22 réponses à ce sujet

[Trikun]

Well.. I have to admit, I'm a bit worried if there will ever be a proper toolkit upgrade. Considering the fact that the maps seem to be 'pre-manufactured' in quite a different way (specifically made to look the way they do, and connect the way they do), rather than the way they did the Dragon Age Origins maps, which were pieced together with smaller map sections. It just seems to me that it is less likely that they'll be able to make the toolkit work the way we would want... Any thoughts on this?

[HyperLimited]

I'm sure they can do it, it's just a matter of whether or not they want to do it, or invest the time and effort to do it.

Considering how the game felt quite mediocre for me after several playthroughs, I'm not eager to see a toolset update. Then again, the idea of what the fanbase can do to further "enhance" the game intrigues me.

[nicodeemus327]

Then again, the idea of what the fanbase can do to further "enhance" the game intrigues me.

Me too. I tired to play DAO without mods not long before DA2 came out. I just couldn't do it. I had to add certain mods to even play it.

[Trikun]

Well, of course they can do it if they want to, but consider the amount of work it would present (if my assumption of the levels beeing completly designed to be the way they are)! In DA:O much of the game was built of 'map-blocks'... DA2 just feels.. different in that aspect when playing..

It just doesn't seem likely that bioware would put in the effort and time to create the map sections nessecary to create custom games (after all, I imagine people don't really need another mansion of warehouse side-quest). They could do a 'limited to existing maps' release, but considering the amount of heat they got due to the reuse of maps, I don't think that's likely either...

[Morroian]

Considering the reception DA2 has got they're idiots if they don't release an upgrade even if only to regain some goodwill.

[rayvioletta]

I still remain hopeful. BioWare posters have even said themselves that a toolset adds to a games lifespan and makes people more likely to buy DLC/expansions etc, and considering how badly DA2 needs some replay value I'd think a toolset should be a high priority
we shall have to wait and see though

[daywalker03]

I hope it's the next thing they work on after the patch, to be honest.

[wulfsturm]

It's highly doubtful it will ever be updated.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 02 avril 2011 - 11:10 .

[translucentwolf]

Unfortunately.... PC is no longer being regarded as a 'bonus' by EA.

" As Gibeau noted, his company is looking to change that by capitalizing
on the digital side of the PC games market, a space that delivers high
margins and a large customer base to capitalize on. Best of all, it's
larger than the traditional PC games retail channel. "

The 'High Margin' is the sale DLC content.  It would be directly counterproductive to BiowarEA to give players a toolset, with which they would create their own (free) additional content.

We can expect more console tactics to come.  Google Operation 10 Dollar for more fun info.

Modifié par translucentwolf, 02 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[mesmerizedish]

translucentwolf wrote...

Unfortunately.... PC is no longer being regarded as a 'bonus' by EA.

" As Gibeau noted, his company is looking to change that by capitalizing
on the digital side of the PC games market, a space that delivers high
margins and a large customer base to capitalize on. Best of all, it's
larger than the traditional PC games retail channel. "


We can expect more console tactics to come.  Google Operation 10 Dollar for more fun info.

He hopes to sell more PC games through digital distribution. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

And I actually like Operation 10 Dollar. It makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint. Used game sales don't help developers at all.

[EDIT] Now that I've actually read the article, I like it even more. Only good can come from EA focusing more on the PC market. That means more games designed with the PC in mind, and more games designed with PC gamers in mind.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 02 avril 2011 - 11:29 .

[rayvioletta]

translucentwolf wrote...

It would be directly counterproductive to BiowarEA to give players a toolset, with which they would create their own (free) additional content.

as I mentioned, not only is the opposite true but BioWare themselves had said as much. plus Origins had some great player created mods and yet the DLC sold very well. no matter how good the player made mods are, they simply don't have the resources available (even with a toolset) that the BioWare developers themselves do. plus no matter how much we may love some of the mods, no matter how great the story they tell we know deep down that they are not part of the official story and will not be reflected in later offical content

but the most important thing is that people are much more likely to buy DLC for a game they still play. people are much more likely to play a game, especially one so lacking in replay incentive, if there is fresh content. player made mods are a great way to keep fresh content coming while they're still working on their own

[MishraArtificer]

Used game sales help me. A LOT.

Yet more proof that when profits level out, the poor are the first to be $#!t on.

[Trikun]

Well, my impression is that the toolset for DA:O was always intended for release, and the only reason it took a while was to remove any bugs and tweak it for 'consumer friendly' use. For DA2 it seems they haven't even checked how much work it is (at least according the the posts regarding the toolset from earlier). This, and the way the map-design looks compared to DA:O, makes me worried... :\\

[daywalker03]

Trikun; it's already possible to use the current toolset (if you have DAO already installed) for some things in DA2. The main things we can't do with it (to my knowledge) are conversations and new levels, though if some things I've read are accurate, it may be possible to use content made for DAO in DA2; I haven't tried that yet.

[MKDAWUSS]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

translucentwolf wrote...

Unfortunately.... PC is no longer being regarded as a 'bonus' by EA.

" As Gibeau noted, his company is looking to change that by capitalizing
on the digital side of the PC games market, a space that delivers high
margins and a large customer base to capitalize on. Best of all, it's
larger than the traditional PC games retail channel. "


We can expect more console tactics to come.  Google Operation 10 Dollar for more fun info.

He hopes to sell more PC games through digital distribution. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

And I actually like Operation 10 Dollar. It makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint. Used game sales don't help developers at all.

[EDIT] Now that I've actually read the article, I like it even more. Only good can come from EA focusing more on the PC market. That means more games designed with the PC in mind, and more games designed with PC gamers in mind.

I'll be over here waiting for Madden and NCAA (FB & BB) to make their way back to PC...

[translucentwolf]

I like having more games for PC. But, with a focus on selling DLC, I believe we'll see BiowarEA move away from providing support for game modification. Again, by allowing users to create their own 'DLC' type content, they would lessen demand for their own content.

Have a look at Mass Effect for an example of a game with *no* support for modification by the designers. The only way to obtain additional content ( not simple recolors of armor... ) is to buy them from Bioware.

You can see that Dragon Age II took a number of design points from Mass Effect 2. Beyond just the conversation wheel. They re-used body movements like the 'order / drink' thing in the bar.

Anyway, we're lucky that brilliant members of the community like Thought Process / Gib, Sunnie, Elys and others have been able to provide tips to on how to use the * last gen * editor tools to do the mods that are out now.

Next gen games will almost certainly be even more purposefully obscure in the file naming / folder structure. Make no mistake, gentlemen and ladies. BiowarEA no longer *wants* mods to exist, if they're not getting paid for them.

[daywalker03]

translucentwolf wrote...

I like having more games for PC. But, with a focus on selling DLC, I believe we'll see BiowarEA move away from providing support for game modification. Again, by allowing users to create their own 'DLC' type content, they would lessen demand for their own content.

Have a look at Mass Effect for an example of a game with *no* support for modification by the designers. The only way to obtain additional content ( not simple recolors of armor... ) is to buy them from Bioware.

You can see that Dragon Age II took a number of design points from Mass Effect 2. Beyond just the conversation wheel. They re-used body movements like the 'order / drink' thing in the bar.

Anyway, we're lucky that brilliant members of the community like Thought Process / Gib, Sunnie, Elys and others have been able to provide tips to on how to use the * last gen * editor tools to do the mods that are out now.

Next gen games will almost certainly be even more purposefully obscure in the file naming / folder structure. Make no mistake, gentlemen and ladies. BiowarEA no longer *wants* mods to exist, if they're not getting paid for them.

Mass Effect was a Console Game to start with; in fact, wasn't it intended to be an Xbox 360 exclusive title at one point? How many X360 games do you know of that can be modded to the extent that PC games can be?

Regarding the use of the existing toolset for DA2 mods; since Bioware themselves have stated on more tan one occasion that the toolset they used to make DA2 was a modified version of the one used to make DAO and Awakening, it's only natural that enterprising modders would be able to figure out what would need to be done to use it for DA2 to the extent we have already.

As for the DLC, since console users can't use mods, Bioware has a market for it that will buy them without PC users. I've said it before and will continue saying it; PC DLC sales are bonus sales for them and mods won't change that in the least. Some people have even said that they wouldrather buy DLC than download free content, for the simple reason that since it's created by the game developers, its more official than community content; I disagree, but it's their choice to do so.

[Liquid Wolf]

PC Sales and DLC are becoming a larger market.

Having the toolkit allows other players to create addons, but these addons do not stop players from buying DLC made by Bioware/EA.

Actually, the more players who buy the PC Version because they want player-made addons, the more likely they are to buy PC DLC made by Bioware/EA...

As opposed to people who wonder if the DLC on a console might not be worth it.

Because if the DLC on a PC isn't all that great, your player-base might fix it up to make it worthwhile using the toolkit you provided -

Modifié par Liquid Wolf, 03 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[Trikun]

daywalker03 wrote...

Trikun; it's already possible to use the current toolset (if you have DAO already installed) for some things in DA2. The main things we can't do with it (to my knowledge) are conversations and new levels, though if some things I've read are accurate, it may be possible to use content made for DAO in DA2; I haven't tried that yet.

Well, this I can understand. They have already admitted that the toolset used for DA2 is a modified version of what was used in DA:O so it would make sense that some of the community toolset, in it's current state, is useful. However, we have no idea which parts, and how much was altered for their DA2 build.

Unless they have a clear vision and idea on how to undertake the 'map' situation I mentioned earlier, and how to move the parts of their in-house toolset to the community toolset...  I'm just worried that the amount of work that may
be involved, would prove to be alot more than we think..

[Bebopbeats]

It's also useful to look at the differences between what's in a DLC and what fans are making themselves. There are areas of gameplay that often get ignored in DLCs and patches. Like dialogue fixes and further romance content. That stuff's the  reason I prefer Bioware games, if I just wanted to kill things I'd play, oh.. ANY OTHER GAME.

Maybe Bioware doesn't think enough people care about those things to focus on them. An example would be the new "Arrival" DLC for ME2. I've heard there is very little companion interaction and no new romance info at all so there's very little reason for me to buy it. Hey, the Reapers will get hear eventually either way. And I've read around that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

So fan-made mods that let you interact with LI's more, like extra kissing scenes or fixing all those bugs in the dialogue before the final battle in DA:O, they really make the game more enjoyable for some people. So unless Bioware starts putting more effort in to creating content and fixing errors in this area fan-made mods are definitely fulfilling a purpose that DLCs arn't.

Modifié par Bebopbeats, 03 avril 2011 - 03:03 .

[daywalker03]

Trikun wrote...

daywalker03 wrote...

Trikun; it's already possible to use the current toolset (if you have DAO already installed) for some things in DA2. The main things we can't do with it (to my knowledge) are conversations and new levels, though if some things I've read are accurate, it may be possible to use content made for DAO in DA2; I haven't tried that yet.

Well, this I can understand. They have already admitted that the toolset used for DA2 is a modified version of what was used in DA:O so it would make sense that some of the community toolset, in it's current state, is useful. However, we have no idea which parts, and how much was altered for their DA2 build.

Considering that people are using tools created for Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2 to do some editing that we otherwise couldn't do, I'd say we have some idea what has changed; I even named the things I'm fairly certain are going to need worked on.

Unless they have a clear vision and idea on how to undertake the 'map' situation I mentioned earlier, and how to move the parts of their in-house toolset to the community toolset...  I'm just worried that the amount of work that may
be involved, would prove to be alot more than we think..

I honestly think it's not as different as we think; I suspect it's more a matter of fixing bugs in ours so we don't have to use workarounds.

[DahliaLynn]

To be honest, my feeling is, Bioware is listening to their fans, and will be working on DLC that will cater to that, rather than work on getting a toolset out for DA2. But this is just a hunch.

[rayvioletta]

well if BioWare are listening to their fans then hopefully they're hearing that we want a toolset