166 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

MrTijger wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

What is this "hardcore" fanbase anyway? Do they pay more for a game than anyone else or do they inject more funds into Bioware than anyone else? Do they do advertising for Bioware? Do they do anything at all except claiming to be awesome?

Yes , they do.

A couple of weeks after DA was released 100 or so messages came through from various people saying how much I had to look at this game. Networks like that spread word of mouth sales like wildfire. Those same people are telling me to avoid DA2 like the plague.Hardcore fans run websites, contribute to forums and to meta critic.

While they can never influence a really successful release, they can be the tipping point between success and failure for a mediocre one.

In numbers, Bioware has never been truly successful, hence the title.

Considering how they'll turn on you if you release a game they dont like I'd say no, they do not. Also, if this is their mode of behavior when they do not like something I'd be more than willing to shed those 'fans' today rather than tomorrow.

But you just confirmed they do. Whether you feel it's positive or negative does not change the influence they have beyond a single sale.

[ZombiePowered]

I keep seeing people say DA2 "casualized", but have yet to see them say why. Would some please explain to me, intelligently, how DA2 is more casual than Origins?

[Broken1477]

Please read only the first word of each line of my last post.

[Horus Blackheart]

"casualized", see awesome button , also the shifting to the forefront of style over substance apparently to attract the cool kids. Except the people that's aimed at are generally considered to young to be playing said game.

see awesome button connection marketing I feel the brain drain already

[Trand]

Tripedius wrote...

btw I do think every game needs it's hardcore fans. They make all kinds of fan stuff, guids and mods that inrich the game and makes it even more interesting for the ' casual' fan. Also these hardcore fans can hype a game for better or for worse. The game isn't totally dependend on hardcore fans but I do think you can only have a great game (in status) with a solid hardcore fanbase.

Mass Effect launched November 20, 2007

Mass Effect 2 launched January 18, 2010

So two years two months give or take a day or two, not three years like some tend to believe.

Now if I were a betting man I would guess November 22nd as the launch of ME3 ( the 4 year anniversary of ME ), which means it will be 1 year 10 months between the two games, now the question is how big a difference will four
months make?

In my opinion, none the biggest change from ME1 to ME2 was the refinement of the combat system, this only needs to be tweaked for the third game, so I expect ME3 to be a great game! Better than ME2 well only time will tell .

By I enjoyed DA2, so I’m the minority on these forums. Just hated the wave after wave of mobs that did get a little annoying!

Modifié par KinjoHavic, 03 avril 2011 - 07:27 .

[AkiKishi]

KinjoHavic wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

btw I do think every game needs it's hardcore fans. They make all kinds of fan stuff, guids and mods that inrich the game and makes it even more interesting for the ' casual' fan. Also these hardcore fans can hype a game for better or for worse. The game isn't totally dependend on hardcore fans but I do think you can only have a great game (in status) with a solid hardcore fanbase.

Mass Effect launched November 20, 2007

Mass Effect 2 launched January 18, 2010

So two years two months give or take a day or two, not three years like some tend to believe.

Now if I were a betting man I would guess November 22nd as the launch of ME3 ( the 4 year anniversary of ME ), which means it will be 1 year 10 months between the two games, now the question is how big a difference will four
months make?

In my opinion, none the biggest change from ME1 to ME2 was the refinement of the combat system, this only needs to be tweaked for the third game, so I expect ME3 to be a great game! Better than ME2 well only time will tell .

By I enjoyed DA2, so I’m the minority on these forums. Just hated the wave after wave of mobs that did get a little annoying!

You ended ME2 maxed out. They will have to address that somehow. Hopefully not something dumb like getting killed and coming back to life.

[Horus Blackheart]

You ended ME2 maxed out. They will have to address that somehow. Hopefully not something dumb like getting killed and coming back to life.. No no next it will be long lost identical twin sheploo with memory loss and post tromatic stress and dady issues

[i love lamp x3]

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

you're not looking at this right...

me to me2 was november of 2007 to the end of 2009. mass effect 2 was ready for release in october 2009 but ea shelved it until january so it wouldn't compete with dragon age origins in holiday sales. so in all likelihood me3 has been going full steam since november 2009 and it'll be out in november 2011. 

so really the dev times have been roughly the same. plus christina norman (lead gameplay designer) has said they're looking to add back some rpg features people missed. but the point is, a full 2 years in between each release, and look at how incredibly polished bioware made me2 in those 2 years. 

as for bioware being slaves to the hardcore market, i think it's true to a point. but da2 sales are similar to da:o for the first 3 weeks, but it took them a quarter of the time to make. EA have been pushing bioware too hard, and i think we'll see them back off a bit since instead of expanding the audience, da2 is remaining the same. EA wanted to establish da as a full blown series as quickly as possible. i don't think we'll see da3 until 2013 but i think we'll get an expansion in the interim. 

people dont seem to understand that bioware had to force this out the door in a year and what they accomplished was incredible. a fully voiced protagonist that develops a personality based on your dialogue choices? hawke's battle cries and cutscene dialogues change. no one has ever done that before. furthermore, a fully voiced pc with at least 3 completely different sentences per dialogue choice is a TON of dialogue. and there's 2 of them (guy or girl hawke). the combat system has been totally redone. spells and talents have been refined. the companions, while there dialogue is limited compared to da:o, were very well thought out and interesting. the graphics have improved significantly. sure, there are reused assets. kirkwall gets boring. the side quests get boring. if they had more time, maybe some of that stuff would've been more fleshed out. i'm sure da3 will correct every mistake. and lastly, i'm so tired of you snotty players who hate change and wanted a rehash of da:o. bioware is a company built around evolution and they want a challenge themselves and create games that they would love. you can't expect them to do the same thing over and over. either get on board or go find some other company to harass. if you think creating and recreating the same D&D style game a hundred times over is the way to go, become a game designer and do it yourself.

[Cybermortis]

i love lamp x3 wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

you're not looking at this right...

me to me2 was november of 2007 to the end of 2009. mass effect 2 was ready for release in october 2009 but ea shelved it until january so it wouldn't compete with dragon age origins in holiday sales. so in all likelihood me3 has been going full steam since november 2009 and it'll be out in november 2011. 

so really the dev times have been roughly the same. plus christina norman (lead gameplay designer) has said they're looking to add back some rpg features people missed. but the point is, a full 2 years in between each release, and look at how incredibly polished bioware made me2 in those 2 years. 

as for bioware being slaves to the hardcore market, i think it's true to a point. but da2 sales are similar to da:o for the first 3 weeks, but it took them a quarter of the time to make. EA have been pushing bioware too hard, and i think we'll see them back off a bit since instead of expanding the audience, da2 is remaining the same. EA wanted to establish da as a full blown series as quickly as possible. i don't think we'll see da3 until 2013 but i think we'll get an expansion in the interim. 

people dont seem to understand that bioware had to force this out the door in a year and what they accomplished was incredible. a fully voiced protagonist that develops a personality based on your dialogue choices? hawke's battle cries and cutscene dialogues change. no one has ever done that before. furthermore, a fully voiced pc with at least 3 completely different sentences per dialogue choice is a TON of dialogue. and there's 2 of them (guy or girl hawke). the combat system has been totally redone. spells and talents have been refined. the companions, while there dialogue is limited compared to da:o, were very well thought out and interesting. the graphics have improved significantly. sure, there are reused assets. kirkwall gets boring. the side quests get boring. if they had more time, maybe some of that stuff would've been more fleshed out. i'm sure da3 will correct every mistake. and lastly, i'm so tired of you snotty players who hate change and wanted a rehash of da:o. bioware is a company built around evolution and they want a challenge themselves and create games that they would love. you can't expect them to do the same thing over and over. either get on board or go find some other company to harass. if you think creating and recreating the same D&D style game a hundred times over is the way to go, become a game designer and do it yourself.

My impression is that apart from a small number of people, the majority opinion is that DA2 may not be the best game BW has produced - in fact the over all user scores show it as the worst in recent memory - but that if anyone but Bioware had tried to produce anything similar in the same amount of time it would have been a LOT worse.

That said I'm a customer, if I buy something I want to buy something that at least feels complete and not half-done. As someone who paid for the game I do not care about how much time they have put into making the game, or about the pressures they were under at the time. I may be able to see and understand these things. But my interest as a customer is the quality of the product I buy, not excuses as to why it isn't better.

If I paid for a steak and what I get is a lump of raw flesh I am not going to accept that the Chief didn't have the time to cook it. As a customer that is not my problem.

Modifié par Cybermortis, 03 avril 2011 - 09:39 .

[sheppard7]

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

That's what is scary about ME3.

[Dragoonlordz]

Cybermortis wrote...

If I paid for a steak and what I get is a lump of raw flesh I am not going to accept that the Chief didn't have the time to cook it. As a customer that is not my problem.

Loved that bit, spot on imho. If they want my money they need to invest however much time and money is needed in making something I want to buy. No excuses.

[ozenglish]

sheppard7 wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

That's what is scary about ME3.

I disagree. They have the engine refined, they probably started working on ME3, while ME2 was in finalizing. I am sure that it takes less people to tweak a game than it does to create it.

[MrTijger]

ozenglish wrote...

I disagree. They have the engine refined, they probably started working on ME3, while ME2 was in finalizing. I am sure that it takes less people to tweak a game than it does to create it.

Especially given they are using a well known and understood game engine. But lets not burst the bubble of the 'sky is falling' crowd.

[_Aine_]

I think bad DLC does as much for ruining the rep of a game for *current* customers as a poorly implemented expansion does to expand the market reach. The difference is simply scope.

i always considered ME and DA two different markets really. They have a different flavour in terms of feel. ME was more sterile ( which fit completely with the futuristic vibe) and DA was more dirty, aged etc which was fitting with it's setting. Da2 kind of birthed DA in a ME universe and was a love-child of the two.

Bread analogy: worked pretty well, though I would trade in croissants for white bread. White bread is more mass markety. It is difficult to make a real fantastic croissant. The Witcher2 may be the croissant though. Bioware went from a fantastic organic artisan sour dough to ....say, a Dempster's mass produced. (Not quite Wonderbread, though.)

And, Dempster's is great toasted, typical sandwich. But not the same niche quality as the organic artisan sour dough.

This thread needs more analogies

Modifié par shantisands, 03 avril 2011 - 10:01 .

[Dragoonlordz]

shantisands wrote...

And, Dempster's is great toasted, typical sandwich. But not the same niche quality as the organic artisan sour dough.

This thread needs more analogies

I wonder if DA2 would be improved if I stuck it in the toaster or grill...

[Cybermortis]

They did start work on ME3 even before ME2 was released, and it seems likely that some elements such as the story and plot were being developed at the same time as ME2 since they always intended to end the story with a third game and my impressions from ME2 (especially parts that you only get if you import a saved game from ME) would lead me to conclude that they knew exactly where the majority of the story was or had to go.

That should have given them more time to polish the final game.

Also note that there still doesn't seem to be a fixed release date for ME3 just yet - or at least none that I've seem - other than 'sometime towards the end of 2011'. This might be deliberate, and as they showed with ME2 they seem to be quite happy to hold off release of the ME games for a few months if they feel they have to.

There is a LOT expected of ME3, and no one - even EA - has any vested interest in releasing it until or unless they are happy it can live up to the expectations.

Not that they are going to avoid howls of complaints from some people no matter what they have done.

[Cybermortis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

shantisands wrote...

And, Dempster's is great toasted, typical sandwich. But not the same niche quality as the organic artisan sour dough.

This thread needs more analogies

I wonder if DA2 would be improved if I stuck it in the toaster or grill...

Maybe the 'toast' button is the fabled 'Awesome-button' we've all been looking for? Although my copy seems to have hidden it under the heading 'exit game'.

[MrTijger]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I wonder if DA2 would be improved if I stuck it in the toaster or grill...

Well, try it and report back?

[Dr.Goodspeed]

I love DA2(so far) and I also loved Jade Empire. The bugs and how they are handled are my main concern. It's absolutely ridiculous and outrageous how BioWare treats their customers in that regard.

We get zero information, no ETA and no table of contents for the upcoming patch. Someone described it very well in another thread.

Imagine you buy something and after a few days you notice it's broken. So naturally you bring it to whoever sold you the item and/or produced it to have it repaired or get a refund/replacement. Now imagine they tell you bluntly to the face:"Listen Sir, there will be neither a working replacement, nor will there be a refund. We will repair your item eventually. However, we won't tell you what's wrong with it, we won't tell you what repairs we're conducting and we also won't tell you how long it will take. Sometime between tomorrow and infinity we will give you a call and you can use your item the way it's supposed to work. That's all you are going to hear from us on that matter. Have a nice day and goodbye."

How would you react? Would you ever buy something from that company again?

It's really ridiculous when you think of it. What's even more ridiculous though is that we as gamers and customers are almost forced to bear with it. It's not like we can just buy the same product from a different company. However, if it actually was possible, that's the first thing I'd do after being treated like this as a customer.

[MrTijger]

Dr.Goodspeed wrote...

We get zero information, no ETA and no table of contents for the upcoming patch. Someone described it very well in another thread.

Actually, information was given and also it was explained why they couldnt give a timetable. The information was that a patch is ready for quite a few issues, over a 100 I believe, and that the patch is currently undergoing certification by Sony and Microsoft and that they will release the patch as soon as that process is done but that they have not been given a timetable for it by the above parties.

[Zjarcal]

simfamSP wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

What Dragon Age 2 failed at, I can guarantee you ME3 will save Bioware's arse...

I am worried for ME. They have a short development time too. Look at ME and ME2 2007-10 this is 2010-11 :-/ 

Eh, that's late 2007 to early 2010, or more specifically, November 2007 - January 2010... 2 years and two months.

The latter is January 2010 to November 2011, 1 year and 10 months.

It's only a four month difference, not a huge one.

[Dr.Goodspeed]

MrTijger wrote...

Dr.Goodspeed wrote...

We get zero information, no ETA and no table of contents for the upcoming patch. Someone described it very well in another thread.

Actually, information was given and also it was explained why they couldnt give a timetable. The information was that a patch is ready for quite a few issues, over a 100 I believe, and that the patch is currently undergoing certification by Sony and Microsoft and that they will release the patch as soon as that process is done but that they have not been given a timetable for it by the above parties.

Which roughly equals zero information... We already knew that a patch was coming eventually. We still don't know what it will contain and most importantly, we still don't know when it will come out. It's not like BioWare is in this business since yesterday, so they could at least take an educated guess as to how long such a certification process usually takes. We also don't know if PC users have to wait for Sony/Microsoft certification or just for EA certification.

[aftohsix]

 Jade Empire was a immensely fun game.

[Rockpopple]

The "hardcore market" is failing, hard. They're ruining everything. The reason why we don't get good comic book these days? The "hardcore market", afraid of change. Just one example. I could go on..

[Statulos]

Rockpopple wrote...

The "hardcore market" is failing, hard. They're ruining everything. The reason why we don't get good comic book these days? The "hardcore market", afraid of change. Just one example. I could go on..

What kind of comic do you read? If you mean Marvel and stuff like that, you're missing a gazillon things.

Everything? Dude, I cannot stand dumbed down click **** RTS like Starcraft. That's why I play stuff such as Europa Universalis or Hearts of Iron. Same goes for music: the more record labels support crap recorded in the mall such as In Flames, the more I like bands that play in the lines of Incantation.

At any rate, the problem with Bioware now is that they are turning to this "one size fits all" and it simply does not work:
ME is ME and DA is DA; or at least both should be separate entities.