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[jimmy_smith]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

jimmy_smith wrote...

I don't think the man/woman that catalyst both the circle and templar uprising all across thedas is unimportant.

In game codex, the greatest threat in thedas history is qunary invasion, not the blight.

according by Cassanda(or someone else I'm not sure)
the circle/templar uprising is the next greatest threat since qunary invasion.

The event that Hawke sparked is more serious than the blight.

Can you quote the game codex? Because that doesn't make any sense. The Arishok didn't "invade Thedas", he camped out in Kirkwall because Isabela's theft prevented him from going home with what small army he had, and then he eventually just got fed up with people's stupidity, snapped, and attacked the Kirkwall government. The second he had the book he would've sailed home, the only reason you have to fight him at all is because he demands to take Isabela with him. At no point was this any threat to Thedas at large, if even Kirkwall.

Sorry for late answer.
Qunary invasion is not the event Arishok attack Kirkwall.
It's the first Qunary war that happen hundreds years ago. Qunary conquer 2/3 of all Thedas.
so White divine and Black divine had to join force to repel them.

and about my claim
when you meet "sister nightingale" in act3(sorry again, this info is from her not Cassanda)
she tell you that the whole world watch Kirkwall now
and the divine herself foresee the incoming circle uprising will be the greatest threat since qunary invasion

Modifié par jimmy_smith, 06 avril 2011 - 10:21 .

[ThomasBlaine]

jimmy_smith wrote...

Sorry for late answer.
Qunary invasion is not the event Arishok attack Kirkwall.
It's the first Qunary war that happen hundreds years ago. Qunary conquer 2/3 of all Thedas,so White divine and Black divine had to join force to repel them.

and about my claim
when you meet "sister nightingale" in act3(sorry again, this info is from her not Cassanda)
she tell you that the whole world watch Kirkwall now
and the divine herself foresee the incoming circle uprising will be the greatest threat since qunary invasion

Ah, hehe sorry I actually had no idea the Quanari had ever engaged Thedas like that.
Well, that doesn't dispute anything. Hawke had practically no involvement.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 06 avril 2011 - 10:19 .

[nicethugbert]

Hmm, I see, there is an over abundance of level 22 characters in the DA universe. No wonder it's in chaos.

[jimmy_smith]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

jimmy_smith wrote...

Sorry for late answer.
Qunary invasion is not the event Arishok attack Kirkwall.
It's the first Qunary war that happen hundreds years ago. Qunary conquer 2/3 of all Thedas,so White divine and Black divine had to join force to repel them.

and about my claim
when you meet "sister nightingale" in act3(sorry again, this info is from her not Cassanda)
she tell you that the whole world watch Kirkwall now
and the divine herself foresee the incoming circle uprising will be the greatest threat since qunary invasion

Ah, hehe sorry I actually had no idea the Quanari had ever engaged Thedas like that.
Well, that doesn't dispute anything. Hawke had practically no involvement.

why he is not involve?
if he join mages he is the very reason that the rite of annulment fail(it's the first time of this rite fail)
Some of mage survive and travel to all across thedas to inspire the circle uprising.

He became an icon of this uprising and Cassanda herself say he is the only person that can stop this chaos because he is the only one that all mages will listen.

I didn't join templar before,so the ending maybe different if you join them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cullen called the Rite off.

[jimmy_smith]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cullen called the Rite off.

after Meredith die by Hawke's hands so Cullen is still alive and get the authority to call it off?

Modifié par jimmy_smith, 06 avril 2011 - 11:09 .

[ThomasBlaine]

jimmy_smith wrote...

why he is not involve?
if he join mages he is the very reason that the rite of annulment fail(it's the first time of this rite fail)
Some of mage survive and travel to all across thedas to inspire the circle uprising.

He became an icon of this uprising and Cassanda herself say he is the only person that can stop this chaos because he is the only one that all mages will listen.

Anders sparked an already evident war -it was just a matter of time anyway, and the high concentration of bloodmages and demon-infested really left the templars with no choice - which convinced Meredith that the right of Annulment was the only way out. Like i said, Hawke's only involvement was making sure Anders was still around to do it at all, and that's assuming he wouldn't have done it anyway.
No freaking way in hell Hawke could possibly stop the mage rebellion now, the thought is completely and utterly absurd and almost certainly wishful thinking on Cassandra's part.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 06 avril 2011 - 11:16 .

[Edhriano]

I think Hawke's importance is purely circumstantial, he / she is as important as
the first drop of snow that rolls down the mountain before it become an avalanche
in which any drop of snow can do that with the same result : avalanche.

The fateful meeting with Varics is what triggers the series chains of events in
kirkwall.

My guess it is because at the time there is no means to mass announce what
truly happen and how hawke became champion, thus everything was told
from mouth 2 mouth in which in time the story become so very very epic.

[jimmy_smith]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

jimmy_smith wrote...

why he is not involve?
if he join mages he is the very reason that the rite of annulment fail(it's the first time of this rite fail)
Some of mage survive and travel to all across thedas to inspire the circle uprising.

He became an icon of this uprising and Cassanda herself say he is the only person that can stop this chaos because he is the only one that all mages will listen.

Anders sparked an already evident war -it was just a matter of time anyway, and the high concentration of bloodmages and demon-infested really left the templars with no choice - which convinced Meredith that the right of Annulment was the only way out. Like i said, Hawke's only involvement was making sure Anders was still around to do it at all, and that's assuming he wouldn't have done it anyway.
No freaking way in hell Hawke could possibly stop the mage rebellion now, the thought is completely and utterly absurd and almost certainly wishful thinking on Cassandra's part.

Ander is not part of the circle.
I doubt any sane mage will agree with his action and start the rebellion because of that.
In fact Orsino ever stop his uprising and offer to surrender because of that.

[Stegoceras]

Edhriano wrote...
My guess it is because at the time there is no means to mass announce what
truly happen and how hawke became champion, thus everything was told
from mouth 2 mouth in which in time the story become so very very epic.

I have read this argument before and I don't completly get it.
If I presume I play Varric's version of what happened during the game that would thus mean that it's exaggerated, so in reality Hawke would have achieved even less? I'm just not seeing how that could be an argument to enforce the importance of Hawke.

[ThomasBlaine]

jimmy_smith wrote...

Ander is not part of the circle.
I doubt any sane mage will agree with his action and start the rebellion because of that.
In fact Orsino ever stop his uprising and offer to surrender because of that.

No, Anders is a known apostate, you think Meredith really cares? Destruction of the chantry by mage hands is what finally lights the fire.
"I doubt any sane mage will agree with his action and start the rebellion because of that."
They don't neccesarily agree with his actions, but the show of Templar weakness is exactly what causes them to rebel.
Well, that and the subsequent purge attempt.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 06 avril 2011 - 02:07 .

[jimmy_smith]

well I came back to watch the ending again and start to thinks somethings
"Hawke is not the cause of this chaos"
maybe this is the whole point of the story in DA:II?

At first Cassanda thinks Hawke plan to destroy the chantry from the start because he is the icon of this uprising.
And we didn't know the whole story just like Cassanda.
All we know is Hawke is the champion of kirkwall and became the single most important character in the world of Thedas.

But the true story is
"he is just an ordinary person(well maybe VERY strong ordinary person) that be in the wrong place at the wrong time."

But the story can't be this far without Hawke,too. Like the conversation between Cassanda and Verric at the end

Verric: So that's it. That's the whole story.
Cassanda: Then Meredith provoked the circle. She was to blame.
Verric: Or that damned Idol was. Or Anders. Take your pick.
Cassanda: Even so, had the Champion not been there........
Verric: It might never have ever gone that far.

Modifié par jimmy_smith, 06 avril 2011 - 12:28 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

jimmy_smith wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cullen called the Rite off.

after Meredith die by Hawke's hands so Cullen is still alive and get the authority to call it off?

Cullen turned against Meredith (he saw she was nutso).
He's actually fighting with the PC against Meredith.

No matter which side you pick, the templars in Kirkwall are not "chrushed".

[17thknight]

You've actually got a fairly good point, OP.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The whole thing doesn't make much sense to me....

Regarldess wich side you pick, the mages end up the one being decimated... so why would all the Cirlces rise up suddenly?
If it was a clear and decisive mage victory..then I might understand (but it's still unlikely given the loyalists and aquetarians)...

[17thknight]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The whole thing doesn't make much sense to me....

Regarldess wich side you pick, the mages end up the one being decimated... so why would all the Cirlces rise up suddenly?
If it was a clear and decisive mage victory..then I might understand (but it's still unlikely given the loyalists and aquetarians)...

Plus given the fact that the whole game tries to make the mages seem like the poor and oppressed innocents, meanwhile every last ****ing one is practicing blood magic and pissing around with demons, thus proving the Templars right alll along.

[Pacifien]

Moved to the spoiler forum. 'Cause, you know.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It all depends on wether or not the story is over. If Hawke's story is compeltely over already (ie. no dlc, expansion or sequel), then his importance will be dependant on the events of the game (finding the idol, killing the Arishok/making peace with the Arishok, assiting the Templars/Mages) which will define his importance. If tehre is going to be dlc and an expansion, even a sequel, there are a lot of time to explain and show why Hawke is the most important person in Thedas.

[Andronic0s]

I agree I like Hawke but he is not important to anything it seems,

Deep Roads, he was only needed to clear the side road, nothing big there, anyone competent could have done that, even the dragon is not that hard.

Qunari, If Hawke would not have helped Isabela she would not have gotten her hands on the relic, and seems likely the Qunari would have beaten the few Tevinter mages trying to retrieve it thus cutting the insurrection before it began.

Templar/Mages, nothing to say here as nothing Hawke does in Act III, changes anything...

[AlexXIV]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It all depends on wether or not the story is over. If Hawke's story is compeltely over already (ie. no dlc, expansion or sequel), then his importance will be dependant on the events of the game (finding the idol, killing the Arishok/making peace with the Arishok, assiting the Templars/Mages) which will define his importance. If tehre is going to be dlc and an expansion, even a sequel, there are a lot of time to explain and show why Hawke is the most important person in Thedas.

That's why I am only going to buy DA3 if it features Hawke again. I don't want a new hero just to have him or her disappearing at the end again. That's getting old. And if Bioware is going to drop Hawke like a hot potatoe because they screwed up, I am going to drop DA like a hot potatoe.

[Andronic0s]

Well Bioware already stated that all the DLC/expansion will feature Hawke, so we'll get to see him again, that being said I would welcome a chance to have a third hero for DA3, the world of Thedas is pretty big and I personally would hate cataclysm to occur before I get to see Orlais or Tevinter, and origin stories could help with that :-)

[Darth Krytie]

Andronic0s wrote...

Well Bioware already stated that all the DLC/expansion will feature Hawke, so we'll get to see him again, that being said I would welcome a chance to have a third hero for DA3, the world of Thedas is pretty big and I personally would hate cataclysm to occur before I get to see Orlais or Tevinter, and origin stories could help with that :-)

I never saw this. Mind telling me where you read that?



As for the other topic, I think it'd be better if we have a new person to play in DA:3  And maybe different races again. As much as I adore Hawke (and I really do ), I like the idea of not having the same character in each DA game. It's not the same as ME: 3 which is a continous story, with a central figure.

[LadyVaJedi]

I believe the Seeker found Hawke's diary Don't forget that she/he was writing everything down in their journal

[ThomasBlaine]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The whole thing doesn't make much sense to me....

Regarldess wich side you pick, the mages end up the one being decimated... so why would all the Cirlces rise up suddenly?
If it was a clear and decisive mage victory..then I might understand (but it's still unlikely given the loyalists and aquetarians)...

The mages of Kirkwall aren't decimated, either the majority or a few (depending on the side you pick) escape to tell the tale of a single mage taking down an entire Chantry, a major templar authority going completely nuts(remember, templars are supposed to represent ultimate dicipline against magical corruption), blood mages and abberations everywhere, or an entire circle going apostate and getting away with it.
No matter what, any of these rumors would rile up quite a few circle factions, and likely many templars too. Maybe the templars decided that things were getting out of hand and tried an all-out genocide? maybe the unstable situation inspired another circle entirely(the Tevinter circle?)  to attempt rebellion and the rest followed track? Either way, things blew up and a full-scale war broke out.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 06 avril 2011 - 02:31 .

[ThomasBlaine]

17thknight wrote...

Plus given the fact that the whole game tries to make the mages seem like the poor and oppressed innocents, meanwhile every last ****ing one is practicing blood magic and pissing around with demons, thus proving the Templars right alll along.

Agreed,I would argue that since two thirds of the mages you either condemn or help escape throughout the story turns out to be either blood mages or abberations, the templars are actually cast in a much more justified light compared to Origins.