87 réponses à ce sujet

[MrJangles]

Lithuasil wrote...

MrJangles wrote...
Bring back the multiclassing that made soloing baldur's gate 2 a real possiblilty! Real Rpgs ftw!

I'd wager bringing in a proper combat system is going to solve more problems 

Meh, the combat isn't perfect but what made the best rpgs fun for me was the amount of variety you could give your char. Being able to cast a ton of buffs as a mage/fighter and then whip out dual longswords and go to town on your enemies was a lot more rewarding than just spamming mighty blow, whilrwind and charge... Maybe that's just me though... (yes I know I'm focussed on warrior, I like hitting stuff...)

[Lithuasil]

MrJangles wrote...
Meh, the combat isn't perfect but what made the best rpgs fun for me was the amount of variety you could give your char. Being able to cast a ton of buffs as a mage/fighter and then whip out dual longswords and go to town on your enemies was a lot more rewarding than just spamming mighty blow, whilrwind and charge... Maybe that's just me though... (yes I know I'm focussed on warrior, I like hitting stuff...)

I'd wager, warrior is actually the only class that can solo above casual.

What I mean is - all the gripes people have with the combat, and many of the more immersion breaking aspects of the gameplay, can be directly related back to having a combat system that focuses on stats, rather then playerskill.

[ColdEnd]

I had a difficult time with the Ancient Rock Wraith (ARW) too, by comparison to the rest of the mobs up to that point it's game changingly different.

The one thing to remember about the ARW is that, like ALL the bosses in DA2... it's main function is to consume your time and push the playtime of the game up in general. Stock up on healing potions, and be prepared to do alot of manual dodging and manuvering, almost as if this were not an RPG at all.

Recall back to your 8-bit Nintendo days a la Final Fight or Defender, and memorize the movements of the boss, then gradually wear down it's grossly exaggerated life-bar while moving out of the way of it's highly telegraphed moves. Once you have done this, and given up on any idea that DA2 is an RPG instead of it being more like 2011's version of Double Dragon... you will do fine on all future boss fights.

Indeed, if you think of it that way it will make it much easier for you when you run into A) maps that can't be navigated fully because you are not in them during the right quest quests hooks and quest NPCs for quests that have been removed that either do nothing in your menu or don't interact with your party C) party member character story arc quests that conflict with one another, in the same story-line.

[MrJangles]

AutumnGhost wrote...

adds aren't randomly spawning on top of you, which gives fights an arcade-y feel...

I will agree with you there, it's nice to have structure to a fight and make the boss do something to summon minions. I'm not a fan of never-ending supplies of enemies that randomly spawn in a room you just emptied...that has no door except the one you are right next to... 

[MrJangles]

Lithuasil wrote...

MrJangles wrote...
Meh, the combat isn't perfect but what made the best rpgs fun for me was the amount of variety you could give your char. Being able to cast a ton of buffs as a mage/fighter and then whip out dual longswords and go to town on your enemies was a lot more rewarding than just spamming mighty blow, whilrwind and charge... Maybe that's just me though... (yes I know I'm focussed on warrior, I like hitting stuff...)

I'd wager, warrior is actually the only class that can solo above casual.

What I mean is - all the gripes people have with the combat, and many of the more immersion breaking aspects of the gameplay, can be directly related back to having a combat system that focuses on stats, rather then playerskill.

That's because it is an rpg cunningly disguised as something else... The whole point of an rpg (besides playing a role) is to get your stats right to build a powerful char. It is woefully lacking compared to older rpgs but that's still the basis of this game.

Modifié par MrJangles, 03 avril 2011 - 12:42 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

High Dragon was easy. This was easy. Arishock was easy.

Maybe you're using basic equipment. Poisons and bombs also help.

[Hannibal218]

Ummm.... not to be a ****** but I beat it easily with a dual wield rogue... With the exception of the first time I got hit with the doomy pink spray of death before I figured out the safe zones I didn't even get worried.

[Lithuasil]

MrJangles wrote...
That's because it is an rpg cunningly disguised as something else... The whole point of an rpg (besides playing a role) is to get your stats right to build a powerful char. It is woefully lacking ccompared to older rpgs but that's still the basis of this game.

It's a game that can't decided whether it wants to have old school rpg combat, or proper combat. 
I have this discussion regularly, when joining a different  pnp table. Stats and numbers have as much to do with roleplaying, as destroying the environment has with driving a car. You can't go completely without, but it's in everybodies best interests to keep it to a minimum.

A character, that can, when there's a bandit threat, mobilize a warband, and maybe even lead it into battle, is powerful.

A character, that can kill all 137 bandits on his own, is breaking immersion.

[Mnemnosyne]

There was nothing difficult about this fight, but it was still the one fight I decided not to bother with. Why? The damn thing had too much HP. I sat there and fought it for about 10-15 minutes and got it down about 25% of it's health or so. I wasn't going to screw around with fighting it for damn near an hour.

I'm sure with the right party composition, spell selection, and strategy that could be shaved down a lot, but I wasn't going to change party setup just because they decided to give a boss about 4x as many HP as it should have had. Even the High Dragon seemed to die faster - although that might have been simply because that fight wasn't so boring.

[Icy Magebane]

Eh... some people enjoy playing as a character who can kill 137 bandits. Guess it's just a matter of taste. I don't like playing video games as a weakling.

In fact, when my whole party died fighting the dragon in the Deep Roads, and Hawke had to finish the battle on his own, that made victory all the sweeter.  He's the leader for a reason.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 03 avril 2011 - 12:51 .

[Lithuasil]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Eh... some people enjoy playing as a character who can kill 137 bandits. Guess it's just a matter of taste. I don't like playing video games as a weakling.

God of War and Devil May Cry would like to talk to you.   

Not saying that's bad mind you - I personally adore Dmc. But there's a difference between roleplaying, and piloting a superhero, and people keep confusing the two.

[Redneck1st]

caradoc2000 wrote...

ARW was fun.

I couldn't agree with you more I went through with Hawke<warrior> Isabella, Anders and varric and had no problems at all and I was playing through on hard. Don't think I would try it on nightmare though since playing through on hard was bad enough.

[Mnemnosyne]

Redneck1st wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

ARW was fun.

I couldn't agree with you more I went through with Hawke<warrior> Isabella, Anders and varric and had no problems at all and I was playing through on hard. Don't think I would try it on nightmare though since playing through on hard was bad enough.

The difference between Hard and Nightmare seems to be multiplying the HP bar by 3 or so, from my experience.  Hence my complaints about the ridiculous HP (I should note that I was playing on Nightmare, of course).

[TheBlackBaron]

I liked the ARW battle, and yes, I had one TPK and was forced to redo it the first time around. That said, considering it's basically ripped straight from WoW and very different from the rest of the game's combat I can see why some would find it annoying.

[PantheraOnca]

Lithuasil wrote...
 But there's a difference between roleplaying, and piloting a superhero, and people keep confusing the two.

Unless whoever you're roleplaying happens to be a superhero. Which Hawke and the Warden essentially are.

[Red Panda]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

sth128 wrote...

If you're frustrated with any particular fights in this game, it's because you're doing it wrong.

Well, maybe except the high dragon fight, that's kind of unfair, especially the heat-seeking fireballs, which should be impossible due to itself being a heat source and would no doubt overwhelm its internal infrared guidance system.

But I just assume that dragon knows magic.

After killing dragonlings, just run in a big giant circle. 

Invest in flame warding runes!

[Lithuasil]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
 But there's a difference between roleplaying, and piloting a superhero, and people keep confusing the two.

Unless whoever you're roleplaying happens to be a superhero. Which Hawke and the Warden essentially are.

Hawke isn't, and there wasn't much roleplaying going on in DA:o, after the origin missions ended (not on the screen, anyway)

[Beerfish]

You do not need to kite at all against that beast on easy or normal. You have to be very alert to use healing potions and you have to make sure you run behind the columns when it does it's mass effect like laser attack.

[AutumnGhost]

I decided to give my current setup one last try before resorting to an earlier save. Collecting my breath and my cool, I decided to commit completely to a different method of playing the than the game has allowed to to previously get away with (by different method, I mean focused).

It seems the hardest thing for me was the annoyance factor of him constantly moving around forcing me to move my entire party the instant I had them repositioned, which drained my desire to commit fully to micromanaging every aspect of the battle, and again, adding the glitches I suffered on my second and third attempt (Aveline has glitched out a few other times becoming unresponsive). But aside from these, he is rather easy, albeit a pain in the ass for causing such a lengthy battle.

I beat him, only losing Isabela, but whatever, I considered her mostly deadweight for the fight because I did not feel like constantly moving her around ARW to keep her safe.

Modifié par AutumnGhost, 03 avril 2011 - 01:30 .

[Icy Magebane]

Lithuasil wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
 But there's a difference between roleplaying, and piloting a superhero, and people keep confusing the two.

Unless whoever you're roleplaying happens to be a superhero. Which Hawke and the Warden essentially are.

Hawke isn't, and there wasn't much roleplaying going on in DA:o, after the origin missions ended (not on the screen, anyway)

Well, Hawke is the destined "Champion"... even Flemeth noticed he was no ordinary man.  But aside from that, I thought roleplaying referred to things like taking on another persona or using abilities based on class (like warrior, mage, rogue).  If your "role" happens to also be "powerful hero," I don't see that as taking away from your ability to rp.  In most video games, the protagonist tends to be more powerful than his or her allies, dating all the way back to Shining Force.  I don't see how that's a bad thing... I mean yeah, it's cool to have limitations, like warriors not being able to use magic, but playing as a weak hero is frustrating to me.  You have to be able to do something better than others, or else, why would anybody listen to you?  These are just opinions though... take what you will from it.

Also, DMC is awesome...

On topic:  Congrats to the OP for pulling off a victory... I'm glad you stuck with your current party.  IMO, it's more fun to work around the problems that arise from party composition than redo anything.  Nice job.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 03 avril 2011 - 01:46 .

[Lithuasil]

Icy Magebane wrote...
Well, Hawke is the destined "Champion"... even Flemeth noticed he was no ordinary man.  But aside from that, I thought roleplaying referred to things like taking on another persona or using abilities based on class (like warrior, mage, rogue).  If your "role" happens to also be "powerful hero," I don't see that as taking away from your ability to rp.  In most video games, the protagonist tends to be more powerful than his or her allies, dating all the way back to Shining Force.  I don't see how that's a bad thing... I mean yeah, it's cool to have limitations, like warriors not being able to use magic, but playing as a weak hero is frustrating to me.  You have to be able to do something better than others, or else, why would anybody listen to you?  These are just opinions though... take what you will from it.

And yet, Hawke, even with the power of quickload, does not have automatic success enabled. Roleplaying is about playing a role, yes. But it gets more rewarding, when said role happens to be within the spectrum of possible, or even relateable. That doesn't mean playing as joe average shopkeeper. But, if you will, playing as Bruce Wayne (i.e an extraordinary human) is much, much more rewarding then playing as clark kent (i.e an allfixing omnipotent plot device, thinly disguised as a humanoid). The More powerful you are, the less you are part of the world, and the more the world is no longer immersive, but degraded to being a toy box.
Speaking from personal (star wars) PnP experience - it's much more rewarding to be a 15 year old rogue Padawan, on the run from the order, and succeeding in getting rid of those send to drag you back, then it is to play an unstoppable, nigh immortal Sith and defeating a few dozen Jedi. One victory is achieved by cunning and intelligence, the other is achieved by dice. And an Rpg should try to aim for the first, rather then the latter, imho.

[Froswald]

I absolutely love the rock wraith fight. I've shrieked like a little girl when he starts steaming towards Anders many a time, but I will admit his gravity well ability gets slightly annoying when used frequently. Otherwise I had no significant problems, never tried on Nightmare though.

[AutumnGhost]

Filament wrote...

Random spawns kind of make sense in this case, since the profanes are like spirits which cover themselves in rocks... and what are you surrounded by? Rocks.

Right, I wouldn't consider those random spawns. They make sense.

[Psycoman2]

Anytime you play an rpg on hard or harder you have accept that you may have to reload an earlier save to better prepare yourself for a chapter end boss. If you cant accept that, then you have no business playing it at that difficulty