of the elf mages in the circle I think), but overall this rule was consistent. Now elves of the woods have accents, and it seems too cliche for me. Plus, this adds a whole new complication if the Warden is coming back, and with a voice; ideally it could have been 6 VOs ina  future title, one voice per race/gender combo, but the added Dalish accent has 2 extra potential voices to do.

#88
Teramore

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Elves look like pale skinned Na'vis (from the movie "Avatar"). I can hardly believe that many Thedans consider elves to be beautiful.

#89
Narreneth

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It's kind of two ways for me.

First, I'm glad that they don't look like humans with pointy ears. So that's good.

Second, I think the elves look ridiculously bad. So that's bad. I think overall they are an improvement only because they are distinguishable.

Also, Merrill looks better than the others, but she's still hideous.

#90
Chiramu

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IMO some elves look good while others look UG~LY.

Zevran is one particular elf that has suffered badly due to the change. Fenarel however has become more handsome because of the change :D.

I don't like any of the female elves, the male elves(especially the Dalish) are much better looking :D.

#91
Wompoo

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I enjoy the idle animations and the walking/runing, on a whole they are quite elegent... most of the new eleven features are fine, just a little over emphasised. Merrill looks a little like a young Audry Hepburn to me. Also @ Matterialize, it is a shame that armor in both DA:O and DA2 imo do not look any where near as good as that picture, the armor designs are simply very very average and lack variety badly. Elves in DnD without hair look more like ET as well "Sun Elves or Moon Elves". I hope they keep the new model and just refine it now.

#92
Captain Iglo

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Well DAO didnt had any elfs or qunari, they were all just humans in my eyes.
So I'm glad they changed the look. Its not perfect, but it couldnt get much worse then Origins.

#93
Gamer Ftw

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I want a LI that looks like the dalish concept art woot sexy.

#94
The 13th Black Cat

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I'm a bit torn. At first, I was very anti the new elves, since Merrill looked incredibly weird to me and Zevran was...not treated kindly by the change. I've since gotten used to Merrill, and I even like her (except for her hair...never liked that hair) but Zev still makes me cringe a bit. Mind you, some of the elves look VERY nice...Fenris and Orsino come to mind.

I do like them looking different, but I think I'd have liked it much more if they'd looked like this in Origins. In any case, I'd rather the "norm" be a happy medium between the new elves and the Origins elves (with them BUILT more like Origins elves, mind you...was it necessary to make them ridiculously stick-thin?). I'd also like it if there was more variation so they didn't ALL look so "elfy". After all, you could probably find a pretty elven-looking human NPC, but why do none of the elf NPCs look unusually human? Oh, and give the poor things shoes, because that's just stupid. Really, if nothing else you'd think DALISH elves would have learned to appreciate a good pair of boots...

#95
leggywillow

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Gilsa wrote...
Image IPB


I hope this isn't too off-topic, but who the hell is this elf?!  She's freaky as all-get-out.  Her eyes have the same blood magic'd/possessed look that Orsino and Huon's get right before they go crazy, and she only shows up in the Dalish camp in Act 3, IIRC.  Plus you can actually speak to her instead of  just hearing ambient dialogue.

Does she ever actually do anything?  Or do we ever hear anything else about her?

#96
Addai

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Lady Orc wrote...

I'm fine with the eyes, and I'm fine with the ears. That forehead bulge makes me go 'Ew' though. Also the hunchback - I had noticed it in Fenris, but is it a general elf thing? If so, add that to my list of disliked new features.

Just Fenris, and meant to show his slavery I think.

I also don't mind a high nose ridge- it can look regal- but a bit exaggerated in most cases.

#97
Abispa

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I like the fact that Elves, Dwarves and Qunari all look like different species now. Complaining that Elves don't look all "bad ass" seems silly since they don't go around trying to be tough unless provoked.

I've handled chimpanzees that were much smaller than me and didn't have huge muscles and wound up thrown across a room; not looking like a body builder shouldn't be interpreted as looking weak. Zevran is an assassin, and as such should appear as non-threatening as possible to be effective. And by not looking like the starving fashion models in the first game, DA hopefully is encouraging players to NOT base their LIs on an Elf's ability to model for Abercrombe & Finch.

Qunari look "bad ass" because so far we've only seen their soldiers, and most our dealings with Dwarves has also been predominantly military in nature.

#98
Xeyska

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The elf redesign is alright, though some of faces I've seen in the game could use some more tweaking and a few more eye selections to vary them out, (hairstyles too). Orana, for example, looked absolutely horrifying and Zevran looked like he suffered a stroke and aged ten years. They also need to wear shoes again.

Modifié par Xeyska, 03 avril 2011 - 06:47 .


#99
Abispa

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Shoes, yes! Damn, but that bothered me.

And while I like the changes to the races, the "generic" race models are much more intrusive in this game than in the first, probably because the characters are so much bigger and the close-ups. I mean, it wouldn't be racist to say all Qunari look alike.

#100
Masako52

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I LOVE the changes. They look like their own race. I like that they are as tall as humans now, just more slim and with slightly different facial structure. It makes them more unique. Plus, Fenris and Merrill are just both gorgeous.