200 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashira Shepard]

So Bioware I herd u liek "Humans are Speshul!"



*ahem* Getting to the point in ME when this is reaching patently ludicrious levels. Roughly 40 (or so?) years since first joining the galactic community and Humans have become part of the citadel council when other races had to wait way longer just to have an embassy? Much more diverse genetics than all the species out there?

This shouldn't happen, the first point because not only is 40 years like blinking to Asari but how could any Humans have possibly learned all there is to know about the galaxy to the point were they can join the over-arching government power? Who's decisions have an impact on trillions of lives. The galaxy is massive, and they just handed over the tools of how it works over to what is essentially a toddler.

In ME humans just seem to have exploded over the galaxy in such a painfully short time. If the First Contact War had been a over a hundred years ago then it would be a little less like pulling a grenade out of crisp bag; where the hell did that come from?

The second point is just absurd, because obviously any species that ends up evolving into an intelligent people who achieve space flight and spread across the stars have the genetic diversity of cave moss. Unless you're a human; then you're goddamn amazing.

This is the "planet of hats" effect at work, where there's only a few (say two or three), most of the time just one, defining traits that you can apply to an entire species. And they leave it at that, without taking into account how diverse another intelligent, space faring people would be - just like us. They would have their own plethora of languages, their own myriad of cultures, mythology, their own different styles of food and clothing. They'd have various art forms, dance and stories. They'd have more than one religion, even if the other one is a cult. Hell we're still bickering with each other over religion.

So to boil down my frustration with the humans are SPESHUL trend - why exactly can writers not take the time to get creative with other species? Why aren't humans given the same treatment if you're just going to be lazy with the other species?

What would you do to make other species more diverse instead of just being a planet of hats?

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 03 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[Clonedzero]

humans are allowed into the citadel council because they save the citadel and galaxy.

i mean the mere fact that humans are making such a large impact on the galaxy in their fairly short time in the galactic scene is part of the reason why they're on the council now. i mean what species are you suggesting be the 4th council race if not human?

batarian? well they're slavers and hostile.
volus? they dont seem much more than merchants
elcor? they dont seem overly significant on the galactic scale.
hanar? big stupid jellyfish.

the 4 most influential races in the galaxy are humans, asari, taurian, and salarian. its pretty logical that the humans become the 4th council race. plus humans are pushy.

[Knightsire]

AshiraShepard wrote...

In ME humans just seem to have exploded over the galaxy in such a painfully short time. If the First Contact War had been a over a hundred years ago then it would be a little less like pulling a grenade out of crisp bag; where the hell did that come from?

It is an optimistic view of humanity within a futuristic sci-fi fantasy universe.  Our lives are short and we want to think that what we did before we die had some meaning and so maybe we are in more of a rush to advance.

Several decades in most cases and then we die...so we have to make it count.  Salarians have it even worse.

Asari spend centuries farting around the merc bands, pole dancing, etc. before it seems like they care about anything...well, at least according to that bartender asari...and it may not be like that for all asari.

[Almostfaceman]

AshiraShepard wrote...

So Bioware I herd u liek "Humans are Speshul!"



*ahem* Getting to the point in ME when this is reaching patently ludicrious levels. Roughly 40 (or so?) years since first joining the galactic community and Humans have become part of the citadel council when other races had to wait way longer just to have an embassy? Much more diverse genetics than all the species out there?

This shouldn't happen, the first point because not only is 40 years like blinking to Asari but how could any Humans have possibly learned all there is to know about the galaxy to the point were they can join the over-arching government power? Who's decisions have an impact on trillions of lives. The galaxy is massive, and they just handed over the tools of how it works over to what is essentially a toddler.

In ME humans just seem to have exploded over the galaxy in such a painfully short time. If the First Contact War had been a over a hundred years ago then it would be a little less like pulling a grenade out of crisp bag; where the hell did that come from?

The second point is just absurd, because obviously any species that ends up evolving into an intelligent people who achieve space flight and spread across the stars have the genetic diversity of cave moss. Unless you're a human; then you're goddamn amazing.

This is the "planet of hats" effect at work, where there's only a few (say two or three), most of the time just one, defining traits that you can apply to an entire species. And they leave it at that, without taking into account how diverse another intelligent, space faring people would be - just like us. They would have their own plethora of languages, their own myriad of cultures, mythology, their own different styles of food and clothing. They'd have various art forms, dance and stories. They'd have more than one religion, even if the other one is a cult. Hell we're still bickering with each other over religion.

So to boil down my frustration with the humans are SPESHUL trend - why exactly can writers not take the time to get creative with other species? Why aren't humans given the same treatment if you're just going to be lazy with the other species?

What would you do to make other species more diverse instead of just being a planet of hats?

I'm pretty sure that being snarky is not the right approach if you're trying to send a message to the developers.

[QwertyQwerty]

I agree, humans seem to have a knack for everything in the ME universe while most of the other Aliens generally specialize in one talent. Asari are diplomats, Turians are the military/policef orce, Salarians are scientists, Volus are bankers etc.

[QwertyQwerty]

Clonedzero wrote...

humans are allowed into the citadel council because they save the citadel and galaxy.

i mean the mere fact that humans are making such a large impact on the galaxy in their fairly short time in the galactic scene is part of the reason why they're on the council now. i mean what species are you suggesting be the 4th council race if not human?

batarian? well they're slavers and hostile.
volus? they dont seem much more than merchants
elcor? they dont seem overly significant on the galactic scale.
hanar? big stupid jellyfish.

the 4 most influential races in the galaxy are humans, asari, taurian, and salarian. its pretty logical that the humans become the 4th council race. plus humans are pushy.

Volus deserve to be in the Citadel Council more then humans, they run the Galaxies Bank's and Stock Exchange.

[Leonia]

I'm right there with you, OP, it's been driving me crazy. I'm still trying to figure out how the humans managed to take the turians by surprise in the FCW and were basically winning before the Council stepped in. Their first encounter with a sentient race that had far superior techonology to their own and they somehow are able to overpower them? What is this, I don't even..

I'm tired of humans being special, it's an urealistically optimistic way to view things.

Modifié par leonia42, 03 avril 2011 - 05:15 .

[Ashira Shepard]

@Clonedzero

I'm not saying they could never be part of the council, but it's such a short time since getting their footing. We're greedy, if there's power to be had, we'll take it. Not ask, not earn it; take it. Either through manipulation or brute force. If you finished ME with the renegade choices in ME2 the alien population on the citadel are under borderline oppression because of the all human council.

@Knightsire

That's what I mean, surely not all Asari in existence act like that when young? It's like they have just those two choices in how to spend their younger years, pole dancing or shooting people/smuggling. Aren't there more Asari like Liara? One's who just want to write, or create art or study the floating lizards of Parsan? Something other than pole dancing and merc'ing it out over the galaxy.

@Leonia

THAT. Seriously, how? The Turians, if their hat is to be believed, are a race with such rigid military upbringing and training that they are the the galaxy's enforcers. And we, new comers to this tech just barely grasping it all, manage to push them back? WAT.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 03 avril 2011 - 05:24 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Almostfaceman wrote...
I'm pretty sure that being snarky is not the right approach if you're trying to send a message to the developers.

You assume I believe the developers care what I think. This is just me venting annoyance.

[Whatever42]

No speciesis on the council because they deserve it. These races are on the council because they are too powerful to leave off the council. Humans join the council because after the Battle of the Citadel we're a military powerhouse on par with the Turians and we've shown that we'll stand by them.

The Volus aren't on the council because they can be left off and they can't or won't do a damn thing about it.

As far as diversity, that was genetic diversity. Yes, the species in ME are all tropes, although Bioware does try create some variation. There was a Krogan poet and Wrex is a wise leader. We've encounter peaceful Asari, violent Asari, bitter racist Asari. We've seen soldier Salarians, scientist Salarians, renegade Salarians. The Hanar are all peaceful except they use assassins.

But the diversity mentioned in the game is genetic diversity. It's probably because humans are a younger race and have recently be separated into nations based on race. Most of the other species have probably had a common culture for a while.

If you really want to get into, though, the human genome has very little variation, far less than any other species on Earth. This is because when our species evolved into our species, catastrophic climate change nearly wiped everyone out. They think there might have only been 10,000 ****** sapiens at that time.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 03 avril 2011 - 05:26 .

[Clonedzero]

QwertyQwerty wrote...

I agree, humans seem to have a knack for everything in the ME universe while most of the other Aliens generally specialize in one talent. Asari are diplomats, Turians are the military/policef orce, Salarians are scientists, Volus are bankers etc.

well that seems to be brought up constantly as well, how adaptive and varied humans are. in skillsets and genetically. humans are sort of the "jack of all trades" race of the galaxy.

all through ME1 humans are getting the run around from the council, i doubt the council ever intended on letting them join it, not until sovereign attacks that is.

so either, humans saved the council and the citadel and the galaxy. OR the humans saved the citadel and the galaxy and took over in a power vaccuum.

either way its not a huge logical leap on why they'd be let in. not to mention the fact the humans have become a massively influential force in a fairly short time.

[Almostfaceman]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
I'm pretty sure that being snarky is not the right approach if you're trying to send a message to the developers.

You assume I believe the developers care what I think. This is just me venting annoyance.

I didn't assume anything, that's why I said "if". 

[Ashira Shepard]

I'm just question the realism of it. (I know, questioning "realism" in a science-fiction/fantasy story, ha-ha)

How long has the Council been around? shouldn't that government kind of be like a real big guy, unmoving and has seen everything type. Then humans come along and it's like being pestered by a pushy, bratty child.

Almostfaceman wrote...
I didn't assume anything, that's why I said "if". 

Then sorry.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 03 avril 2011 - 05:34 .

[Leonia]

Hell, it took the turians 200 years to get a seat on the Council after helping in the Krogan Rebellions and everyone complained about how rapidly they were growing in influence. Yet it takes humans less than half of that time to achieve the same thing basically. No wonder everyone was complaining about humans on the Citadel in ME1.

@Whatever: Very good points there, sir. I'm still not sure if I buy the genetic diversity stuff.. especially when the novels mention that humans are becoming one generic, common culture overall.

Modifié par leonia42, 03 avril 2011 - 05:36 .

[QwertyQwerty]

Hopefully if there is a ME spinoff after ME3 will get a game like DA:O where we get to pick our race.
That would really help develop the other races and there attitudes towards each other.

[Almostfaceman]

AshiraShepard wrote...

I'm just question the realism of it. (I know, questioning "realism" in a science-fiction/fantasy story, ha-ha)

How long has the Council been around? shouldn't that government kind of be like a real big guy, unmoving and has seen everything type. Then humans come along and it's like being pestered by a pushy, bratty child.

Almostfaceman wrote...
I didn't assume anything, that's why I said "if". 

Then sorry.

Nom nom

[Ashira Shepard]

That's what I'm looking for, differences, "inconsistent consistences" within races.

For example, the Asari promote choosing a mate outside their own species because of the stigma of Asari-Asari pairings. Yet there are still plenty of "purebloods." Naturally you'd think it would be strange learning to feel attracted to something that looks nothing like you're used to. (LI's and fangirls/boys notwithstanding)

[raist747]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm right there with you, OP, it's been driving me crazy. I'm still trying to figure out how the humans managed to take the turians by surprise in the FCW and were basically winning before the Council stepped in. Their first encounter with a sentient race that had far superior techonology to their own and they somehow are able to overpower them? What is this, I don't even..

I'm tired of humans being special, it's an urealistically optimistic way to view things.

History is riddled with cases of a overconfident, advanced army getting its ass kicked by a less advanced force. Look at the Zulus tearing the British Empire a new one in the late 19th century, with bow and arrows. Numerous battles in the American Revolution until the French stepped in.

Its also mentioned that the Taurians were about to wind up their war machine, seeing how well we delt with their  lone expedition force, and would have curb-stomped us with shear numbers and firepower if the Council did not step in.

Other than that, I agree with the OP on the other points.

Modifié par raist747, 03 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[Clonedzero]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm right there with you, OP, it's been driving me crazy. I'm still trying to figure out how the humans managed to take the turians by surprise in the FCW and were basically winning before the Council stepped in. Their first encounter with a sentient race that had far superior techonology to their own and they somehow are able to overpower them? What is this, I don't even..

I'm tired of humans being special, it's an urealistically optimistic way to view things.

if theres one thing humans are good at, its killing stuff.

[Corwyn]

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

[KLUME777]

I agree with the OP, too many things that don't make sense in ME.

This is why i like Dragon Age: Origins better, it has none of these tropes.

[Whatever42]

AshiraShepard wrote...

That's what I'm looking for, differences, "inconsistent consistences" within races.

For example, the Asari promote choosing a mate outside their own species because of the stigma of Asari-Asari pairings. Yet there are still plenty of "purebloods." Naturally you'd think it would be strange learning to feel attracted to something that looks nothing like you're used to. (LI's and fangirls/boys notwithstanding)

Heck, we have real life human females playing the game who are all attracted to a poisonous creature with a hard exo-skeleton and mandibles because it has a sexy voice.

As well, Asari have been out here a long time and have been around other races for well over a 1000 years. And they do live a very long time. I know as I get older, I find that there are qualities more important than looks. Who knows how you think when you're centuries old.

[Ashira Shepard]

@Mackarnickle

Same, I would be less irritated by it all if the time frame wasn't so painfully small. It is a lot of achievement...humans are not that awesome. >.>

@Whatever666

I know this, but it still bugs my thoughts. I mean, think of young Asari? In school when one usually starts feeling attraction to those around them. And they're told "no, it's wrong" - "It's wrong to like my own species...wat?"

Think of it this way, you're a teenager again, you think you might like this girl/guy and suddenly someone tells you "No, no, don't do that. Go boink skull-face over there."

You see?

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 03 avril 2011 - 06:10 .

[Inspectre]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm still trying to figure out how the humans managed to take the turians by surprise in the FCW and were basically winning before the Council stepped in.

The entry didn't say that the humans were winning, just that they pushed the Turians from Shanxi.

leonia42 wrote...

Their first encounter with a sentient race that had far superior techonology to their own and they somehow are able to overpower them? What is this, I don't even..

Who said that the Turians had superior tech?  The Reapers want everyone to be at the same level, so I think it's safe to say that the Humans had similar weapons at the time.

Also, I believe that they overpowered the Turians with numbers... mostly.

[Whatever42]

Macgarnickle wrote...

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

Our colonies are pretty tiny. Compare something like Eden Prime to Illium.