323 réponses à ce sujet

[Andronic0s]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Well Bioware already stated that all the DLC/expansion will feature Hawke, so we'll get to see him again, that being said I would welcome a chance to have a third hero for DA3, the world of Thedas is pretty big and I personally would hate cataclysm to occur before I get to see Orlais or Tevinter, and origin stories could help with that :-)

I never saw this. Mind telling me where you read that?



As for the other topic, I think it'd be better if we have a new person to play in DA:3  And maybe different races again. As much as I adore Hawke (and I really do ), I like the idea of not having the same character in each DA game. It's not the same as ME: 3 which is a continous story, with a central figure.

In a dev post on a DLC request thread (I think it might have been requesting the Warden for DLC) near release, unfortunately as there is no search function I can't quote it  

[Bowie Hawkins]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

We've already dealt with the Qunari issue serveral times.

There has yet to be an argument against that having real significance outside of the Wounded Coast that has managed to be convincing.

[Bowie Hawkins]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

I must disagree. Preventing Kirkwall from falling to the Qunari is more than slightly significant.

He prevented it? When?

I don't know about your copy of the game, but in mine, the Qunari were going to force all of the nobility to either convert or die, and Hawke stopped that by killing the Arishok.

[Patriciachr34]

Hey!  Don't knock the Hawke!  Sorry.  It had to be said. 
(slinks away before the stones fly).

[Andronic0s]

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

I must disagree. Preventing Kirkwall from falling to the Qunari is more than slightly significant.

He prevented it? When?

I don't know about your copy of the game, but in mine, the Qunari were going to force all of the nobility to either convert or die, and Hawke stopped that by killing the Arishok.

In my copy of the game the templars where about to handle them when I stole their kill :innocent:

[expanding panic]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

expanding panic wrote...

So your saying I match my Avatar because I am logical and see there is a possibility of why Hawk can be the Ultimate Hero that Bioware tried to make him sound like. Good point. If thats the case then I'd have to agree. But then you previous post doesn't make much sense does it? 
What's getting real tiresome is all the Hate threads going around. 

Not at all, I'm implying that your post demonstrates a tendency to make quick assumptions and believe them reasonable despite circumstances which you don't care to check out. Much like Miranda imo, but that was just a stray thought
Fist off, I have in the OP stated this not to be a hate-thread, and if you actually read the tread's content you would realise that we're having a pretty sensible discussion, the odd self-righteous bigot aside.
You would also realise that your entire point has very little to do with the subject we're dealing with.
If you read really closely, you might even see that every one of your arguments have been recycled and dealt with nummerous times already.
Still wish to argue a point? Then do so, but get your facts straight and lower yourself to eyelevel.

I like the view from up here so Ill stay up here, its easier to see whats going on. My points have everything to do with this topic they just don't fit within your selected rules for this thread. Also just because you say its not a hate thread doesn't mean its not a hate thread. I could be wrong but thats what it seems like to me. I always try to have a sensible discussion but you started I dont know do what ever you were and still trying to do in you last post.o it is what it is. I don't have time to read 11+ pages in a thread you may and if thats true more power to you. I do not.  From here on out I'm going to try to have a sensible discussion with you can we do that? And no I was not trying to be sarcastic I'm serious.

You said and I'm paraphrasing that Hawke really didn't do much of anything of importance and you don't understand why Bioware tried to make him seem like the Ultimate hero.  That the war between the mages and Templars would most likely have happened without Hawke. Am I right so far?
 
But the fact is that Hawke was in the middle of it and did in fact help the war begin with the choices he has made. If it was his intentions or not. Depending on the side he chose won the battle and if he sided with the mages then gave the mages the guts to over throw their circle also. Thats a big deal.

He also saved Kirkwall from the Qunari to become Champion. I think it's safe to say that Hawkes story is not finished I personally think that an act 4 is missing which leads me to believe there will be an expansion to perhaps finish the decade and Hakes story. 

Or just don't reply and thats that too.

Modifié par expanding panic, 06 avril 2011 - 10:50 .

[goatman42]

Don't dis on my Hawke, she is the best! Her sarcastic lovable charm and neutral stance on everything makes her seem like a female Jack Sparrow. I'd love for her to return in Dragon Age 3.

[Stick668]

"Is it fate or chance? I can never decide."

Hawke got lucky. And/or unlucky. Or the Maker pulled a classic deity-style prank. Does it matter?

How many "heroic tales" aren't made up of "stuff just got out of hand while I was minding my own business"? An arrpeegee protagonist isn't a Civilization player. No matter how far you're allowed to zoom out.

"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So, wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." 

And the thing about being the Free Man is that you really aren't. Because total freedom isn't a story and it certainly isn't a game.

Story-based computer game equals a bit of rails. We can argue about the layout of the tracks, but saying "Hawke's not so special" just misses the point.

Ramble mode off. Carry on.

[ThomasBlaine]

expanding panic wrote...

I like the view from up here so Ill stay up here, its easier to see whats going on. My points have everything to do with this topic they just don't fit within your selected rules for this thread. Also just because you say its not a hate thread doesn't mean its not a hate thread. I could be wrong but thats what it seems like to me. I always try to have a sensible discussion but you started I dont know do what ever you were and still trying to do in you last post.o it is what it is. I don't have time to read 11+ pages in a thread you may and if thats true more power to you. I do not.  From here on out I'm going to try to have a sensible discussion with you can we do that?

You said and I'm paraphrasing that Hawke really didn't do much of anything of importance and you don't understand why Bioware tried to make him seem like the Ultimate hero.  That the war between the mages and Templars would most likely have happened without Hawke. Am I right so far?
 
But the fact is that Hawke was in the middle of it and did in fact help the war begin with the choices he has made. If it was his intentions or not. Depending on the side he chose won the battle and if he sided with the mages then gave the mages the guts to over throw their circle also. Thats a big deal.

He also saved Kirkwall from the Qunari to become Champion. I think it's safe to say that Hawkes story is not finished I personally think that an act 4 is missing which leads me to believe there will be an expansion to perhaps finish the decade and Hakes story. 

Or just don't reply and thats that too.

You don't think we're having a sensible discussion? Like I said, it was a stray thought about your avatar, you were not meant to take offense.

Ok, please stop condemning threads you haven't read. I'm not saying that the thread becomes hate-free because i said so, I'm saying that this is not a hate-thread. And for every idiot who have actually complained unreasonably about the game, four idiots have complained that everybody does, simply because they don't bother to follow the discussion. You included, in case it isn't obvious.
I've read this ****. You haven't. Shut up about it or start reading.

I've been very upfront about the fact that Hawke is important, and I know exactly why Bioware have advertised him as the ultimate hero. Fact is, he is a hero, and means something to the people of Thedas, but nowhere near on the scale he is advertised to.

No, nobody wins the battle between the Kirkwall circle and the templars.
Orsino goes nuts before all the mages are cut to pieces, and then Meredith does too. The only thing Hawke's decision determines is whether most, or just a few apostates escape the purge -which changes nothing about the consequenses of the battle-, and what the templars think of him afterwards.
I'm still not seeing the "most important figure in Thedas' history" thing...

And please tell me which of his decisions affects the outcome of the game on international levels, because that would render this entire thread moot. You know, aside from his own reputation.

And why wouldn't I reply? Not doing so would kinda defeat the purpose of starting this crap in the first place, wouldn't it?

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 02:49 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Stick668 wrote...

"Is it fate or chance? I can never decide."

Hawke got lucky. And/or unlucky. Or the Maker pulled a classic deity-style prank. Does it matter?

How many "heroic tales" aren't made up of "stuff just got out of hand while I was minding my own business"? An arrpeegee protagonist isn't a Civilization player. No matter how far you're allowed to zoom out.

"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So, wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." 

And the thing about being the Free Man is that you really aren't. Because total freedom isn't a story and it certainly isn't a game.

Story-based computer game equals a bit of rails. We can argue about the layout of the tracks, but saying "Hawke's not so special" just misses the point.

Ramble mode off. Carry on.

That's all very beautiful, and mostly true, but since Hawke doesn't actually do anything important enough to merit his reputation it doesn't apply.

[Aldandil]

It's interesting to see the reaction when the main character isn't chosen by gods or fate.

[ThomasBlaine]

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

We've already dealt with the Qunari issue serveral times.

There has yet to be an argument against that having real significance outside of the Wounded Coast that has managed to be convincing.

Give me a convincing argument that anything he does have a real significance outside of the Wounded Coast.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 10:51 .

[PPR223]

I agree with the OP that Hawke did not feel all that important, and believe that his story is done. Even when he becomes Champion, it is only a respectful title that holds hardly any influence. I think this could have been easily fixed had they made him Viscount instead, due to the fact that he would have an army at his command.

Hawke was simply a witness to the Mage-Templar fighting, and had no influence over the course it would take. The only relatively important thing that Hawke did was to get rid of the Qunari, and even then Hawke could get rid of them by giving the Arishok the book and Isabela, hardly deserving of the Champion title.

I just don't see how there is enough to carry on with Hawke, afterall I just see him as someone who is in the wrong place at the wrong time. He has very little bearing on what happens, and so I can only see him as a way to tell the story of how the Templar-Mage War began.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

It's interesting to see the reaction when the main character isn't chosen by gods or fate.

It's not his motivation that is the issue, his hype is.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 02:23 .

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

It's interesting to see the reaction when the main character isn't chosen by gods or fate.

It's not his motivation that's the isn't the issue, his hype is.

His hype? Didn't he kill the Arishok in a duel? Was he not trapped in a dwarven thaig and returned with great riches? Wasn't he there when the mage rebellion began? These are reasons enough for a hype in the real world, so it's definitely enough to make him a name in the game. Throughout history, people are remembered for doing what anyone could have done, but that's beside the point since only one person did it.

Before DA:O came out, a lot of people were complaining about the trope of the orphan/farmhand/whatever who rises to power because he is chosen by fate/gods. There was a general consensus that it would be interesting to play a regular Joe who was at the right place in the right time. Gamers are a tough crowd to please.

[Stick668]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

That's all very beautiful, and mostly true

Why, thank you! Oh wait.

Is this what damnation by faint praise feels like?
 

but since Hawke doesn't actually do anything important enough to merit his reputation it doesn't apply.

Even if that was true, which I'd certainly contest...
"Meriting" a reputation cooked up by Varric freaking Tethras is a bit of a tall order, isn't it? 

A "Champion" is just a not-dead adventurer with good press. In the end, it doesn't really matter what happened. The movie version of it is what starts the war. (Yes, blame Varric!)

... but I still don't get this "nothing important enough" point-of-view.

[Clive Howlitzer]

I liked Hawke.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

It's interesting to see the reaction when the main character isn't chosen by gods or fate.

It's not his motivation that's the issue, his hype is.

His hype? Didn't he kill the Arishok in a duel? Was he not trapped in a dwarven thaig and returned with great riches? Wasn't he there when the mage rebellion began? These are reasons enough for a hype in the real world, so it's definitely enough to make him a name in the game. Throughout history, people are remembered for doing what anyone could have done, but that's beside the point since only one person did it.

Before DA:O came out, a lot of people were complaining about the trope of the orphan/farmhand/whatever who rises to power because he is chosen by fate/gods. There was a general consensus that it would be interesting to play a regular Joe who was at the right place in the right time. Gamers are a tough crowd to please.

I agree completely with every point you make, but neither Einstein, Alexander The Great, Columbus, Archimedes, Oppenheimer or any other historically defining individual have or should ever be credited "the single most important person in (X-continent)´s history". You can call someone a hero for doing something remarkable just because no one else would, but you simply can't level any one character above everybody else for that reason alone. They've done that with Hawke, and it doesn't make any sense given his actions.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 03:24 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Stick668 wrote...

Why, thank you! Oh wait.

Is this what damnation by faint praise feels like?
Even if that was true, which I'd certainly contest...
"Meriting" a reputation cooked up by Varric freaking Tethras is a bit of a tall order, isn't it? 

A "Champion" is just a not-dead adventurer with good press. In the end, it doesn't really matter what happened. The movie version of it is what starts the war. (Yes, blame Varric!)

... but I still don't get this "nothing important enough" point-of-view.

No, I'm serious, that was beautiful and relevant quotes, but it's not so much Hawke's reason for being the main character or the hype spread by Varric I worry about. It's the hype spread by Bioware and the unexplained credit he recieves throughout the game I find strange.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 02:42 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I liked Hawke.

Me too. But not quite enough to overlook this.

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

I agree completely with every point you make, but neither Einstein, Columbus, Archimedes, Oppenheimer or any other historically defining individual have or should ever be credited "the single most important person in (X-continent)´s history". You can call someone a hero for doing something remarkable just because no one else would, but you simply can't level any one character above everybody else for that reason alone. They've done that with Hawke, and it doesn't make any sense given his actions.

Well, the reason he could be considered the most important character is discussed in a different thread, and that doesn't really have anything to do with what he has done, but rather what others think of him, much like political leaders such as US presidents.

[Bmeszaros]

The one thing the writers and developers have said is that they have this huge world (Thedas) to explore. Its quite obvious that Dragon Age is the story of Thedas in, well, the Dragon Age. All the "stories" around this game and first about are essentially about Thedas. The difference is in the first game, you, as the PC, were propelling the narrative in different directions based on choices. That element has been taken out to accomodate other elements in second game.

[RazorrX]

There is a recent post that alludes to the fact that Hawke "MAY" come back for the sequel.

David Gaider wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...
This thread has me worried. I was really hoping Hawke would be the DA3 main character, but DG's coments make that seem quite unlikely.

As I said earlier, whether we use Origins it would really depend on the story we chose to pursue. If Hawke was the main character, then we probably wouldn't need them-- there'd already be multiple entry points into the story. If he/she wasn't, then we could consider it.

Don't take my comments as being anything more than a suggestion that the future of the game, and its features, are set in stone. There will be plenty of time for people to hyperventilate when and if any changes are announced. {smilie}

I am of the opinion that they are debating now if they are going to go the way of Mass Effect for Dragon Age. It is possible they do, and if so Hawke is the new Shepard. They *could* create a new protagonist but that would alienate the people who want to keep playing Hawke.

They could do stand alone Sequels where the main character always changes thus putting more focus on the world (original plan from what I remember), but making each one more like DA2 and less like DA:O. Fewer choices, Fewer Races, etc. as those take time to implement and we are probably on a 18 month dev cycle now.

Either way the good side is more games more often (every 18 months), the downside is the days of Baldur's Gate, NWN and Dragon Age:Origins are probably gone (at least from Bioware) as they take too long to make.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

I agree completely with every point you make, but neither Einstein, Columbus, Archimedes, Oppenheimer or any other historically defining individual have or should ever be credited "the single most important person in (X-continent)´s history". You can call someone a hero for doing something remarkable just because no one else would, but you simply can't level any one character above everybody else for that reason alone. They've done that with Hawke, and it doesn't make any sense given his actions.

Well, the reason he could be considered the most important character is discussed in a different thread, and that doesn't really have anything to do with what he has done, but rather what others think of him, much like political leaders such as US presidents.

Heh, my thread is 4 days older than his, and yes that's exactly what we've been discussing So, you're saying that Obama is currently "the US´s most important person"? That would upset a few people... And I disagree.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 03:38 .

[Dr. Nexas]

Maybe I've been over thinking things, but I kind of figured the fact that Hawke wasn't as important and awesome as advertised was kind of the point. We're lead to believe that Hawke is this legendary figure who slew dragons single-handedly, and unseated rulers by pure charisma, but the truth is that (s)he is just a highly competent dude (or lady) who constantly found him/herself at the right place at the right time. Hell, the entire reason Cassandra was searching for Hawke was because the Chantry thought (s)he was some sort of magnificent bastard who had been planning Mage/Templar war from the get go. But its not true. To me DA2 was about how legends are completely overblown and that the people in them are just men and women.

Modifié par Dr. Nexas, 07 avril 2011 - 03:44 .