137 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

I enjoyed it. For a small piece of DLC I thought the outcome was monumental and did a huge amount to develop Shepard as a character and argueably advanced the plot as much as ME2. The gameplay was as good or better as anything we have seen so far. I don't understand the criticism at all.

[shep82]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Turnip Root wrote...

I think Gamespot's review was the one that got me thinking it was going to be a huge letdown.

You'd think a 5.0 for anything Bioware related would be an umitigated disaster but I ended up loving it. Bioware could've screwed up by making Hackett's character feel tacked on just as fan service but the Arrival DLC actually further developed his character.

The scenery at the end when you're about to collide with the Mass Relay was incredibly intense.

Only complaint I have is the lack of enemy variety.

I've said this before: what you think of Arrival depends on what you expect from Bioware, and what you value in Bioware's games. I'm not saying that those who enjoyed Arrival are wrong, but neither are those who thought it was vastly disappointing. It all depends on what you want from the game.

Compared to Overlord and LotSB, the development of Hackett in Arrival was pretty bare-bones. If your final conversation with him had been a "few wheels" deeper or longer, and had gone into what kind of trial you could expect, or what your options were, or what-have-you, I would have been much happier. As it was, I felt like I learned almost nothing.

Your scientist here was also much less developed and interesting than the Overlord scientist or the rogue Spectre in LotSB, and the "illusion of choice" was far less. Also, a number of people felt that the hype and advertising around the DLC implied you would be making a choice, instead of simply witnessing an event you had no impact on the result of. Finally, squad mates and side characters are a big part of what a lot of people enjoy about Mass Effect, and I think their complete absence (save for Hackett) left a significant gulf for some.

If none of this bothers you, then hurrah! It doesn't mean you're less of a fan, or more of a fan, just that you expect different things. I said at the time I finished Arrival that I would pay another $7 to "unplay it," and while I've softened a bit since then, I'd still probably have preferred to just see a cutscene or play a mini-flashback (like the Normandy destruction scene in ME2) than the full DLC. If your mileage varies, then I'm legitimately happy for you.

Actually you're incorrect. Those points you made are simply opinions not fact. I don't agree with any of that and hence loved arrival.

[arc00ta]

I enjoyed it a lot. It was a good addition, even if it added to the dozens of reasons for poor Shepard getting burned at the stake after he/she saves the galaxy for the 3rd time. (Personally, I was quite satisfied with the results, I hate Batarians).

On a side note, I thought the gameplay was improved over LotSB, I like the helpless moments, it adds to the feel of the world instead of the mind-numbing hordes of cannon fodder we usually get.

[77Pat]

I enjoyed the DLC, but I would have like to have the choice mattered. Not saving everyone, but getting a message out so that some people (maybe the top members of the colony) would be able to be saved. They would still be upset for destroying the relay, but maybe understand.

I know they do not like to have consequences since not everyone plays the DLC, but they probably could have had an early decision (i.e. before/during the trial) where you make a decision with what you want to have happened.

[IamSithari]

The reapers want shepard because he's an unstoppable beast, I mean think about if they had shepards consciousness in a reaper body by god they'd rape the galaxy everytime. Sovereign, Harbringer, and Shepard.

[shep82]

People just like to **** and moan and they tend to be way more vocal than those that like something. Check the Yahoo boards anytime a transformers movie is released.

[hawat333]

The only real issues with it were the length, which is a joke at best for the price and the complete lack of decisions. Otherwise, it was a decent DLC.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I think it's clear that, at the very least, Arrival was slightly less well-recieved than the other two major ME2 expansions. As much as I hate numbers, I do sometimes find some use for Metacritic or Rotten-Tomatoes style aggregators, just as a way of absorbing the gestalt opinion of a bunch of gamers:

Metacritic scores for Overlord: 86 PC, 81 XBox. LotSB: 86 PC, 87 Xbox. Arrival: 64 PC, 67 Xbox, and 72 PS3.

To average out the separate platforms, that's a 83.5, 86.5, and 67.6. If Metacritic were high school, Arrival would be the D that kicks you off the honor roll. (Kasumi: Stolen Memories clocks in at a solid C, with a 71 on both Xbox and PC.)

If there's another aggregator site where you think the data is more relevant, please let me know... I just picked the first one I thought of. At the very least, we can say that the average reviewer feels that this is the weakest of the three DLCs. This may even out in the coming months, especially if a patch comes out that fixes some of the PC version's bugs. While we can't (and shouldn't) conclusively say that Arrival is bad, we can say that people seem to have enjoyed it less than previous DLCs, on average.

And it might be interesting to try to understand why other people feel differently. After reading a lot of the positive reviews, I have a more positive opinion about Arrival - I still didn't enjoy it myself, but I have a great deal of respect for what it was trying to accomplish.

If people DO like Arrival less than Lair and Overlord why is that? And if we identify weaknesses, it doesn't mean that people who enjoy arrival are wrong, it just means they like different things. This doesn't have to be a black and white "war," with "fanboys" on one side and "whiners" on the other. Instead it can be an intriguing look into what players like about Mass Effect DLC, and what they don't like.

That said, I'll definitely admit that I was a bit emotional when initially trying to explain why some people don't like Arrival as much. I took some time off to rethink, and I wrote a much more reasoned review.  Essentially, some people like Arrival and some don't: neither opinion is incorrect.

We might also be able to learn something interesting by looking at Kasumi and Arrival together: they both clock in a full letter grade below the more popular expansions, but they have very different structures.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 05 avril 2011 - 12:33 .

[Almostfaceman]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

 This doesn't have to be a black and white "war," with "fanboys" on one side and "whiners" on the other. Instead it can be an intriguing look into what players like about Mass Effect DLC, and what they don't like.

Indeed, all discussions need to be like this.

[shep82]

hawat333 wrote...

The only real issues with it were the length, which is a joke at best for the price and the complete lack of decisions. Otherwise, it was a decent DLC.

See that's what I liked about it. Straight to the point with a no other choice scenerio.

[Markinator_123]

People's expectations were just way too high. I enjoyed the DLC for what it was worth.

[SalsaDMA]

Markinator_123 wrote...

People's expectations were just way too high. I enjoyed the DLC for what it was worth.

Considering the price, I expected at least a DLC of the same quality as overlord.

Overlord is a far far better DLC than Arrival was.

Even worse, there is literally no incentive to play through the DLC a second time, lest you do it on a new game just to get the research upgrades.

Overlord I felt could be played through multiple times, because you were actually there making decisions with your character and you could try out with different team-mates.

Shadowbroker you were there tying up the loose end with Liara, making choices related to her, trying out different team mates and you could affect the world through the 'funding missions'.

Arrival was just a glorified cutscene.

[Someone With Mass]

I think it was good. Had more valuable content than Overlord, at least.

And with it only costing 560 points, I knew it'd be less than LotSB. I saw it as a teaser for ME3, and that's exactly what I got.

[Bozorgmehr]

hawat333 wrote...

The only real issues with it were the length, which is a joke at best for the price and the complete lack of decisions. Otherwise, it was a decent DLC.

It's also very inviting to play with all classes coz Shep is on his/her own - a really cool way to compare all the classes and to find ways to be effective without the help of your squad. I'll definitely play it with all 6 classes (3 so far) - greatly improving its longevity.

Decisions made in dlc will not influence anything major in ME3 anyways - or did you expected otherwise?

[Malanek]

SalsaDMA wrote...
Overlord is a far far better DLC than Arrival was.

I didn't really consider Overlord all that good. The best piece of action was at the start in the battle shutting down the satelite uplink which was very good. But after that all the action was typical undynamic enemies up ahead, kill them. There was no squad mate voice acting or character development. There was hammerhead stuff if you like that but I consider that vehicle quite poorly designed. At the end you you are faced with an interesting decision but I suspect your choice won't have any real impact. If it turns out to the actual DLC will improve. The storyline in overlord was interesting, if simple, on it's own, but it didn't really feel part of the overall story. My biggest single issue with ME2 was the lack of focus on the overall plot. Arrival addressed that nicely. IMO Arrival was quite a bit better than Overlord.

[Jamesnew2]

LOTSB > ARRIVAL > OVERLORD...

[termokanden]

Jamesnew2 wrote...

LOTSB > ARRIVAL > OVERLORD...

I think so too. I had extremely low expectations for Arrival after reading about it and was a bit surprised. It has some problems, but I think people were expecting way too much.

I was actually thinking this almost had to happen. LotSB set the bar too high.

[shep82]

termokanden wrote...

Jamesnew2 wrote...

LOTSB > ARRIVAL > OVERLORD...

I think so too. I had extremely low expectations for Arrival after reading about it and was a bit surprised. It has some problems, but I think people were expecting way too much.

I was actually thinking this almost had to happen. LotSB set the bar too high.

Well I loved overlord but your right. LOTSB was their best and people just expected way too much.

[Malanek]

LotSB had a lot of humour. It was quite light, charming and fun. Arrival was dark, tragic and intense. It seems some people don't like that but I really liked the contrast.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Two sequences in Overlord won me over in a way that no sequences from arrival did: the dead Geth ship and the visual design of the final, solo area. Gorgeous and creepy.

I also liked the arc of finding out what the heck was going on in Overlord. I knew something was hinky, but not exactly what, and the final reveal was beyond anything I was expecting. (of course, the geiger-esque design of that final contraption didn't help. Still gives me the creeps.) The character of the scientist older brother was also just reprehensible, but it was illuminated so slowly that the horror dawned in a way that had great impact for me.

Some people have said they got similar feelings from Arrival, but I personally didn't. If anyone really liked a dramatic arc in Arrival I'd like to hear a more detailed explanation of what you saw in it, because I feel like I have to be missing something, here.

[Malanek]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Some people have said they got similar feelings from Arrival, but I personally didn't. If anyone really liked a dramatic arc in Arrival I'd like to hear a more detailed explanation of what you saw in it, because I feel like I have to be missing something, here.

The fact that you have to kill 300,000 Batarians, quite possibly plunging humanity into a war with them, to stop the imminent arrival of the reapers was not dramatic for you?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Malanek999 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Some people have said they got similar feelings from Arrival, but I personally didn't. If anyone really liked a dramatic arc in Arrival I'd like to hear a more detailed explanation of what you saw in it, because I feel like I have to be missing something, here.

The fact that you have to kill 300,000 Batarians, quite possibly plunging humanity into a war with them, to stop the imminent arrival of the reapers was not dramatic for you?

Not really, no.  The way it was handled, playing through it felt just as dramatic as reading your sentence up there does: I saw it, had a second or two thought of "oh, that seems unpleasant, I rather resent the universe for making me do that." And then, throughout the mission, nothing gave me any reason to hope or imagine there could be any other outcome. Nothign confronted me with the seriousness of the decision. It had the impact of reading a sentence, not of living through a thing.

I'm actually working on a rewrite of Arrival that I think would fix this problem for me, in particular, as sort of a weird kind of writing exercise. Basically, I wanted Shepard to have to talk about what she was doing with someone, to have to confront the reality of it. Then, at the end, I wanted her to be either visibly upset (or visibly triumphant, if she's a renegade), and talk to someone about it.

Your confrontation with the Scientist at the end of Overlord gives Shepard a chance to let her feelings about what has happened out, to express them, to react. I felt like Arrival had no such release, so the impact was one of frustration and annoyance rather than of being deeply moved by a sacrifice I had to make against my will.

Again, this is just my mileage. Yours may, of course, vary.

[Tazzmission]

Turnip Root wrote...

I'm really confused.  Did I play the same DLC as the critics did?  I just downloaded and played through Arrival on the PS3 and I was expecting a major dissapointment but what I got instead was a great new environment to explore, and some great new development of Admiral Hackett whose role I was sad to see reduced in Mass Effect 2.
That scene at the end where you confront Harbinger alone was worth the price.  Totally sent a chill down my spine and leaves me incredibly excited about what awaits Shepard in Mass Effect 3.

So from what I have read in the reviews the complaints seem to stem around the emphasis on action.  I don't see how that's a bad thing since I love third person cover shooters but even still I think the DLC deserves additional praise for actively encouraging you to avoid conflict as another challenge.

I guess their issue was that the cutscenes weren't oversaturated with dialogue but I think in this particular case, less is more and the plot left a strong impact on me.

So yeah, I don't know what it is that made other people feel let down about Arrival, but I didn't feel whatever it is they felt.  I loved it!

thank you! and  alot of people ( including myself) expected more but i still enjoyed it

[AdmiralCheez]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

[A bunch of stuff about Overlord that I completely agree with.]

Some people have said they got similar feelings from Arrival, but I personally didn't. If anyone really liked a dramatic arc in Arrival I'd like to hear a more detailed explanation of what you saw in it, because I feel like I have to be missing something, here.

Well, when you take apart Arrival's plot, it is pretty damn dramatic.

During a dangerous recon mission inside hostile batarian space, a deep-cover Alliance operative and her team discover an ageless, mysterious object on a lone asteroid.  Upon further investigation, the operative, Dr. Amanda Kenson, realizes that the artifact is of Reaper origin, and the strange pulses it is giving off are in response to the proximity of its creators.  It is, in effect, a countdown to the galaxy's ultimate destruction, and there is disturbingly little time left.

Kenson and her team resolve to do the only thing they can to slow the Reapers down: destroy the local mass relay.  Working quickly and desperately, they jury-rig the asteroid into a self-propelled cannonball that will launch itself into the heart of the relay, destroying the stabilization rings that protect its massive element zero core.  When the core detonates, it will annihilate the entire system, putting Kenson at her team at an enormous risk if they can't make it out in time and sentencing over 300,000 batarians to death (and countless more undocumented slaves).  But it is worth the cost.

However, as Kenson assembles the resources necessary to complete "the Project," the Reaper artifact begins to subtly warp her mind into a fanatical servant of its masters.  By the time anyone notices its effects, it is too late, and Kenson, now only a mockery of the brave and cunning woman she once was, allows herself to be captured by batarians so that the Project's failure will be blamed on them.

The problem is not in its story, but its presentation.  The player was never given enough reason to sympathize with the batarians, nor with Dr. Kenson.  Plot points were only mentioned in passing, never emphasized or explored.  Had there been just a little more dialogue, a few more journal entries or overheard conversations, it would have been more haunting and heartbreaking than Overlord, but as it is Arrival is simply underdone.

Not that I didn't enjoy it; it just had so much potential to be more than it was.