323 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasBlaine]

Stegoceras wrote...

I'd say they are forced upon him oppossed to him making the choices. Isabela causes the Qunari uprising, Anders the Mage/Templar war. All the character does is solve the mess they make (or that of  any other faction/person/thing). Other people decide what Hawke does and when he finally gets to make his one big choice it makes no difference at all what he does.

True, but nummerous bloodbending apostates and innocent mages would be free to terrorize the people or killed for sins they never commited if not for Hawke.
It doesn't show much in the main storyline but S/he does help a lot of people throughout the game who would have been dead or worse otherwise.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 03 avril 2011 - 10:39 .

[MrTijger]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I want to be active actor with solid character information so I know what role and character I get to play. Not BioWare hero who I  have to dig out for more info. If I'm not the hero than I would rather not role-play at all. Role-play is about assuming character role. Not assuming audience role and study how well the novel is.

Edit BB code error

I'm sorry, but have you considered trying becoming a method actor?

Maybe it's me but I have no issue putting myself into Hawke' shoes, Hawke' choices are what *I* would chose and yeah, at the end of the day there's only choices that Bioware gives you but every story is fully written beforehand for you, all you get to do is pretend its not.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

MrTijger wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

I think the point was along the lines of "I want to play my own actual main character of an actually engaging story".
And I concur with passion.

I feel DA 2 delivered that for me, more than quite a few games I've played over the years.

Hawke is your actual main character? So what happen to you then? Hello Hawke, are you alive or dead now?

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 avril 2011 - 10:42 .

[F-C]

i think too many people overlook the subtle things in the story that link the warden and champion together.

anyways, i guess i shouldnt expect anything less. these forums seem filled with little more than mindless rage posts these days anyways.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

MrTijger wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I want to be active actor with solid character information so I know what role and character I get to play. Not BioWare hero who I  have to dig out for more info. If I'm not the hero than I would rather not role-play at all. Role-play is about assuming character role. Not assuming audience role and study how well the novel is.

Edit BB code error

I'm sorry, but have you considered trying becoming a method actor?

Maybe it's me but I have no issue putting myself into Hawke' shoes, Hawke' choices are what *I* would chose and yeah, at the end of the day there's only choices that Bioware gives you but every story is fully written beforehand for you, all you get to do is pretend its not.

First of all, do you know anything about Hawke's background? Do you know who Miriam and Old Barlin? Do you know what's your bank account in Kirkwall?  Do you know what lead your mother to run and marry Malcom in the first place? What about your relationship with Amell the hero of Ferelden?

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[Taura-Tierno]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Byth wrote...

I think the reason Hawke is so important is because of all the tales they tell about him. I mean, the reoccurring theme during the interrogation is that Hawke never really planned any of what happened, he just reacted to the situation.

Can you elaborate?

Byth said it better than me. It doesn't matter that Hawke might have been unnecessary. We don't know what would have happened without Hawke. Things might've gone down the same way anyway. But since Hawke was there, that's what people will see. They'll tell stories about Hawke dueling and defeating the Arishok (if that's what you did), or about Hawke returning from the Deep Roads and making a fortune for him/herself. They'll talk about Hawke's actions during the uprising, because Hawke was there, not because the outcome might've been the same if he/she hadn't been there. 

"History is written by the victors", right? Hawke may or may not have been a victor, but the average Ferelden or Free Marcher or Olaisian will not care to investigate the truth behind Hawke's story. Stories get exaggerated when they spread, more so in a world without the Internet, I would assume. Since everyone have heard the exaggerated stories about Hawke, and most people don't care to find out the truth, that's what they'll believe. And that's why Hawke will be a legend - because that's how the story goes. 

Cassandra challenged the stories and wanted the truth. She got it, and it was quite clear that Hawke wasn't as essential as she first thought. That's the beauty of the story, imo. Hawke was a nobody, but he managed to become a legend. 

He is a legend because that's how people tell his story. Because he is a legend, he is an important person in Thedas. People will support him (or oppose him) in whatever he does, simply because of that legend. That his actions may, in truth, have been for nothing does not matter.

[ThomasBlaine]

F-C wrote...

i think too many people overlook the subtle things in the story that link the warden and champion together.

anyways, i guess i shouldnt expect anything less. these forums seem filled with little more than mindless rage posts these days anyways.

This is NOT a rage-thread, it's right THERE in the OP, why the hell do I see your post in my thread at all?
Any "subtle links between the Warden and Champion" are as close to irrelevant as could possibly be and has nothing to do with the thread anyway.

[silver-crescent]

Hawke was important in DA2 - got rid of the qunari, helped trigger the rebellion, etc. However I'm pretty sure that's not all that made him the most important person in Thedas - let's not foget there's still a lot of DLC, and possible EP/DA3 on the way.

[MrTijger]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Hawke is your actual main character? So what happen to you then? Hello Hawke, are you alive or dead now?

I have no idea. I also have no idea where my Warden is. How is that relevant?

[ThomasBlaine]

silver-crescent wrote...

Hawke was important in DA2 - got rid of the qunari, helped trigger the rebellion, etc. However I'm pretty sure that's not all that made him the most important person in Thedas - let's not foget there's still a lot of DLC, and possible EP/DA3 on the way.

That would have been my own assumption had Varric not finished the game with "That's the whole story" and "That is all there is to it".

[Sacred_Fantasy]

MrTijger wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Hawke is your actual main character? So what happen to you then? Hello Hawke, are you alive or dead now?

I have no idea. I also have no idea where my Warden is. How is that relevant?

I know where my warden is. She's already dead and will be remembered forever. 

Edit: Oops forget to mention about relevant:

DA 2 present you the things you have done but you have no knowledge of doing it and yet they don't bother to explain why. How can you act blindly without knowing the reason to do so? Warden I know the beginning I know the ending I know what I do and say. See the difference of what solid player character is?

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Hawke is your actual main character? So what happen to you then? Hello Hawke, are you alive or dead now?

I have no idea. I also have no idea where my Warden is. How is that relevant?

I know where my warden is. She's already dead and will be remembered forever. 

Edit: Oops forget to mention about relevant:

DA 2 present you the things you have done but you have no knowledge of doing it and yet they don't bother to explain why. How can you act blindly without knowing the reason to do so? Warden I know the beginning I know the ending I know what I do and say. See the difference of what solid player character is?

I don't get it.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I don't get it.

Which part you don't get it?

[AngelicMachinery]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I don't get it.

Which part you don't get it?

...  most of it?

[silver-crescent]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Hawke was important in DA2 - got rid of the qunari, helped trigger the rebellion, etc. However I'm pretty sure that's not all that made him the most important person in Thedas - let's not foget there's still a lot of DLC, and possible EP/DA3 on the way.

That would have been my own assumption had Varric not finished the game with "That's the whole story" and "That is all there is to it".

Well but the Hawke's story doesn't end with Varric's tale, what matters now is what happens afterwards.

[MrTijger]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I know where my warden is. She's already dead and will be remembered forever. 

Edit: Oops forget to mention about relevant:

DA 2 present you the things you have done but you have no knowledge of doing it and yet they don't bother to explain why. How can you act blindly without knowing the reason to do so? Warden I know the beginning I know the ending I know what I do and say. See the difference of what solid player character is?

My Warden isnt dead...well, not as far as I know anyway. Actually, one of my Wardens is dead, but the other 6 are alive. IT IS A GAME. It's not a movie with a set ending, its not a book that ends always the same way, it ends how you decide it ends pretty much.

No, I dont see that because for one, what you hear at the beginning is not the ending, Cassandra THINKS she knows what happened when in reality she's heard a story that is nowhere near the truth. Second, that manner of storytelling is widely known as a framed narrative and its quite useful and fun, I think.

Modifié par MrTijger, 03 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I don't get it.

Which part you don't get it?

...  most of it?

How about we start with Miriam and Old Barlin first? You know the letter which you received periodically? It's obvious they're quite closed to you, otherwise they won't be sending you their letter. Now tell me what do you know about them? You are asked to checked your bank account in Kirkwall to receive funding from some prince of Starkhaven. What did you do? What is your bank account in Kirkwall? etc,,,

Wait... Let me help you. Don't bother to answer. Hawke knew and did all this things. You don't. 


Hawke was at the Gallows on that day. He knew what's actually happen. He knew why he's been attacked despite his support for the mages. You don't. Neither do I. Because we only hear it from Varric. How do we knows he's telling the truth? The whole story doesn't make any sense because If you're the actual Hawke you won't be trying to figure  out the truth. You know what happen to yourself. But you don't. You are the audience. You are not the actor. You just imagine what if Hawke do this and that.   

In Origins, I am the warden. There is no exaggeration. There is no third person narrator. My story is accurate. I am historical figure who people remember as long as it can be. No one argue what I did. Hawke on the other hand is merely a legend which everyone knows, had been twisted here and there. Hawke story is arguable as we are doing right now. No one knows the truth. No one takes the story seriously. It's important is as good as bedtime fairy tale. Imagine, the story of Hercules. Who's going to take it seriously compare to the story of Abraham Lincoln? 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[maegi46]

Talk about making absolutely zero sense. Sacred Fantasy wins the Darwin award of 2011.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

MrTijger wrote...
My Warden isnt dead...well, not as far as I know anyway. Actually, one of my Wardens is dead, but the other 6 are alive. IT IS A GAME. It's not a movie with a set ending, its not a book that ends always the same way, it ends how you decide it ends pretty much.

Yes, I have decided I ended the way I want. I also decided one of my warden to enter Eluvian mirror and live happily with Morrigan until his calling. His story ends there. What about Hawke? I can't decide because he's imaginary novel character. He's not flesh character. I only heard it from Varric. I don't know who he truly is.

MrTijger wrote...
No, I dont see that because for one, what you hear at the beginning is not the ending, Cassandra THINKS she knows what happened when in reality she's heard a story that is nowhere near the truth. Second, that manner of storytelling is widely known as a framed narrative and its quite useful and fun, I think.

You are right. That's what Cassandra thinks. How about what do you think as Hawke? Wait you can't because you haven't exist yet.

Frame narrative is widely used and popularized in both movies and novels. It's fun and useful because you are the audience. You have no role. Your focus is the story. But in role-play you are the actor. You live the character. You have emotion tied to the event. You sad because your brother or mother dies not because Varric said, " Look, Carver get squished by the Ogre. You can be sad now. Go ahead and  cry."

It doesn't work that way. Not in my role-play.

[maegi46]

Old Barlin was in DA:O , but you should know this Sacred and you claim to know all there is about the warden. He was in Lothering in the bar you had the showdown with Loghain's guards with. He wanted poison for his traps on his farm. Miriam was the lady that wanted help making health poultices from elfroot you gethered around the town. Ring a bell yet? Since Hawke grew up in Lothering, he KNEW these people as friends and neighbors. Sheesh.

Modifié par maegi46, 04 avril 2011 - 12:04 .

[maegi46]

Scared, stop posting spoilers in a no spoilers thread FFS dude.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

maegi46 wrote...

Talk about making absolutely zero sense. Sacred Fantasy wins the Darwin award of 2011.

Hawke story doesn't make sense if you role-played Hawke character.

[Byth]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

How about we start with Miriam and Old Barlin first? You know the letter which you received periodically? It's obvious they're quite closed to you, otherwise they won't be sending you their letter. Now tell me what do you know about them?

There's similar moments that happens in some of the origins actually.

City Elf: I wake up and some redheaded elf says "Hey cousin, it's your wedding. Y'know the one we've been planning all this time". Wait, who are you? What wedding? Who am I marrying?

Human Noble: My mother introduces me to people I supposedly met though I have little to no knowledge of who they are.

So yeah, origins did that too.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

maegi46 wrote...

Old Barlin was in DA:O , but you should know this Sacred and you claim to know all there is about the warden. He was in Lothering in the bar you had the showdown with Loghain's guards with. He wanted poison for his traps on his farm. Miriam was the lady that wanted help making health poultices from elfroot you gethered around the town. Ring a bell yet? Since Hawke grew up in Lothering, he KNEW these people as friends and neighbors. Sheesh.

My warden knew about Old Barlin in DA O but not my Hawke. My Havwke never encounter those people. That's exactly what I'm trying to say here. Bioware Hawke knew. I don't.

Sorry about the spoiler. It;s hard to explain without it. I'll avoid doing it again. Thanks for the reminder.

Hawke did thing I have no knowledge of doing it and I don't understand why.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Byth wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

How about we start with Miriam and Old Barlin first? You know the letter which you received periodically? It's obvious they're quite closed to you, otherwise they won't be sending you their letter. Now tell me what do you know about them?

There's similar moments that happens in some of the origins actually.

City Elf: I wake up and some redheaded elf says "Hey cousin, it's your wedding. Y'know the one we've been planning all this time". Wait, who are you? What wedding? Who am I marrying?

Human Noble: My mother introduces me to people I supposedly met though I have little to no knowledge of who they are.

So yeah, origins did that too.

At least I know I have friends that I get to see with my own eyes. I experienced the event.  DA 2 I don't see those people at all.