323 réponses à ce sujet

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Heh, my thread is 4 days older than his, and yes that's exactly what we've been discussing So, you're saying that Obama is currently "the US´s most important person"? That would upset a few people... And I disagree.

Add a civil war where he would be the only person both sides would listen to, then maybe .

Modifié par Aldandil, 07 avril 2011 - 03:44 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Heh, my thread is 4 days older than his, and yes that's exactly what we've been discussing So, you're saying that Obama is currently "the US´s most important person"? That would upset a few people... And I disagree.

Add a civil war where he would be the only person both sides would listen to, then maybe .

Eeh, he's not. He wouldn't be. And neither is Hawke, I honestly don't know where you got that idea.
A civil war where both sides would listen to a single unrelated person. Seriously? I'm tempted to call that naive, but make your point.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Heh, my thread is 4 days older than his, and yes that's exactly what we've been discussing So, you're saying that Obama is currently "the US´s most important person"? That would upset a few people... And I disagree.

Add a civil war where he would be the only person both sides would listen to, then maybe .

Eeh, he's not. He wouldn't be. And neither is Hawke, I honestly don't know where you got that idea.
A civil war where both sides would listen to a single unrelated person. Seriously?

It's believed to be the case in DA2. That is what is said in the epilogue.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Heh, my thread is 4 days older than his, and yes that's exactly what we've been discussing So, you're saying that Obama is currently "the US´s most important person"? That would upset a few people... And I disagree.

Add a civil war where he would be the only person both sides would listen to, then maybe .

Eeh, he's not. He wouldn't be. And neither is Hawke, I honestly don't know where you got that idea.
A civil war where both sides would listen to a single unrelated person. Seriously?

It's believed to be the case in DA2. That is what is said in the epilogue.

A ah, Cassandra wishes it to be the case in the epilogue.

Imagine, You and every one of your kind have been locked up in phallus-shaped towers your entire lives for hundreds of years, and the zealous, stoic and uncompromising order of walking cans who keep you in chains and have regularly slaughtered cleared out the inhabitants evey century or so finally shows a hint of vulnerability. You strike out, manage to escape, sees the sunlight for the first time in years, and vows to never again let the bastards who kept you prisoner compromise your freedom ever again.

Alternately:
The race of unstable, all-powerful and potentially sinister affronts of nature you and your comrades have been guarding with your lives to protect the innocent for hundreds of years finally breaks free, kills a number of your friends and escape to terrorize the world at their leizure. You gather the loyal, and sets out to strike down every murderous abberation you can track.

Then a dude or lady, who the rumors say had something to do with how the whole mess started, shows up and tells you to go back in your cages/stop killing deadly murderers, and all be friends.

Do you follow his/her advice? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png
**** No!!
You have every right to do what you're doing, and no amount of diplomacy will ever make you forgive those bastards!

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 04:35 .

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

A ah, Cassandra wishes it to be the case in the epilogue.

Imagine, You and every one of your kind have been locked up in phallus-shaped towers your entire lives for hundreds of years, and the zealous, stoic and uncompromising order of walking cans who keep you in chains and have regularly slaughtered cleared the inhabitants evey century or so finally shows a hint of vulnerability. You strike out, manage to escape, sees the sunlight for the first time in years, and vows to never again let the bastards who kept you prisoner compromise your freedom ever again.

Alternately:
The race of unstable, all-powerful and potentially sinister affronts of nature you and your comrades have been guarding with your lives to protect the innocent for hundreds of years finally breaks free, kills a number of your friends and escapes to terrorize the world at their leizure. You gather the loyal, and sets out to strike down every murderous abberation you can track.

Then a dude or lady, who the rumors say had something to do with how the whole mess started,  tells you to go back in your cages/stop killing deadly murderers, and all be friends.

What do you do?../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png

So Cassandra is wrong? Sure, it's possible. Varric didn't exactly call her out, though. Considering that they exist within the world, and you do not, they have probably been able to keep better tabs on the development of the situation than any person on the forums. This doesn't mean she's right, but we don't know anything about the state of affairs more than what is told in that cell. Let's just say that if she's right, it's fair to call Hawke important.

And by the way, we've been told that Hawke is important. I wonder if these facts are connected.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

So Cassandra is wrong? Sure, it's possible. Varric didn't exactly call her out, though. Considering that they exist within the world, and you do not, they have probably been able to keep better tabs on the development of the situation than any person on the forums. This doesn't mean she's right, but we don't know anything about the state of affairs more than what is told in that cell. Let's just say that if she's right, it's fair to call Hawke important.

And by the way, we've been told that Hawke is important. I wonder if these facts are connected.

Stop putting the same words in my mouth over and over again! Hawke is important, but sure as **** not the most important person in Thedas just because you want him to be.
If DA3 rolls around, and Hawke convinces either the templars or the mages turned apostates to back down, the franchise has officially crossed from gritty surrealism into Alice in Wonderland-esque disney territory, because that doesn't make psychologically sense.

Cassandra is desperate, grasping at straws, searching for a man who can work miracles because that's what she's heard, and that's what she needs.

And everything I've assumed is 100% backed up in the epilogue's objective narration.

Correction: Hypothetically, there is one way. Uniting the mages and templars against a common, much more dangerous enemy could possibly give an incredibly small chance of settling things relatively peacefully. But we've never heard of anything that could threaten Thedas like that.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 04:55 .

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Stop putting the same words in my mouth over and over again! Hawke is important, but sure as **** not the most important person in Thedas just because you want him to be.
If DA3 rolls around, and Hawke convinces either the templars or the mages turned apostates to back down, the franchise has officially crossed from gritty surrealism into Alice in Wonderland-esque disney territory, because that doesn't make psychologically sense.

Cassandra is desperate, grasping at straws, searching for a man who can work miracles because that's what she's heard, and that's what she needs.

Well, that's what the game says. If it doesn't agree with your assessment, then I suppose it doesn't. Since we have three years of history that we don't know anything about, I'd say it's pretty hard to exclude anything, but I won't try to stop you.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Stop putting the same words in my mouth over and over again! Hawke is important, but sure as **** not the most important person in Thedas just because you want him to be.
If DA3 rolls around, and Hawke convinces either the templars or the mages turned apostates to back down, the franchise has officially crossed from gritty surrealism into Alice in Wonderland-esque disney territory, because that doesn't make psychologically sense.

Cassandra is desperate, grasping at straws, searching for a man who can work miracles because that's what she's heard, and that's what she needs.

Well, that's what the game says. If it doesn't agree with your assessment, then I suppose it doesn't. Since we have three years of history that we don't know anything about, I'd say it's pretty hard to exclude anything, but I won't try to stop you.

*sigh* What does the game say that have you so convinced, and where does it say that we have three years' worth of history yet to come?
And why didn't you lead with that?

[Bowie Hawkins]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

There has yet to be an argument against that having real significance outside of the Wounded Coast that has managed to be convincing.

Give me a convincing argument that anything he does have a real significance outside of the Wounded Coast.

Perhaps you noticed the mention in the game of war breaking out between the Circles and the Tamplars outside of the Wounded Coast?

[Edit] On second thought, rather than risk wasting more time citing things from inside the game that address the arguments Thomas keeps making, time to feed my block list one more morsel.

Modifié par Bowie Hawkins, 07 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

*sigh* What does the game say that have you so convinced, and where does it say that we have three years' worth of history yet to come?
And why didn't you lead with that?

I'm typing in two threads here. I kind of jumped into this one based on the first page, where you were arguing why we got to play the role of Hawke in this game, which is quite a different discussion altogether. That's why my arguments in this thread aren't in the right order.

It's three years, because the game takes place during ten years, which would be when Varric and Cassandra are having their conversation. That would automatically be three years after year seven.

Also, who is the most important person in a country? If I understand you correctly, you think the practice of naming anyone "most important" to be pointless or bound to be wrong. I agree, it is. It's impossible to pick one person and say he or she is more "important" than anyone else. But similar things are done all the time. I used this example in another thread: Who is the world's greatest soccer player? Even though it's impossible to answer (players play in different teams, fill different roles, etc.), it's being done all the time. And even though it's impossible to get it right, it's not really wrong either. I can't remember who got the golden shoe last year, I think it was Messi. He's a great soccer player. He could be considered the greatest there is. You can't really prove people who consider him to be the greatest wrong, but you can of course still disagree.

Some people would consider Obama to be the most important man in the US (especially since a lot of people consider him to be the most powerful man in the world). He holds executive power in the world's largest economy, as well as being Commander in Chief of the world's strongest military forces. You can't prove he isn't the most important man in the US, even if you can disagree. I'm not saying that he is "the most important" man in the US, but I'm saying that through a certain perspective, he is. Same thing goes for Hawke. If Cassandra is right, and as I said, we're missing out on a ton of information here, then Hawke would be considered the most important character in Thedas (at that time).

Also note that I don't think this is entirely subjective, it's more a matter of perspective. I'm not saying that anyone could be "the most important man" somewhere. If you're looking at it through a "everyone is a part of the whole", then everyone would have to agree that no one is really more important than anyone else. However, if you're using that perspective and try to disprove the statement we're arguing here, then why bother? It's obviously false.

Time should also be taken into consideration. It's unlikely that Hawke will affect the world more than for instance Andraste. Still, at the end of the game, Hawke can affect the world around him more than any other people (again, assuming Cassandra is correct). Who is the most important? It comes down to perspective. Messi has been named the greatest soccer player in the world. Is he greater than Pelé? Well, he is right now. It depends on your perspective.

Should no statements such as "Hawke will be the most important character in the world of Dragon Age" be made, just because they are false when seen through certain perspecitves? Of course not. Then we'd have to stop communicating entirely.

And yes, it comes down to whether Cassandra is right or not. What is the point in arguing this? We don't know anything about the state of affairs. There are no arguments for and against that can have any relevance, since they will all be based on imperfect knowledge of the game world. I don't have a particular wish to see Hawke as being the most important character in Thedas, but all I'm saying is that it can't be disproven.

[ThomasBlaine]

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

There has yet to be an argument against that having real significance outside of the Wounded Coast that has managed to be convincing.

Give me a convincing argument that anything he does have a real significance outside of the Wounded Coast.

Perhaps you noticed the mention in the game of war breaking out between the Circles and the Tamplars outside of the Wounded Coast?

[Edit] On second thought, rather than risk wasting more time citing things from inside the game that address the arguments Thomas keeps making, time to feed my block list one more morsel.

Heh, you're quick, but my own -relatively objective- standpoint on that has obviously been that Hawke had practically nothing to do with the Teplar-Mage war, and I have yet to see that convincingly disputed. Anything else?

[barryl89]

Hawke made sure neither of the big bads ended up slaughtering EVERYONE in Kirkwall.

Don't believe they could have? That is your opinion. But Bartrand and his guards showed the influence of the lyrium. Whats to say that Meridith couldn't have driven the entire city mad. Also if your one of the people linking the idol with the darkspawn... could she have created a new breed of darkspawn?

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

I'm typing in two threads here. I kind of jumped into this one based on the first page, where you were arguing why we got to play the role of Hawke in this game, which is quite a different discussion altogether. That's why my arguments in this thread aren't in the right order.

It's three years, because the game takes place during ten years, which would be when Varric and Cassandra are having their conversation. That would automatically be three years after year seven.

Also, who is the most important person in a country? If I understand you correctly, you think the practice of naming anyone "most important" to be pointless or bound to be wrong. I agree, it is. It's impossible to pick one person and say he or she is more "important" than anyone else. But similar things are done all the time. I used this example in another thread: Who is the world's greatest soccer player? Even though it's impossible to answer (players play in different teams, fill different roles, etc.), it's being done all the time. And even though it's impossible to get it right, it's not really wrong either. I can't remember who got the golden shoe last year, I think it was Messi. He's a great soccer player. He could be considered the greatest there is. You can't really prove people who consider him to be the greatest wrong, but you can of course still disagree.

Some people would consider Obama to be the most important man in the US (especially since a lot of people consider him to be the most powerful man in the world). He holds executive power in the world's largest economy, as well as being Commander in Chief of the world's strongest military forces. You can't prove he isn't the most important man in the US, even if you can disagree. I'm not saying that he is "the most important" man in the US, but I'm saying that through a certain perspective, he is. Same thing goes for Hawke. If Cassandra is right, and as I said, we're missing out on a ton of information here, then Hawke would be considered the most important character in Thedas (at that time).

DLCs aside, the end of the game is the end of the game, and the game spans 7-8 years. It's my personal assessment that Laidlaw exaggerated/simplified this during press-releases, and until we get reliable word that those "remaining" years are to be added in a DLC or sequel, I don't see how that constitutes anything but vague speculation.

Realistically, the most "important" person in a country would be the one with the most objective influence on the overall populace, which certainly isn't any official politician. or possible to determine. or Hawke.
Your comparison with "the greatest soccor player" doesn't hold water. Anyone could name the objective "champion" of a skill or practice through contest and comparison of results, while "importance" is a much more abstract and flexible size, akin to "influence" and "power".

When the figurative "god" of a realm explicitly states that any one individual is the single most important one, it should be obvious. With Hawke it's barely plausible, even on a hyopthetic level.

And yes, the discussion we're having right now has been my point throughout the entire thread. I don't see why you wouldn't think so, aside from the vague title.  think of it as "why the hell is hawke supposed to be so important?" not "why the hell is hawke the main character?"

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[ThomasBlaine]

barryl89 wrote...

Hawke made sure neither of the big bads ended up slaughtering EVERYONE in Kirkwall.

Don't believe they could have? That is your opinion. But Bartrand and his guards showed the influence of the lyrium. Whats to say that Meridith couldn't have driven the entire city mad. Also if your one of the people linking the idol with the darkspawn... could she have created a new breed of darkspawn?

eeh, now you're just speculating off-topic.

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

DLCs aside, the end of the game is the end of the game, and the game spans 7-8 years. It's my personal assessment that Laidlaw exaggerated/simplified this during press-releases, and until we get reliable word that those "remaining" years are to be added in a DLC or sequel, I don't see how that constitutes anything but vague speculation.

Realistically, the most "important" person in a country would be the one with the most objective influence on the overall populace, which certainly isn't any official politician. or possible to determine. or Hawke.
Your comparison with "the greatest soccor player" doesn't hold water. Anyone could name the objective "champion" of a skill or practice through contest and comparison of results, while "importance" is a much more abstract and flexible size, akin to "influence" and "power".

When the figural "god" of a realm explicitly states that any one individual is the single most important one, it should be obvious. With Hawke it's barely plausible, even on a hyopthetic level.

And yes, the discussion we're having right now has been my point throughout the entire thread. I don't see why you wouldn't think so, aside from the vague title.  think of it as "why the hell is hawke supposed to be so important?" not "why the hell is hawke the main character?"

Power is being measured, and people are being named the most powerful in the world. The difficulty of naming a great soccer player serves to show that different perspectives of quality leads to different interpretations of who is most important on a soccer field. Try to find any field where there someone is unanimously agreed to be the greatest/best. Possibly athletics, track and field, I guess. As soon as something has several factors in which you measure success, you'll find differing opinions.

Hawke is important because, due to his position with the parties of a continent spanning conflict, he can affect the lives of a huge part of the population. This is underlined by the fact that one of those parties consist of mages, the closest things there is to artillery in Thedas. It more than qualifies for your standard of influencing populace. If you don't think he has that position, fine. We have an indication that he does, and no indication that he doesn't, but we barely have any information at all. You can choose to interpret the information available differently if you so choose, and assume that the announced ten years of the game are seven years that have been rounded up to ten, that Cassandra and Varric have no idea of what they're talking about. That's not proof against the statement, however.

Since a "god" of the realm has stated that Hawke is the most important character, isn't it kind of odd to then argue that the obvious way of interpreting why Hawke is important is wrong, and that it should be obvious why Hawke is important?

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

Power is being measured, and people are being named the most powerful in the world. The difficulty of naming a great soccer player serves to show that different perspectives of quality leads to different interpretations of who is most important on a soccer field. Try to find any field where there someone is unanimously agreed to be the greatest/best. Possibly athletics, track and field, I guess. As soon as something has several factors in which you measure success, you'll find differing opinions.

Hawke is important because, due to his position with the parties of a continent spanning conflict, he can affect the lives of a huge part of the population.

Since a "god" of the realm has stated that Hawke is the most important character, isn't it kind of odd to then argue that the obvious way of interpreting why Hawke is important is wrong, and that it should be obvious why Hawke is important?

Now you're just talking bull**** and semantics, as long as there are actual factors to take into account, a definete "superior" can be measured, opinions are completely irrelevant. The only reason it's so hard to name a "best" soccor player is because there's a ****load of them, and they don't vary enough in terms of skill that anyone would accept calling themselves "inferior".

Ok, then who is currently the most powerful person in the world? (mind that being called something by the press doesn't make it objectively true.)

How do you claim Hawke has any special influence with either mages or templars?

See, it's the dysjunction between what "god"(coughLaidlawcough) says, and what is evident, that I question.
If "god" states something that should be obvious, but which obviously isn't true, why not question it?

And how do you measure power? If you're playing at electricity I'll have to assume you're being deliberately dumb.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 07:21 .

[Aldandil]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Now you're just talking bull**** and semantics, as long as there are actual factors to take into account, a definete "superior" can be measured, opinions are completely irrelevant. The only reason it's so hard to name a "best" soccor player is because there's a ****load of them, and they don't vary enough in terms of skill that anyone would accept calling themselves "inferior".

Oh? then who is currently the most powerful person it the world? (mind that being called something by the press doesn't make it objectively true.)

How do you claim Hawke has any special influence with either mages or templars?

See, it's the dysjunction between what "god"(coughLaidlawcough) says, and what is evident, that I question.
If "god" states something that should be obvious, but which obviously isn't true, why not question it?

And how do you measure power? If you're playing at electricity I'll have to assume you're being deliberately dumb.

The special influence is stated in the epilogue, the Champion of Kirkwall standing with either side at the beginning of the rebellion. If the epilogue is accurate, Hawke qualifies as the most important. If not, then he doesn't. We can't prove it either way. Feel free to go for your own fanfic, and I'll go with mine.

How do you measure power? There are plenty of ways of doing it. The fact that your way of measuring power rules out a lot of the people on the list below, where people clearly weighed factors differently. Apparently, several factors do make perspective important when trying to determine who is the most superlative...

http://www.forbes.co...r-09-intro.html

So being called something by the press doesn't make it true but being called something by you does? I think we're done here.

[ThomasBlaine]

Aldandil wrote...

The special influence is stated in the epilogue, the Champion of Kirkwall standing with either side at the beginning of the rebellion. If the epilogue is accurate, Hawke qualifies as the most important. If not, then he doesn't. We can't prove it either way. Feel free to go for your own fanfic, and I'll go with mine.

How do you measure power? There are plenty of ways of doing it. The fact that your way of measuring power rules out a lot of the people on the list below, where people clearly weighed factors differently. Apparently, several factors do make perspective important when trying to determine who is the most superlative...

http://www.forbes.co...r-09-intro.html

So being called something by the press doesn't make it true but being called something by you does? I think we're done here.

Hah, we're just getting started. Please quote the part of the Epilogue you're referencing, because most of that simply sounds like your own take on the ending.

Like I said, you can't measure power definetely, which they pretty much state on the site you're linking to, only they define it by imperfect dimensions to make it possible, to roughly determine power by those standards.
Besides, we're talking about importance. Not the same thing.

Also, please realise the difference in defining absolutes in the real world, and in a created fictional landscape.

Again, how do you suppose Hawke could influence the templars and/or mages? gimme something specific please.

And stop trying to invoke oneliner-dela-exit. It's an overused drama tool, and it really doesn't work in real life

Edit: Seriously, leaving on a note like that to save face is just juvenile, and I'm 15.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 07 avril 2011 - 08:11 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Well, anyone else?

[Parrk]

FemHawke as protagonist for every Bio Game!

Seriously, I am willing to bet that she could accomplish that most critical of tasks that FemShep has failed repeatedly at....namely romancing Tali.

[Jkol1]

Both Meredith and Orsino take a dive into the deep end of the crazy pool by the end of the story. Both sides have legitimate concerns but these concerns are easily waved off as the rant of a lunatic/criminal.

Hawke is a popular figure that to all appearances is not crazy. He is a celebrity for his victory over the Arishok, deservedly or not. His participation on either side grants a legitimacy to that cause because it is no longer just the brainchild of criminals and crazy people.

Without Hawke, mages in other circles can write off Kirkwall as deserving it or as tragic victims of an insane Templar. They don't have to worry because they don't deserve it and their Templars are reaonable. Kirkwall ends as another tragic footnote in the miserable history of circle mages.

With Hawke present, they have to face one of two realities:
1) Escaped mages reveal that Some of the mages didn't deserve their treatment. Playing by the rules are no guarantee.
2) Kirkwall's circle was annulled by a rational person for the sake of personal belief or political expediency. This person (Hawke) is still out there.

People are beings of self interest. Ander's best efforts aside, it is only Hawke's actions that can show mages elsewhere that they have a personal stake in the issue. Everyone else is either dead, crazy, criminal or Cullen and easy to dismiss/ignore.

Does Hawke feel this influential when he gets out of bed one fateful morning to play nursemaid to Meredith and Orsino? Probably not. Wanting to be important, looking/feeling important and actually being important are very different things.

<insert sheer speculation>
Granting just enough legitimacy to an event to cause an isolated squabble in an isolated city state to blow up into the biggest religious schism Thedas has seen in a thousand years right when the Qunari are poised to re-invade now that their sacred tome is safe again... Sounds pretty influential to me. Nobody said Hawke had to be important on purpose...

[ThomasBlaine]

Jkol1 wrote...

People are beings of self interest. Ander's best efforts aside, it is only Hawke's actions that can show mages elsewhere that they have a personal stake in the issue. Everyone else is either dead, crazy, criminal or Cullen and easy to dismiss/ignore.

Heh, good one. I gotta admit, Cullen really pulled himself together between games, he doesn't deserve all the bad attention...
Anyway, can you tell me specifically why Hawkes name would mean so much to the mages and/or templars? Sure, he's a celebrity in Kirkwall for taking down an 8-foot oxhead before anyone else could, but that doesn't make him an international hero in the slightest.

[KyleOrdrum]

I figured it out!...Hawke is the most important person in thedas because he can customize his armor and moves twice as fast as anyone in the first game (except for a few dual-wielders).

Either that, or they decided to hype the game up given the success of the first and went too far...

[ThomasBlaine]

KyleOrdrum wrote...

I figured it out!...Hawke is the most important person in thedas because he can customize his armor and moves twice as fast as anyone in the first game (except for a few dual-wielders).

Either that, or they decided to hype the game up given the success of the first and went too far...

Haha, I'm inclined to agree.

[Jkol1]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Jkol1 wrote...

People are beings of self interest. Ander's best efforts aside, it is only Hawke's actions that can show mages elsewhere that they have a personal stake in the issue. Everyone else is either dead, crazy, criminal or Cullen and easy to dismiss/ignore.

Heh, good one. I gotta admit, Cullen really pulled himself together between games, he doesn't deserve all the bad attention...
Anyway, can you tell me specifically why Hawkes name would mean so much to the mages and/or templars? Sure, he's a celebrity in Kirkwall for taking down an 8-foot oxhead before anyone else could, but that doesn't make him an international hero in the slightest.

I always got the impression that the Qunari were the boogey men of modern day Thedas. Sure mages are dangerous but most of them are locked in a tower or live in far off Tevinter. Darkspawn are dangerous but 5 blights over a millenia is not that much. Most importantly they are threats that Thedas can comprehend and traditionally overcome.

The Qunari came out of nowhere and were majorly effective. They have superior organization and vastly superior military technology (Gunpowder/Canons and other poison gasses). The great exalted marches that have overcome every obstacle ever faced by chantry driven society resulted in a stalemate at best. There are implications in Fenris' quest line that the entire Tevinter - Qunari war is over a single island (where Fenris' escaped) and that this is because the Qunari only want that island. Though that may be Fenris' opinion.

The Qunari are open heretics who have openly taunted the Chantry for something like 300 years. Zealous, militant religious organizations do not put up with that because they are tolerant, they put up with that because they have to.

The victory over the Arishok is a big deal because it is a moral victory and a victory for morale against an enemy where victories are few and far between. If war breaks out between Thedas and the Qunari do you want Hawke, the one man/woman in generations who has bested a Qunari Arishok in combat or some Templar that has read about them in a book?

But even then, he doesn't really have to be important. My point was that he gets extra credit for being sane. If Orsino the elven abomination says that circle mages are being abused people will assume that the Templars were probably right. If Hawke the everyman/everywoman who incidently saved Kirkwall from the Qunari says they are being abused he is harder to dismiss off hand.