166 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Last time Bioware tried something like this was Jade Empire. Now they have tried it again and almost to the same result.

This time has been an even bigger fail, it's created a core of people who feel betrayed and have made things personal. Whether these people will continue to pick appart future releases, is up for debate. But It's put Bioware on the radar in a negative way. It reminds me a little of what our PM said some time back about people getting used to to voting Conservative. This time it's the reverse, people are getting used to giving it to a mediocre Bioware game with both barrels, it may be the start of a trend.

If Bioware loses the hardcore market to Witcher et al. Will they become another Westwood ? What led to Westwoods decline was trying to mix genres at EA's behest, it was a failed experiment. Westwood was closed after a couple of mediocre buggy releases.

Other franchises have managed to continue while adding to what was already there , rather than trying to pander to a nebulous market that may not even exist. Maybe Bioware should look at what those games have done rather than experiment in a time of uncertain finances.

[daemon1129]

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse, although I don't think Bioware is in any trouble anyways...So many people bash CoD, yet the sells are still going stronger than ever. I don't think anyone need to worry for Bioware, just worry about how you will never see another DAO equivalent from Bioware ever again.

[Maconbar]

TOR will likely determine BW's fate.

[Tripedius]

Maconbar wrote...

TOR will likely determine BW's fate.

Then the're doomed. TOR will fail, mark my words. To the OP, BW aren't  'slaves' to the hardcore market but they do have a solid core of fans who specifically like BG, ID and DA:O kind of games. Since no other company really makes those (Atari) fans go crazy when BW starts to move away from those kind of games.

[Horus Blackheart]

More like slaves to the mass market, than the hardcore market at this point from what i've seen.
What happened to taloring for an audence? It's not like even the most money grabing exec would tack on wire work in to a nature program for that WOW factor (but now that I think about it they would if they could get away with it.

[ZombiePowered]

I swear to god, Bioware is doomed every time they release a game.

[Tripedius]

btw I do think every game needs it's hardcore fans. They make all kinds of fan stuff, guids and mods that inrich the game and makes it even more interesting for the ' casual' fan. Also these hardcore fans can hype a game for better or for worse. The game isn't totally dependend on hardcore fans but I do think you can only have a great game (in status) with a solid hardcore fanbase.

[MrTijger]

Maconbar wrote...

TOR will likely determine BW's fate.

No, that will decide Bioware Austin' fate, EA owns Bioware so there is no fate to decide, really, unless EA chooses to drop the name which is doubtful at this juncture.

[The_FenixV]

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

I don't think you should be worried that much. Dates can always change. Plus ME2 was released in January 2010 and they probably started working on the game when they finished. 

[Rutaan]

DA2 is disliked for more than just failing to live up to hardcore RPG expectations. If a game is going to fundamentally change to break open new markets, then it has to do it well, and DA2 doesn't. It comes off as a hodgepodge of marketing gimmicks, all done without creativity or style. The UI is ugly, the armored enemies dropping from the sky is ludicrous, the environments are lifeless and reused ad nauseum, and it has what I consider the worst FedEx missions of any game I have played. That isn't to say that some side missions aren't good, but most are not, and some are an embarrassment.

[Horus Blackheart]

I agree with you Rutaan.

[daemon1129]

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

A sequel to a GOTY and a shooter at the same? Fail in today's market?  No way.  With the name itself, ME3 first week is enough to cover expenses (with such short development time), and I doubt the game will fail that bad to have weak sales.  Most major review sites will give ME3 at least 8.5 regardless of actual quality.

[aksoileau]

No, the hardcore fanbase has a sense of entitlement that really doesn't exist.

[MrTijger]

aksoileau wrote...

No, the hardcore fanbase has a sense of entitlement that really doesn't exist.

That, and like I stated in the Lowtown version of this topic, if there is a real niche market then someone will step in and make games for that market. Who cares what the company logo on the box is as long as you get the game you want?

[DTKT]

Well. It's two things. They failed to cater to the "hardcore" audience while simultaneously creating a poor game that didnt really appeal to the casual audience.

So, basically, it's the worst of two worlds.

[DungeonLord]

Imagine Bioware is a baker and it makes some of the finest sour dough bread in the land. Everyone loves their sour dough bread and they've won several awards for it.

Then one day Bioware decides to drop making sour dough bread and instead focus on making croissants.

This instantly disappoints the sour dough lovers, but they accept grumblingly.

Then when people try the croissants, they realize they still have a tinge of sour dough but without the wholesome goodness that comes with it. They also aren't very good as croissants, because who wants sour croissants?

[Mavkiel]

DungeonLord wrote...

Imagine Bioware is a baker and it makes some of the finest sour dough bread in the land. Everyone loves their sour dough bread and they've won several awards for it.

Then one day Bioware decides to drop making sour dough bread and instead focus on making croissants.

This instantly disappoints the sour dough lovers, but they accept grumblingly.

Then when people try the croissants, they realize they still have a tinge of sour dough but without the wholesome goodness that comes with it. They also aren't very good as croissants, because who wants sour croissants?

I'd have included a weevil bit to that story.

[borelocin]

Bioware were "doomed" after Jade Empire if I remember the forums at the time correctly.

[Merced652]

ToR won't fail like AoC and Aion did, but it won't be nearly so successfully as WoW is for even half as long as WoW.

However the title of the thread is something to consider. Perhaps this is Bioware making the game they want to make, maybe its their goal to make a game that melds the old with the new. Or maybe its just their intention to make 30 hour cinematic storys. Their supposed dependency on the "hardcore" market might just be whats is crushing their soul. They couldn't come out and say "we don't make games for xxx group," so its something to consider. With that though, i will say for a game that is supposed to be cinematic or appeal to a different crowd than the hardcore; it failed miserably and in epic fashion. Company identities can change, but it takes years and can be painful. Perhaps this is bioware changing their identity.

[Cody211282]

By your way of thinking I should hate Jade Empire, and I don't I love the hell out of it. My problem with DA2 is they took a "hardcore"(god I hate using that term) franchise and turned it into a "casual" game. This game as Jade Empire 2 would have been ****in.

[TheJist]

They aren't slaves but what they are known for is their usually more depthful rpgs if they want a new audience then they are going to have to build their merits there and not expect the bioware name to carry them.

Modifié par TheJist, 03 avril 2011 - 01:13 .

[MDarwin]

I think it is completely up to BW, where they wanna go with the DA Franchise. Not to us "Fans". Don't get me wrong, I do not like the "RPG Style" of DA2. But if BW feels they have to go down the DA2 Style, so be it.

They should just say so. I am Ok with that. I will see than, if there other RPG Games out there, more to my liking.

[Merced652]

MDarwin wrote...

I think it is completely up to BW, where they wanna go with the DA Franchise. Not to us "Fans". Don't get me wrong, I do not like the "RPG Style" of DA2. But if BW feels they have to go down the DA2 Style, so be it.

They should just say so. I am Ok with that. I will see than, if there other RPG Games out there, more to my liking.

Thats the thing though, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did such a thing because if they are shifting brand identity then they will want to carry over as much of the fanbase as they can so as to add it to their "new" one. 

[ztonkin]

All I'm hoping is that we don't get any more games in the vein of DA2. What a disappointment. I am pulling for ME3.