121 réponses à ce sujet

[randName]

@Romantiq : 
At least the mage hawk uses both arms unlike Quagmire.

Ygolnac wrote...

Mage hawke in champion armor has ridicously super macho muscled arms. This is bad design for the lore (mages pass the majority of their time studyng and not excercising), bad becoiuse if you equip a normal robe his arms become normal again, and simply bad visually speacking. There's nothing to do with masculinity and such.

Yes, its just a sign of lazyness using the one-size fits all way of doing games.

Modifié par randName, 11 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[Jim_uk]

BhallSpawn1011 wrote...

Hey im just pointing out that dragon age 2 with hawkes posh british accent is already lacking in masculunity as it is. Sorry if I "offended you" (quotes added for emphasis). I guess there are some ****** like you that don't mind the game having no masculinity. Doesn't surprise me really, that picture suggests that deep down your an asexual nerd with no masculinity that just plays video games. BRING ON THE FLAME WAR!!!!

So the ENGLISH accent is effeminate is it? seriously you have a very strange view of the world.

[FellowerOfOdin]

nijnij wrote...

I call it discrimination against us normal, steroid-free vegetarian geeks.

Uhm, I am a vegetarian and still am pretty beefy. I eat more protein than the average meat eater  and exercise every day...

[Giant ambush beetle]

I agree, Lady Hawke should have had a more muscular body, having twig-arms and participating in a medieval battle never ends well. In meele combat you really need muscle mass and weight, just  look at modern ''fighters'' - there is a reason why female martial art fighters don't have stick arms and a 100lbs fashion model body.
But Bioware cared more about stereotypes than realism. Most female gamers don't want to play muscular female warriors because it wouldn't fit their ideals.

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
I don't think having more muscle mass necessarily means that you're fitter than a thinner person... just a guess.

Lol?

Modifié par The Woldan , 11 avril 2011 - 07:04 .

[Paraxial]

Because men who are seen as more built are generally perceived as more powerful and sexy, just like a slender woman is seen as more attractive and appealing. I eagerly await the posts from ectomorphs, who abstain from exercise, claiming that Male Hawke is on roids because he isn't 'thin'.

When you swing a big sword around for ten years you're bound to get some bulk, regardless of what you're diet may be.

[randName]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Because men who are seen as more built are generally perceived as more powerful and sexy, just like a slender woman is seen as more attractive and appealing. I eagerly await the posts from ectomorphs, who abstain from exercise, claiming that Male Hawke is on roids because he isn't 'thin'.

When you swing a big sword around for ten years you're bound to get some bulk, regardless of what you're diet may be.

That is valid for the Warrior in this case, but hardly for the others given the stat system - though I'd agree that the Rogue aught to be partly strength based, instead of only needed Dex/Cun and some Will/Con.

[Paraxial]

randName wrote...

That is valid for the Warrior in this case, but hardly for the others given the stat system - though I'd agree that the Rogue aught to be partly strength based, instead of only needed Dex/Cun and some Will/Con.

The easiest way to explain this is likely that he is more generally attractive with muscles, and Fem Hawke is generally more attractive when she is thin. Another way to explain it is Hawke's lifestyle doesn't really leave much room for excess fat. Adventuring even if not wearing heavy plate and carrying a large weapon is taxing on the body, Hawke and his/her party travel everywhere by foot and fight relentlessly. Hawke could be defined as a mesomorphic individual as well, meaning the individual has medium bone structure, a heavy torso, broad shoulders, and a thing waist. Meaning with Hawke's lifestyle the way it is, the chances of Hawke's muscle being well defined is pretty good.

But i'm reading too much into this, and i'm bored of this now.

Modifié par Bible Doctor, 11 avril 2011 - 07:25 .

[Dark83]

You can't really do what rogueHawke does in combat without some pretty good strength. He acts more or less like a gymnast, and those dudes are ripped.

[Seena]

randName wrote...

That is valid for the Warrior in this case, but hardly for the others given the stat system - though I'd agree that the Rogue aught to be partly strength based, instead of only needed Dex/Cun and some Will/Con.

Personally I don't think that appearance should be dictated by stats. It's too limiting. Mages (ie "bookinsh" sorts) can be muscular and fit - the two aren't mutally exclusive.  With a stat based system you're tied into a physical type -simply becuse you're limited with points to allocate.

I prefer muscular body types on both genders - wouldn't want to have thin/unfit appearing toons because I opted to play a mage.

[Seena]

Bible Doctor wrote...
]

The easiest way to explain this is likely that he is more generally attractive with muscles, and Fem Hawke is generally more attractive when she is thin. Another way to explain it is Hawke's lifestyle doesn't really leave much room for excess fat. Adventuring even if not wearing heavy plate and carrying a large weapon is taxing on the body, Hawke and his/her party travel everywhere by foot and fight relentlessly. Hawke could be defined as a mesomorphic individual as well, meaning the individual has medium bone structure, a heavy torso, broad shoulders, and a thing waist. Meaning with Hawke's lifestyle the way it is, the chances of Hawke's muscle being well defined is pretty good.

But i'm reading too much into this, and i'm bored of this now.

That is your opinion. MANY here have asked for a more muscular hawke - women as well as men. In fact you only need to refer to the thread asking women what they want in the game.

[randName]

Seena wrote...

randName wrote...

That is valid for the Warrior in this case, but hardly for the others given the stat system - though I'd agree that the Rogue aught to be partly strength based, instead of only needed Dex/Cun and some Will/Con.

Personally I don't think that appearance should be dictated by stats. It's too limiting. Mages (ie "bookinsh" sorts) can be muscular and fit - the two aren't mutally exclusive.  With a stat based system you're tied into a physical type -simply becuse you're limited with points to allocate.

I prefer muscular body types on both genders - wouldn't want to have thin/unfit appearing toons because I opted to play a mage.

I think it should be tied to stats, but they could make a muscular mage effective, as in allow them to use weapons like swords, and make strength/fortitude effective for casting spells - say that the more strength you have the more physical force you can yourself stand against, and thus be able to cast away towards the target. Make more touch based attacks, as in beating people over the head with staves, and not just casting projectiles.

They could also, if they add blend shapes for this, allow you to add/remove visual strength, as to make you more thin or thick than normal, as not all people of the same strength always look the same.

With Rogues they really should add in strength back for Armour penetration, and general damage.

Modifié par randName, 11 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Paraxial]

Seena wrote...

That is your opinion. MANY here have asked for a more muscular hawke - women as well as men. In fact you only need to refer to the thread asking women what they want in the game.

In general thin woman are seen as attractive by the population, this is not my opinion it's fact. I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying that is the world we live in. FemHawke does have muscle mass, but she is not bulky. It is a common misconception that women who lift get large like their male counterparts do, it is untrue. Women tend to get very toned and defined, depending heavily on the bodytype and regiment of course. I think both FemHawke and MaleHawke do a good job of looking like they are in shape without making it look comical.

[randName]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Seena wrote...

That is your opinion. MANY here have asked for a more muscular hawke - women as well as men. In fact you only need to refer to the thread asking women what they want in the game.

In general thin woman are seen as attractive by the population, this is not my opinion it's fact. I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying that is the world we live in. FemHawke does have muscle mass, but she is not bulky. It is a common misconception that women who lift get large like their male counterparts do, it is untrue. Women tend to get very toned and defined, depending heavily on the bodytype and regiment of course. I think both FemHawke and MaleHawke do a good job of looking like they are in shape without making it look comical.

You would get something like the image below, as I posted before.

[smilie]http://tommys.bloggproffs.se/files/2011/02/marit_bj%C3%B6rgen.jpg[/smilie]



[smilie]http://minkamera.blogg.se/images/2010/1262698913-49575_79260439.jpg[/smilie]

Or these are both realistic images of the some professional athlete
(Marit Bjørgen), someone that should fit the endurance demanded for
longer fights, and were the muscles are not built for show, but for
effect (Cross-country skier, currently the best, and as of this year the
woman with most victories within the sport).


Not heroic at all, and Female Warrior Hawk is still ways off.

And I doubt most would find her horribly unattractive, nor would it be a big problem if you didn't need to build strength based characters, as then you would end up with a slimmer build, esp. if you could tweak that a bit on your own in CC (as you can with your neck currently, albeit often to a laughable lack of change).

Modifié par randName, 11 avril 2011 - 07:50 .

[Seena]

Bible Doctor wrote...

In general thin woman are seen as attractive by the population, this is not my opinion it's fact. I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying that is the world we live in. FemHawke does have muscle mass, but she is not bulky. It is a common misconception that women who lift get large like their male counterparts do, it is untrue. Women tend to get very toned and defined, depending heavily on the bodytype and regiment of course. I think both FemHawke and MaleHawke do a good job of looking like they are in shape without making it look comical.

Sorry-  your generalization of "the population" is just wrong. (You've obviously never lived in East Harlem - thin women are considered sickly and too "breakable"). 

And I don't believe that if you present to the gaming community a graphic of a female warrior in two forms -  one with noodle arms, a wasp wait, and stick legs - and one with some well defined muscle - that "in general" the former would be selected as the favorite.

In my  two playthroughs with a Fem Hawke (warrior rogue)  she  had no defineable muscle mass what so ever. None. Nada. Aveline does - Hawke does not.

Modifié par Seena, 11 avril 2011 - 07:56 .

[Seena]

randName wrote...

Bible Doctor wrote...

Seena wrote...

That is your opinion. MANY here have asked for a more muscular hawke - women as well as men. In fact you only need to refer to the thread asking women what they want in the game.

In general thin woman are seen as attractive by the population, this is not my opinion it's fact. I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying that is the world we live in. FemHawke does have muscle mass, but she is not bulky. It is a common misconception that women who lift get large like their male counterparts do, it is untrue. Women tend to get very toned and defined, depending heavily on the bodytype and regiment of course. I think both FemHawke and MaleHawke do a good job of looking like they are in shape without making it look comical.

You would get something like the image below, as I posted before.







Or these are both realistic images of the some professional athlete
(Marit Bjørgen), someone that should fit the endurance demanded for
longer fights, and were the muscles are not built for show, but for
effect (Cross-country skier, currently the best, and as of this year the
woman with most victories within the sport).


Not heroic at all, and Female Warrior Hawk is still ways off.

And I doubt most would find her horribly unattractive, nor would it be a big problem if you didn't need to build strength based characters, as then you would end up with a slimmer build, esp. if you could tweak that a bit on your own in CC (as you can with your neck currently, albeit often to a laughable lack of change).

I concur.

ps and notice their breast size - NOT huge as I pointed out before.

Modifié par Seena, 11 avril 2011 - 07:52 .

[randName]

Seena wrote...
In my  two playthroughs with a Fem Hawke (warrior rogue)  she  had no defineable muscle mass what so ever. None. Nada. Eveline does - Hawke does not.

Yeah, I wish they at least gave Warrior and Rogue Female Hawk what Aveline got - as she at least got some tone on the arms.

[Seena]

randName wrote...

Seena wrote...
In my  two playthroughs with a Fem Hawke (warrior rogue)  she  had no defineable muscle mass what so ever. None. Nada. Eveline does - Hawke does not.

Yeah, I wish they at least gave Warrior and Rogue Female Hawk what Aveline got - as she at least got some tone on the arms.

Yep - very frustrating. They had the forethought to make Aveline (forgive the previous misspelling) with some muscle - you'd have think they'd have done the same for Hawke.

Oh well, maybe in DA3

[Paraxial]

Seena wrote...
Sorry-  your generalization of "the population" is just wrong. (You've obviously never lived in East Harlem - thin women are considered sickly and too "breakable"). 

And I don't believe that if you present to the gaming community a graphic of a female warrior in two forms -  one with noodle arms, a wasp wait, and stick legs - and one with some well defined muscle - that "in general" the former would be selected as the favorite.

In my  two playthroughs with a Fem Hawke (warrior rogue)  she  had no defineable muscle mass what so ever. None. Nada. Eveline does - Hawke does not.

I'm from Wakefield.

I'm not going to get into an argument about what the general population sees as attractive, go into the media and you'll see what is considered 'desirable' by the masses. You think i'm wrong about it? Super, whatever helps you sleep at night, I am far too apathetic to get into that.

Does anyone actually have a screenshot of FemHawke's body? I confess i've never seen it outside of her armor which sometimes shows her arms and shoulder size.

Modifié par Bible Doctor, 11 avril 2011 - 08:02 .

[randName]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Seena wrote...
Sorry-  your generalization of "the population" is just wrong. (You've obviously never lived in East Harlem - thin women are considered sickly and too "breakable"). 

And I don't believe that if you present to the gaming community a graphic of a female warrior in two forms -  one with noodle arms, a wasp wait, and stick legs - and one with some well defined muscle - that "in general" the former would be selected as the favorite.

In my  two playthroughs with a Fem Hawke (warrior rogue)  she  had no defineable muscle mass what so ever. None. Nada. Eveline does - Hawke does not.

I'm from Wakefield.

I'm not going to get into an argument about what the general population sees as attractive, go into the media and you'll see what is considered 'desirable' by the masses. You think i'm wrong about it? Super, whatever helps you sleep at night, I am far too apathetic to get into that.

Does anyone actually have a screenshot of FemHawke's body? I confess i've never seen it outside of her armor which sometimes shows her arms and shoulder size.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

There is some tone for the deltoid, but hardly anything for either biceps or triceps, nor anything else.

The Male Mage got a trunk for an arm in comparison, and I would claim that he got more than most people find attractive - he could easily have had something like the following image and more women would probably have found him attractive, but that's just a guess (footballer, not american obviously)

[smilie]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSp1RxCG7rK2judN0tJ_MqvTyKhCZR_6QlJeshLug3MUnttIVqr&t=1[/smilie]

Modifié par randName, 11 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[Paraxial]

randName wrote...
- That image is huge -

Edit - That image was huge.

Well she has a lot less muscle than the armor gives her the illusion of having. She seems to have very low muscle comp and extremely low fat content as well, which is surprising when I watch the Merrill romance scene with MaleHawke. I expected FemHawke to be as well defined and large, for her gender of course, as MaleHawke was for his.

Modifié par Bible Doctor, 11 avril 2011 - 08:17 .

[randName]

& then male mage hawke looks like this (from the previous page).

& yes, its silly - she doesn't look fit at all, esp. given all the running that they are doing, and no tone at all.

Modifié par randName, 11 avril 2011 - 08:21 .

[Paraxial]

randName wrote...






& then male mage hawke looks like this (from the previous page).

The hell did all that hair come from?

[randName]

Bible Doctor wrote...

randName wrote...






& then male mage hawke looks like this (from the previous page).

The hell did all that hair come from?

A mod I think, but the bulk is the same either way - was too lazy too look up an other image since someone provided one.



EDIT: Anyway I think most would find something like the image I posted on the athlete acceptable for a female fighter - not to go overboard, as they shouldn't look like bodybuilders, and that goes for both genders.

Modifié par randName, 11 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[Giant ambush beetle]

What about the perfect middle ground? Gina Carano, successful martial arts fighter:



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