323 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasBlaine]

What makes Hawke important enough to develop even one, let alone two games about?

After setting off the war, however it happens, Hawke really doesn't have any logical relevance to Thedas as a whole. The most important thing he does in the game is to keep Anders around in time to nuke the Chantry, at which point he's just another skilled fighter/apostate with a bit of money to his name and a reputation, either hated or respected by the Templars of Kirkwall.

Whereas the Warden is, you guessed it, a Grey Warden, and thus at least moderately essential to the safety of the people besides being the hero of Ferelden, Hawke is a shortly formulated borderline retard with nothing but a few bets placed in the coming war.

Desipte this, Bioware/EA advertises HAWKE as the ultimate hero and has decided that he's the one they want to build future games on, no justification whatsoever, seemingly because they expected the players to share their enthusiasm with him.

My biggest problem is exactly that, Hawke is treated as the Messiah of Thedas by Laidlaw, Bioware, and almost every major character in the game, while the only event in DA2 with any real importance to the overall state of the world -the start of the mage/templar war- had almost nothing to do with him, and would quite likely have unfolded whether he was there or not.

Did I miss something, or is this just weird and confusing, besides a bit unfair?

Edit: Can't believe I have to state this outright. This is NOT a hate-thread. This is a discussion, the next self-righteous bigot who implies otherwise gets reported. (You know I can't do that, so please just stop
Edit 2: And stop comparing the Warden and Hawke, I just made a point of the difference in hype margin, nothing more. Hawke is the focus of this thread.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 05 avril 2011 - 08:54 .

[Loc'n'lol]

You're seeing things that are not there. No one from EA/Bioware said Hawke would be the protagonist of any game after DA2.
But don't worry, the warden won't return either, so you can keep raging.

[Mugnir]

I agree with your assessment on Hawke's importance to the story, namely none. I don't think anyone is going to bank on Hawke being back in a future DA game other than a cameo.

[neppakyo]

Mugnir wrote...

I agree with your assessment on Hawke's importance to the story, namely none. I don't think anyone is going to bank on Hawke being back in a future DA game other than a cameo.

..even a cameo is pushing it, unless its him/her dead in a ditch.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

ThomasBlaine wrote...


What makes Hawke important enough to develop even one, let alone two games about?

After setting off the war, however it happens, Hawke really doesn't have any logical relevance to Thedas as a whole. The most important thing he does in the game is to keep Anders around in time to nuke the Chantry, at which point he's just another skilled fighter/apostate with a bit of money to his name and a reputation, either hated or respected by the Templars of Kirkwall.

Whereas the Warden is, you guessed it, a Grey Warden, and thus at least moderately essential to the safety of the people besides being the hero of Ferelden, Hawke is a shortly formulated borderline retard with nothing but a few bets placed in the coming war.

Desipte this, Bioware/EA advertises HAWKE as the ultimate hero and has decided that he's the one they want to build future games on, no justification whatsoever, seemingly because they expected the players to share their enthusiasm with him.

My biggest problem is exactly that, Hawke is treated as the Messiah of Thedas by Laidlaw, Bioware, and almost every major character in the game, while the only event in DA2 with any real importance to the overall state of the world -the start of the mage/templar war- had almost nothing to do with him, and would quite likely have unfolded whether he was there or not.

Did I miss something, or is this just weird and confusing, besides a bit unfair?

I agree. This game didn't reall do a good job at demonstrating the necessity of Hawke. In the end, he is just an ordinary man with good fighting skills. Any other person could have been in his shoes and it wouldn't matter.

To top it all off, the framed narrative thing they were hyping about so much ultimately didn't mean anything. Varric only embellishes the story at the beginning  of the game and during Varric's OPTIONAL companion quest in Act 2. Not to mention that the way he tells the story doesn't even keep me interested. For someone who is renowned for storytelling, this is awfully strange.

[fchopin]

neppakyo wrote...

..even a cameo is pushing it, unless its him/her dead in a ditch.

Hey, don't kill my Hawke yet give it another few weeks as i am still playing the game.

[ThomasBlaine]

Laidlaw explicitly stated Hawke to be the most important figure in Thedas's history. What I'm saying is that I don't see it.
All right if I took that wrong about DA3, but my point still stands.
I'm not raging. Argue sensibly or get the hell off my thread.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[LobselVith8]

I would say that Anders would be more appropriate to give the title of "most important figure in Thedas" because of what happens. Hawke isn't really given any chance to make a significant impact that would change Thedas as a whole.

[ThomasBlaine]

...yes, hence my confusion.

[fchopin]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

 Argue sensibly or get the hell off my thread.

I don't know if that was meant for me but...
 
Hawke is important as that is who Bioware chose to be important in DA2.
 
As Bioware said Hawke is a normal person with no special abilities but still managed to become champion of Kirkwall by his or her determination to succeed.

[erynnar]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

You're seeing things that are not there. No one from EA/Bioware said Hawke would be the protagonist of any game after DA2.
But don't worry, the warden won't return either, so you can keep raging.

I don't see the OP as raging, rather as asking the same confused question I did. I keep reading threads talking about how much Hawke influences the world around her/him and how much impact she/he has on the the whole story. I never got that from playing, so I kept wondering if I was honestly missing something. 

As to BioWare and what they said, I can't say, I haven't seen or read many interviews tbh.

[ThomasBlaine]

fchopin wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

 Argue sensibly or get the hell off my thread.

I don't know if that was meant for me but...

Not at all, just the presumptious gentleman up top who implied that this is a rage-thread.
Otherwise I agree with you completely, but Hawke's simple status as Kirkwall Elite - y'know, untill he runs off in the epilogue- just doesn't add up with how he is advertised or treated, meta by the developers or in-game by the other characters.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 02:18 .

[N VEE TZAR]

i have a question when trying to registar game it says its not valid why

[erynnar]

And my confusion too...to be filed under "things that make you go..hm."

[Dannybare]

ThomasBlaine wrote...


What makes Hawke important enough to develop even one, let alone two games about?

After setting off the war, however it happens, Hawke really doesn't have any logical relevance to Thedas as a whole. The most important thing he does in the game is to keep Anders around in time to nuke the Chantry, at which point he's just another skilled fighter/apostate with a bit of money to his name and a reputation, either hated or respected by the Templars of Kirkwall.

Whereas the Warden is, you guessed it, a Grey Warden, and thus at least moderately essential to the safety of the people besides being the hero of Ferelden, Hawke is a shortly formulated borderline retard with nothing but a few bets placed in the coming war.

Desipte this, Bioware/EA advertises HAWKE as the ultimate hero and has decided that he's the one they want to build future games on, no justification whatsoever, seemingly because they expected the players to share their enthusiasm with him.

My biggest problem is exactly that, Hawke is treated as the Messiah of Thedas by Laidlaw, Bioware, and almost every major character in the game, while the only event in DA2 with any real importance to the overall state of the world -the start of the mage/templar war- had almost nothing to do with him, and would quite likely have unfolded whether he was there or not.

Did I miss something, or is this just weird and confusing, besides a bit unfair?

Hawke is a Catalyst, and I think the mage/templar war wouldn't have started without Hawke.
Without Hawke Betrand wouldn't have had the map of the deep roads or the money to start the expidition, so the idol Betrand sold wouldn't have made it into the hand of Meridith making her insane and seeing Blood mages around every corner. Also without Hawke would someone have killed the Arishok and ended the Quanri invasion which could result in Kirkwall being massacred/enslaved.

[DoNotIngest]

...And what makes the Warden any different? They're an unknown who is lucky enough to get through the joining, and then travel around doing favors for different races/organizations, quite similarly to how Hawke does his jobs, rescues, demon/dragon hunting, etc. You could say the Warden was important because they saved Thedas from the Blight and killed a big dragon; However, Alistair or even Loghain could very well be the ones to do the job for you, so what makes you so special? You have a few notches in your belt and some stories you can begin with "No ****, there I was... It was THIS big!", but aside from that, they're not that different.

Besides, if Hawke hadn't accompanied Anders to the Chantry, he probably would have been slaughtered, averting the whole fiasco; Unless somebody thinks, what, twenty Templar mage-hunters would have been put down by a single possessed apostate in their planned ambush?

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 03 avril 2011 - 02:21 .

[ThomasBlaine]

N VEE TZAR wrote...

i have a question when trying to registar game it says its not valid why

Maybe you bought it pre-owned, or someone used the code before you? Please check the FAQ section rather than using this thread.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 02:21 .

[Serpieri Nei]

fchopin wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

..even a cameo is pushing it, unless its him/her dead in a ditch.

Hey, don't kill my Hawke yet give it another few weeks as i am still playing the game.

A Quick death is better then a slow death.

[fchopin]

There are many loop holes in the plot and wish that Bioware does a patch to fix some of the plot holes so it makes more sense.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Dannybare wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...


What makes Hawke important enough to develop even one, let alone two games about?

After setting off the war, however it happens, Hawke really doesn't have any logical relevance to Thedas as a whole. The most important thing he does in the game is to keep Anders around in time to nuke the Chantry, at which point he's just another skilled fighter/apostate with a bit of money to his name and a reputation, either hated or respected by the Templars of Kirkwall.

Whereas the Warden is, you guessed it, a Grey Warden, and thus at least moderately essential to the safety of the people besides being the hero of Ferelden, Hawke is a shortly formulated borderline retard with nothing but a few bets placed in the coming war.

Desipte this, Bioware/EA advertises HAWKE as the ultimate hero and has decided that he's the one they want to build future games on, no justification whatsoever, seemingly because they expected the players to share their enthusiasm with him.

My biggest problem is exactly that, Hawke is treated as the Messiah of Thedas by Laidlaw, Bioware, and almost every major character in the game, while the only event in DA2 with any real importance to the overall state of the world -the start of the mage/templar war- had almost nothing to do with him, and would quite likely have unfolded whether he was there or not.

Did I miss something, or is this just weird and confusing, besides a bit unfair?

Hawke is a Catalyst, and I think the mage/templar war wouldn't have started without Hawke.
Without Hawke Betrand wouldn't have had the map of the deep roads or the money to start the expidition, so the idol Betrand sold wouldn't have made it into the hand of Meridith making her insane and seeing Blood mages around every corner. Also without Hawke would someone have killed the Arishok and ended the Quanri invasion which could result in Kirkwall being massacred/enslaved.

This isn't true. Varric was the one who knew about Anders. He could have just as easily gotten someone else to help him convince Anders to give them maps. As for the Arishok, the templars hadn't entered the battle yet, but if they had, the Quanari would've been dealt with. Anders would have blown up the Chantry regardess and mages and templars would be fighting.

[ThomasBlaine]

DoNotIngest wrote...

...And what makes the Warden any different? They're an unknown who is lucky enough to get through the joining, and then travel around doing favors for different races/organizations, quite similarly to how Hawke does his jobs, rescues, demon/dragon hunting, etc. You could say the Warden was important because they saved Thedas from the Blight and killed a big dragon; However, Alistair or even Loghain could very well be the ones to do the job for you, so what makes you so special? You have a few notches in your belt and some stories you can begin with "No ****, there I was... It was THIS big!", but aside from that, they're not that different.

Besides, if Hawke hadn't accompanied Anders to the Chantry, he probably would have been slaughtered, averting the whole fiasco; Unless somebody thinks, what, twenty Templar mage-hunters would have been put down by a single possessed apostate in their planned ambush?

Well, first off the Warden is never really advertised as anything but that: anonymous dude who kills darkspawn to keep people safe, and by chance manages to stop an entire Blight 2 man high before things get out of hand.
Actually, the wardens in Orlais and the Free Marches would probably have handled it anyway, eventually, so technically it's just Ferelden you save. And again, you are still just regarded as one warden among many, albeit a very skilled one. My entire point is: Why celebrate Hawke as an ultmate hero for partially saving one city from relatively minor threats and having a SLIGHT role in the eventual disaster compared to that?

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 02:33 .

[Perfect-Kenshin]

DoNotIngest wrote...

...And what makes the Warden any different? They're an unknown who is lucky enough to get through the joining, and then travel around doing favors for different races/organizations, quite similarly to how Hawke does his jobs, rescues, demon/dragon hunting, etc. You could say the Warden was important because they saved Thedas from the Blight and killed a big dragon; However, Alistair or even Loghain could very well be the ones to do the job for you, so what makes you so special? You have a few notches in your belt and some stories you can begin with "No ****, there I was... It was THIS big!", but aside from that, they're not that different.

Besides, if Hawke hadn't accompanied Anders to the Chantry, he probably would have been slaughtered, averting the whole fiasco; Unless somebody thinks, what, twenty Templar mage-hunters would have been put down by a single possessed apostate in their planned ambush?

Easy. The Warden may be some random nobody, but circumstances (Allistair not wanting to lead and him and Allistair being the only Wardens left) pushed him into leading and being the leader of the anti-Blight forces. Without the Warden, Allistair is a failure as you can see in the Darspawn DLC. Loghain would have been too obsessed with the Orlesians to fight the Blight, which would have resulted in the destruction of Fereldan.


You can remove Hawke from DA2, and the same thing is going to happen. Varric  would still get Anders to give him maps for the deep roads, he could still hire someone to help him out with the deep roads expedition. Even if Bartrand's betrayal resulted in Varric's death, this wouldn't change the fact that Meredith purchases the idol or Anders blowing up the chantry and causes the mages and templars to fight. And I'm confident that the Templars coud have taken care of the Quanari, for what it was worth. I don't see the Arishok lasting long in a duel with Meredith.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 03 avril 2011 - 02:32 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

My thought about Hawke:

Hawke is an imaginary character derived from Varric story. No one knows whether he is alive or dead. Technically Hawke doesn't exist. In that sense, Hawke can't be role played by anyone. Hawke can't be anyone character but BioWare. Hawke is prime example of illusion of choices where he, the victim of incoherence voice tone suffer dysfunction personification of voiced protagonist. Not only that, Hawke suffer brain damage as he can blurt out dialogue lines without player input. Because of that, Hawke can't be loved and cared as those that stands in the hall of paragons of player characters like my beloved grey warden, Amber Cousland who sacrifice herself in the fifth blight. Hawke is now recognized as semi NPC with certain privilege of customization. As the result, Hawke character and story can not be personal. In addition, Hawke illusion of choices do not accomplish anything in the mage crisis that ultimately become apparent when Anders is responsible to change the world forever. However, BioWare insist that Hawke is the single most important person in Thedas because when he press button something awesome happens.

[sorentoft]

Why does it have to be about something über epic wtfomgbadass? Personally I am fine with having games about even lesser things so long they are interesting and DA2 certainly is in my opinion.

[ThomasBlaine]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

My thought about Hawke:

Hawke is an imaginary character derived from Varric story. No one knows whether he is alive or dead. Technically Hawke doesn't exist. In that sense, Hawke can't be role played by anyone. Hawke can't be anyone character but BioWare. Hawke is prime example of illusion of choices where he, the victim of incoherence voice tone suffer dysfunction personification of voiced protagonist. Not only that, Hawke suffer brain damage as he can blurt out dialogue lines without player input. Because of that, Hawke can't be loved and cared as those that stands in the hall of paragons of player characters like my beloved grey warden, Amber Cousland who sacrifice herself in the fifth blight. Hawke is now recognized as semi NPC with certain privilege of customization. As the result, Hawke character and story can not be personal. In addition, Hawke illusion of choices do not accomplish anything in the mage crisis that ultimately become apparent when Anders is responsible to change the world forever. However, BioWare insist that Hawke is the single most important person in Thedas because when he press button something awesome happens.

Hehe, awesome But whether Hawke is strictly authentic or not, his "exploits" simply doesn't line up with the praise and importance everyone throws at him.