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[AshenEndymion]

The Angry One wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

Taking the city is not war on the rest of Thedas unless they were to
expand (or representatives of the rest of Thedas came in asking them to
leave, and the Arishok refused).  It would only be war upon Kirkwall.

Declaring war on Kirkwall is breaking the treaty.
Any nation in Thedas would have a legitimate reason to declare war on the Qun if this situation lasted.

True, but no nation has the balls to do such a thing.  Not over a single city-state in the Free Marches.  Orlais certainly wouldn't do anything.  Not after it could be inferred that the relic being lost is their fault (as it was stolen from them, not the Qunari directly).  Ferelden would likely do nothing as well.  The rest of the Free Marches might do something.  But not until diplomacy failed.  Which would give the Arishok a year or two to determine his plan.

The Arishok does recognize that the failing is his and not those under him.  As evident by his willingness to duel Hawke (if he respects Hawke or if Fenris is there) if Isabella doesn't return.  But that failing does not require the Arishok to do nothing unless it regards the book. Only that he is required to find the book before he returns to Par Vollen.  Taking the city is protecting the followers of the Qun within the city.  And protecting the followers of the Qun is a duty of the Arishok as directed by the Qun...

[The Angry One]

If the other nations sat on their hands while the Arishok camped on Kirkwall, that'd set a dangerous precident. The treaty might as well be toilet paper, the Qun can just take a city here and there as they please.

Remember the Divine was considering an Exalted March later for Kirkwall's problems, a Qunari occupation would set one off a lot sooner, and the Arishok's force would be completely flattened unless the Qun sends support and if it does, all out war.

[AshenEndymion]

The Qunari didn't ask for the truce. The agreed to it because the Qun did not demand any further territory. The rest of Thedas was essentially going bankrupt, and that is why they needed the truce. It is unlikely that the countries of Thedas would be so willing to risk such again.

But, it is also unlikely that the Qun would demand that the Arishok be defended if the might of Thedas struck him in Kirkwall. Mostly because the Qunari as a whole don't seem to care about anything that is going on outside of Par Vollen. At least not to the extent to do anything about it yet. And without such defense by the Qunari, it wouldn't exactly be war until the countries of Thedas attempted to retake to Par Vollen.

[frylock23]

1. You're an ant
2. You're a termite
3. You're a wasp
4. You're a bee
5. You're a naked mole rat


FIFY, Op.

[The Angry One]

I don't buy that "Har! We were invincible! But we withdrew because we felt like it/teh poor bas were dying/we didn't need the land anyway!" nonsense.
They started the war. Obviously they felt a need to expand. The Qun demands it after all. Given their performance in DA2, I just don't find that "barely scratched" line credible.

Regardless, no matter how belligerent or strong the mighty Qun is, no nation is going to want to go to war because a military leader who's been absent for 4 years suddenly decides he wants to smash heads. Since when is it the Arishok's "role" to decide the overall fate of the Qun anyway? He is just the "body", his is to follow the instructions of the "mind" and the "soul".

[Camenae]

Is it a coincidence that "bas" is "low" in French? - _- the Qunari language isn't similar to French, but I find the name by which they call the outsiders to be, hmmm, snarky on purpose? or by coincidence?

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

Is it a coincidence that "bas" is "low" in French? - _- the Qunari language isn't similar to French, but I find the name by which they call the outsiders to be, hmmm, snarky on purpose? or by coincidence?

Might not be.
In Qunari it means "thing" or "object".

[AshenEndymion]

I don't buy that "Har! We were invincible! But we withdrew because we felt like it/teh poor bas were dying/we didn't need the land anyway!" nonsense.
They started the war. Obviously they felt a need to expand. The Qun demands it after all. Given their performance in DA2, I just don't find that "barely scratched" line credible.

You don't have to believe it. That is your purgative. The codex claims that the Qunari stopped because they were lacking in manpower. Whether that is true or not is debatable, but 300 years later I'm quite certain they are not as "lacking" as they were when the treaty was signed. The Qunari may not be as invincible as they make themselves out to be, but given the performance of anyone not named "Hawke" or "Warden/Warden-Commander," I don't find it very credible that the Qunari would be thwarted if they did restart the war.

Since when is it the Arishok's "role" to decide the overall fate of the Qun anyway? He is just the "body", his is to follow the instructions of the "mind" and the "soul".

Since when is it the Arishok's "role" to sit and do nothing while the body is cut a thousand times (via the actions of the people of Kirkwall to the Qunari)? The body has reflex actions for a reason. Because the "mind" and "soul" cannot act fast enough.

Clearly it wasn't the "best" decision (out of all the possible options, I mean). But only because the Arishok is dead because of it. But if everyone is completely stupid for not making the best decision in a single instance, there wouldn't be anyone who could be considered smart in the world.

[The Angry One]

AshenEndemion wrote...

You don't have to believe it. That is your purgative. The codex claims that the Qunari stopped because they were lacking in manpower. Whether that is true or not is debatable, but 300 years later I'm quite certain they are not as "lacking" as they were when the treaty was signed. The Qunari may not be as invincible as they make themselves out to be, but given the performance of anyone not named "Hawke" or "Warden/Warden-Commander," I don't find it very credible that the Qunari would be thwarted if they did restart the war.

It's also a 300 year old account, enough time for myth and legend to come up around the event.
And while nobody in DA2 is particularily competent, the Arishok is still at the bottom, his rank stupidity makes Dougal Gavorn look like a tactical genius.

Since when is it the Arishok's "role" to sit and do nothing while the body is cut a thousand times (via the actions of the people of Kirkwall to the Qunari)? The body has reflex actions for a reason. Because the "mind" and "soul" cannot act fast enough.

Clearly it wasn't the "best" decision (out of all the possible options, I mean). But only because the Arishok is dead because of it. But if everyone is completely stupid for not making the best decision in a single instance, there wouldn't be anyone who could be considered smart in the world.

It wasn't a good decision at all.
Again, he could've left the city. The Qunari can survive without food and water for long periods so that isn't an issue. The Dalish are harassed because they're percieved as weak.
The Tal-Vashoth operate with impunity until Hawke deals with them, and then only because that dwarf wants you to to impress the Arishok.

[graavigala85]

Give me the horns and some wicked bodypaint and Im happy to serve the Qun

[Camenae]

Are the Qunari free to choose their life partners? With the way their society is set up I wouldn't be surprised if they did all arranged marriages for eugenics purposes.

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

Are the Qunari free to choose their life partners? With the way their society is set up I wouldn't be surprised if they did all arranged marriages for eugenics purposes.

I imagine so, if they even have marriage.

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Are the Qunari free to choose their life partners? With the way their society is set up I wouldn't be surprised if they did all arranged marriages for eugenics purposes.

I imagine so, if they even have marriage.

No families, no marriages. They are set in breeding "groups" and copulate when told to do so.

[Camenae]

Only when told to do so? That's no fun : /

[The Angry One]

In DA:O, Sten says that during officially sanctioned celebrations the public goes completely wild and uncontrolled, taking weeks to restore order.
Probably the perfect time for couples to sneak off, as it were.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 avril 2011 - 03:57 .

[TobiTobsen]

Camenae wrote...

Only when told to do so? That's no fun : /

Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included

Source: http://social.biowar...75&lf=8#3327161

[The Angry One]

Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included

I read that, and picture this.

[Camenae]

Mm that would still be a no to me then. No Qun for me...thanks... : /

[Hrodric]

Camenae wrote...

The Qunari are too materialistic. Take their sword and they can't go back. Take their book and they can't go back. If I ever fall in love with a Qunari but he wants to satisfy a demand of the Qun that is not mine, then I just take something of his, and then he can never leave. Of course that comes with a 90% chance of him going berserk, but hey what's life without a little risk?

^This... is why one has to sleep with one eye open AT ALL TIMES with you Chinese women, Camenae. ;-)

Modifié par Hrodric, 04 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[Arppis]

Camenae wrote...

Mm that would still be a no to me then. No Qun for me...thanks... : /

SUBMIT!

Whoa!! ...*cough* don't know what happened there...

Modifié par Arppis, 04 avril 2011 - 04:29 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

I don't buy that "Har! We were invincible! But we withdrew because we felt like it/teh poor bas were dying/we didn't need the land anyway!" nonsense.

It wasn't the bas. It was Qunari humans who were being slaughtered.

I don't think it's accurate to say that the Qunari surpassed Thedasian military so much and that the only reason they withdrew is to avoid civilian casualties. Evidently they were being pushed back. But I don't think it's unfeasible that the Qunari, realising that their converts were being massacred and that they are not in the best position righ now to protect them, decided that a truce would satisfy the demands of the Qun better.

Again, I feel like I should bring nuance. The Qunari are militarily a major power and I don't think that can be questioned. And to respond to previous post made yesterday. The main advantage of Thedas was mages. Not only are Qunari mages weaker than the other mages, for obvious reasons, but they also rarely used them, at least at the time (see Qunari invasion of Kirkwall codex, being one of the rare instances where mages were used). Without those mages, it was clear that the Qunari were wiping the floor with all of Thedas combined. With better tech and discipline.

I dont' feel that what we see in the game has no relevence to lore in terms of warfare and tactics, simply because Bioware always sucked at this.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[Camenae]

Arppis wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Mm that would still be a no to me then. No Qun for me...thanks... : /

SUBMIT!

Whoa!! ...*cough* don't know what happened there...

That reminds me, I do like Qunari dudes, they just seem so much...manlier than the average "bas" guy? :X I personally don't get the appeal of Seamus and that Seneschal Bran guy.  That hair...I didn't even like Fenris until he pushed me into the wall.  

But if I can only fraternize with them when I'm told to, then that doesn't do me much good does it?  Plus what if the Ben-what'sherface decides that I'm best suited for the role of a nun???  I'd go Tal-Valshoth over that.

Modifié par Camenae, 04 avril 2011 - 04:39 .

[Curlain]

The Angry One wrote...

Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included

I read that, and picture this.

You shall never enjoy sex ever again.  It is the will of the Qun!!

Submit and enjoy the certainty of never having fun that it graciously provides 

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

That reminds me, I do like Qunari dudes, they just seem so much...manlier than the average "bas" guy? :X I personally don't get the appeal of Seamus and that Seneschal Bran guy.  That hair...I didn't even like Fenris until he pushed me into the wall.  

But if I can only fraternize with them when I'm told to, then that doesn't do me much good does it?  Plus what if the Ben-what'sherface decides that I'm best suited for the role of a nun???  I'd go Tal-Valshoth over that.

Phft. There are times that Qunari make Seamus look positively macho, like when you tell the Arvaraad you're a mage.
"You are saarebas? BAS SAAREBAS? EEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKK!!!"

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...
Phft. There are times that Qunari make Seamus look positively macho, like when you tell the Arvaraad you're a mage.
"You are saarebas? BAS SAAREBAS? EEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKK!!!"

I found it weird that the Arishok is just unmoved by the fact that you're a mage, so is Sten. But that guy freaks out.

Again, seems like Bioware wanted to throw in as much combat as possible.