323 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasBlaine]

Well haven't this gone off topic?

Listen, no one is disputing that Hawke plays at least a small part in the great plan or whatever, but no matter how many or few apostates he saves, no matter that he kills another mad Templar on the way out of Kirkwall or sticks around to dig them, no matter whether the Arishok dies or sails off with Isabela, leaving Kirkwall in ruins, Hawke simply doesn't live up to his reputation.

Sure, he's a hero on the smaller scale, brilliant fighter and prime adventurer(if he ever gets his ass out of the city), but all this, at best, simply makes him the savior of Kirkwall, a local hero.

The only -ONLY- thing he ever does for sure which has any real significance outside of the Wounded Coast, is making sure Anders stays in town long enough to decide to nuke the chantry, and that's assuming Anders can't or won't do it anyway, whether Hawke is there or not.

How does this POSSIBLY justify his reputation as legendary champion of the weak throughout all of Thedas, or Laidlaw's statements that he is the in-game universe's most essential character?

The Warden fulfilled his/her function as one of the Grey within Ferelden, and was credited exactly as due, no more. The only reason I compared them was to exemplify how out of margin Hawke's supposed importance is. Please leave him/her out of the discussion for now.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 07:26 .

[jimmy_smith]

I don't think the man/woman that catalyst both the circle and templar uprising all across thedas is unimportant.

In game codex, the greatest threat in thedas history is qunary invasion, not the blight.

according by Cassanda(or someone else I'm not sure)
the circle/templar uprising is the next greatest threat since qunary invasion.

The event that Hawke sparked is more serious than the blight.

[Stegoceras]

jimmy_smith wrote...

I don't think the man/woman that catalyst both the circle and templar uprising all across thedas is unimportant.

In game codex, the greatest threat in thedas history is qunary invasion, not the blight.

according by Cassanda(or someone else I'm not sure)
the circle/templar uprising is the next greatest threat since qunary invasion.

The event that Hawke sparked is more serious than the blight.

The question you should ask yourself though is whether he "sparks" it, from the get-go you hear people telling you the Mages and Templars have a very troubled relation in Kirkwall and it is hinted Meredith wants nothing more than an excuse to wipe all the mages out and to me it seemed that all Hawke did was go along with the flow, I could harldy call him a catalyst in the whole situation. Anders is a catalyst, Hawke feels like he is just his sidekick.

All Hawke amounted to be in the end was an (albeit it skilled) errand boy.

[AngelicMachinery]

The Warden is gone, and I say good riddance. Hawke has to go too, I need another hero that's built up from nothing for the game to be enjoyable.

[JelleSlaets]

Seeing the direction EA took with DA2, I can already predict how the DA3 plot will be.

It will start with a cutscene, where a swashbuckling duelist rogue with giant boobies is being dragged through a corridor by 2 guards and put in a chair. She is then interviewed by Cassandra: "We have heard the story from Varric, but we think he left something out. Now you tell us all you know about Hawke."

The game will then take place in Kirkwall for 10 years, fetching stuff,.. well, you know, the usual.

Then in the end, they will be a cliffhanger as in a 30 second cinematic, we discover that it was actually Varric that stole the Lyrium Artifact and the Qunari Tome and escaped the palace, *evil grin*, and then there is a fade-out, credits role, ...

And the good news is, because everything is already done, they just have to do some bugfixes on the current one, change a few dialog lines, maybe add 2 caves... nah, that would be pushing it. And it is ready to ship.

So yeah, Hawke will definatly play a main role in DA3.

[Elanareon]

He started the Mage/Templar thing which will chagnge Thedas.. Good concept, bad delivery...

[ThomasBlaine]

jimmy_smith wrote...

I don't think the man/woman that catalyst both the circle and templar uprising all across thedas is unimportant.

In game codex, the greatest threat in thedas history is qunary invasion, not the blight.

according by Cassanda(or someone else I'm not sure)
the circle/templar uprising is the next greatest threat since qunary invasion.

The event that Hawke sparked is more serious than the blight.

Can you quote the game codex? Because that doesn't make any sense. The Arishok didn't "invade Thedas", he camped out in Kirkwall because Isabela's theft prevented him from going home with what small army he had, and then he eventually just got fed up with people's stupidity, snapped, and attacked the Kirkwall government. The second he had the book he would've sailed home, the only reason you have to fight him at all is because he demands to take Isabela with him. At no point was this any threat to Thedas at large, if even Kirkwall.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 09:50 .

[ThomasBlaine]

JelleSlaets wrote...

So yeah, Hawke will definatly play a main role in DA3.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Why are you even mouthing off ridiculous speculation as if it was somehow intelligent, much less true?

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 10:12 .

[Taura-Tierno]

I don't think it matters that somebody else might have taken Hawke's place if he hadn't been there. Hawke was there. Hawke did trigger certain events in the Deep Roads. Hawke did stop the Qunari invasion. Hawke did contribute (willingly or not) to the mage uprising in Kirkwall. Hawke did play a major part in the uprising, either supporting the mages or the templars.

What might've been had Hawke not done those things isn't as importent. Sure, somebody else might've done those, or several different people might have. But they didn't. Just like we don't say "hey, somebody else would've done that, if [insert important historical figure] hadn't done it".

Hawke was there and did everything, that's why he/she is important.

(if the Warden hadn't existed, another warden might have accompanied Alistair to the tower and survived Ostagar, and that warden might've become the Hero of Ferelden. As such, the Warden is simply unimportant, and doesn't deserve any credit.)

Modifié par Taura-Tierno, 03 avril 2011 - 09:57 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Stegoceras wrote...

All Hawke amounted to be in the end was an (albeit it skilled) errand boy.

Total disagreement. Hawke helps/condemns a hell lotta people, and makes quite a few radical changes in Kirkwall and the surrounding landscape. He certainly does make a difference, just nothing that justifies the hype he's getting.

[Galad22]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

(if the Warden hadn't existed, another warden might have accompanied Alistair to the tower and survived Ostagar, and that warden might've become the Hero of Ferelden. As such, the Warden is simply unimportant, and doesn't deserve any credit.)

Since Darkspawn chronicles is direct contradiction to this. This simply isn't true.

Edit. I agree with op, Hawke just isn't important.

I don't like her much either, so I hope we won't be seeing her again.

Modifié par Galad22, 03 avril 2011 - 10:03 .

[ThomasBlaine]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Hawke was there and did everything, that's why he/she is important.

It's not an issue that someone else could just as well have replaced Hawke, the problem is that Hawke could not have been there at all, and the result would likely have been exactly the same. He contributed nothing essential to the start of the war, so he actually played a completely superflous part, if one at all.

[Byth]

I think the reason Hawke is so important is because of all the tales they tell about him. I mean, the reoccurring theme during the interrogation is that Hawke never really planned any of what happened, he just reacted to the situation.

[Edli]

Anexity wrote...

Hawke was less important in that he/she didn't defeat a huge evil. But DA2 wasn't about fighting a huge evil like DAO. It was about Hawke's rise from nothing to riches (and possibly beyond).

But why should I care about Hawke's desire for more money. Maybe it wasn't epic but it wasn't even noble or heroic either. Just a selfish cause, it's like playing GTA.

[ThomasBlaine]

Byth wrote...

I think the reason Hawke is so important is because of all the tales they tell about him. I mean, the reoccurring theme during the interrogation is that Hawke never really planned any of what happened, he just reacted to the situation.

Can you elaborate?

[MrTijger]

Byth wrote...

I think the reason Hawke is so important is because of all the tales they tell about him. I mean, the reoccurring theme during the interrogation is that Hawke never really planned any of what happened, he just reacted to the situation.

Exactly. Thedas has no masscommunication means so word of mouth is the only way people hear about events, clearly the word that has been spread from Kirkwall is that its all the Champion' doing, that he freed or slew all the mages, that he sides with the Templars or opposed them.

And yes, people twist stories to their own ends, clearly Cassandra has had the tinfoil hat version delivered to her as evidenced by her conversation with Varric at the end of Act 1.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

I'm not going to play imaginary novel character or imaginary predefined BioWare protagonist again. If they intend to make me the audience and novel reviewer for their fairy tale again, I'll not buy DA 3 and any BioWare rpg titles in future.

[ThomasBlaine]

This is actually a very good point. That in and of itself, doesn't make him all that important, but it really explains why everyone in-game would think so anyway.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 10:25 .

[MrTijger]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I'm not going to play imaginary novel character or imaginary predefined BioWare protagonist again. If they intend to make me the audience and novel reviewer for their fairy tale again, I'll not buy DA 3 and any BioWare rpg titles in future.

Ah, so you want an RPG with a real historic figure at its core then?

Dude, all RPG's are essentially fairy tales, some are dark, some are light but they are all, wait for it....FANTASY!

[ThomasBlaine]

MrTijger wrote...

Ah, so you want an RPG with a real historic figure at its core then?

Dude, all RPG's are essentially fairy tales, some are dark, some are light but they are all, wait for it....FANTASY!

I think the point was along the lines of "I want to play my own actual main character of an actually engaging story".
And I concur with passion.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 10:32 .

[Byth]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Byth wrote...

I think the reason Hawke is so important is because of all the tales they tell about him. I mean, the reoccurring theme during the interrogation is that Hawke never really planned any of what happened, he just reacted to the situation.

Can you elaborate?

I can't fully without going into spoilers, but the story the chantry seekers originally had were "Hawke, Anders and his other companions came to Kirkwall together to overthrow the chantry". In reality Hawke was just some refugee who happened to find himself in conflicts he didn't create(like the end of acts 2&3), but Varric pretty much started adding things to tales and that's how he's so legendary.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

MrTijger wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I'm not going to play imaginary novel character or imaginary predefined BioWare protagonist again. If they intend to make me the audience and novel reviewer for their fairy tale again, I'll not buy DA 3 and any BioWare rpg titles in future.

Ah, so you want an RPG with a real historic figure at its core then?

Dude, all RPG's are essentially fairy tales, some are dark, some are light but they are all, wait for it....FANTASY!

I want to be active actor with solid character information so I know what role and character I get to play. Not BioWare hero who I  have to dig out for more info. If I'm not the hero than I would rather not role-play at all. Role-play is about assuming character role. Not assuming audience role and study how well the novel is.

Edit BB code error

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[Stegoceras]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

All Hawke amounted to be in the end was an (albeit it skilled) errand boy.

Total disagreement. Hawke helps/condemns a hell lotta people, and makes quite a few radical changes in Kirkwall and the surrounding landscape. He certainly does make a difference, just nothing that justifies the hype he's getting.

I'd say they are forced upon him oppossed to him making the choices. Isabela causes the Qunari uprising, Anders the Mage/Templar war. All the character does is solve the mess they make (or that of  any other faction/person/thing). Other people decide what Hawke does and when he finally gets to make his one big choice it makes no difference at all what he does.

[ThomasBlaine]

Byth wrote...

I can't fully without going into spoilers, but the story the chantry seekers originally had were "Hawke, Anders and his other companions came to Kirkwall together to overthrow the chantry". In reality Hawke was just some refugee who happened to find himself in conflicts he didn't create(like the end of acts 2&3), but Varric pretty much started adding things to tales and that's how he's so legendary.

I very much agree, that makes perfect sense and pretty much explains my issue.

[MrTijger]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

I think the point was along the lines of "I want to play my own actual main character of an actually engaging story".
And I concur with passion.

I feel DA 2 delivered that for me, more than quite a few games I've played over the years.