200 réponses à ce sujet

[Lukertin]

It's specifically stated in the ME Codex that races like the Asari and Turians were very diverse, but over time they slowly solidified into more singularly-minded governments. e.g., the Asari had many religions, but now is down to like 2 or 3 main ones, and are made up of many smaller republics, while the Turians had been space colonizing for so long that individual Turians had more allegiance to their colony world than the Turian homeworld.

It isn't as generic and homogenizing of a universe as you think.

[Devbo22]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

Our colonies are pretty tiny. Compare something like Eden Prime to Illium.

Exactly.  We haven't seen any thriving human worlds, they've all been small "makeshift" if you will, colonies.

[Clonedzero]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

Our colonies are pretty tiny. Compare something like Eden Prime to Illium.

yeah, read the descriptions on some planets. some might surprise you.

the giant shipgraveyard you recruit grunt at has a population of 3.8 BILLION people. and the entire planet is basically a massive shipgraveyard.

[Whatever42]

Clonedzero wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

Our colonies are pretty tiny. Compare something like Eden Prime to Illium.

yeah, read the descriptions on some planets. some might surprise you.

the giant shipgraveyard you recruit grunt at has a population of 3.8 BILLION people. and the entire planet is basically a massive shipgraveyard.

Wow. I never even noticed that. Wiki says its krogan and mercenaries there. I hope that means mostly krogan. That would be a lot of mercs. But that looks kind of like the right environment for krogan.

[FeralEwok]

If i may put my two cents in:

The rest of the alien species have been space faring beings while humans were still living in nomadic tribes, so yeah they are the new kid in town when it comes to the state of the galaxy.

However I think it's because they are still somewhat immature or better to say inexperienced that makes them "special". There is an eagerness and curiousity that drives humans to push for advancement in politics, science, warfare etc. and it shouldnt come as a surprise that their determination has resulted in large progress over a small amount of time. Look at it this way, when the Wright brothers made their first flight at the turn of the 20th century something that had been thought impossible, we managed to build jet engines even break the sound barrier in only a few decades, not too long after that we got into space..orbited earth, then the moon and we still are trying to push the envelope.

The council races have made their progression and reached the point that they have grown, at least as a society, complacent in their ways. The Asari living as long as they have are more likely to be extremely patient, if there is a problem they can wait it out because time is not much of a factor when you have 1000 years to live. Humans dont have that luxury so we jump into the thick of it, some aliens have pointed it out as being somewhat of a bully, others have praised it...so not all of the alien species think alike even right there.

I do agree they seem to have less opinionated views than humans but again it goes back to how much time those species have had to develop. They are secure with where they are in the galaxy they know who they are as a people and if you rewind back to when they were first leaving their homes to venture out in space they probably acted the same way humans are doing by the time of ME1 & 2. Humans are still growing as a people and trying to figure out not just who they are but what their place in the galaxy is.

So basically when I think about it, its our enthusiasim that makes us special, not the fact that we are just humans.

Modifié par FeralEwok, 03 avril 2011 - 06:40 .

[Gabey5]

mass realys tend to spread people out easily

Modifié par Gabey5, 03 avril 2011 - 07:01 .

[Corwyn]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

Our colonies are pretty tiny. Compare something like Eden Prime to Illium.

I understand that but I still think they're bigger than they should be given the time that has past, not only the size but number of them and how established some them seem.  Like Bekenstein it was colonized in 2158 ME2 takes place in 2183 this is 25 years and Bekenstein is considered a first wave planet according to it's entry.  It has about 5 million people not just that but it's apparently a well established human trade and manufacturing world.

It's not just the colonies it's all sorts of little things that to me made it seem like too much had happened in too short a period of time.  Other people may have different opinions that's fine I simply feel the game would have been more realistic set further after first contact it's not game breaking or anything just a little thing that always kind of bugged me.

[Lukertin]

One thing that bugs me is in ME1 they go out of the way to explain how Earth has a lot of colonies but those colonies' populations are very small, with the most populous human colony having only like 5 million.

Then in ME2 various planet descriptions have things like "This planet is inhabited primarily by humans and batarians, population: in the tens of millions". I feel like there was a huge disconnect between the lore departments of each game...

Modifié par Lukertin, 03 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[CroGamer002]

Humans adapt very quickly and don't have low IQ like Vorcha.

[GodWood]

I thought it was dissapointing in ME1 when all the human manufacturers were on par and even superior compared to the alien manufacturers but ME2 really took 'hoomans r speshul' to an extreme.

Modifié par GodWood, 03 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[Lukertin]

GodWood wrote...

I thought it was dissapointing in ME1 when all the human manufacturers were on par and even superior compared to the alien manufacturers but ME2 really took 'hoomans r speshul' to an extreme.

Well the humans were able to hold their own v. the turians on approximately equal numbers.

After the opening of political and economic channels you would think that things like a) reverse engineering, joint ventures, c) open patent system, d) corporate espionage were common place.

Examples:  Russia steals nuclear secrets from America and invents the ICBM while America is content with dropping nukes out of a plane.  Indian corporation develops and manufacturers their own version of the iPad within a year or two of Apple announcing their product (never mind selling it).  I think it would be expected for human companies to be on par with alien manufacturers, and as for being superior you could just argue that they were optimized for human use or something.

Modifié par Lukertin, 03 avril 2011 - 08:58 .

[GodWood]

Lukertin wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I thought it was dissapointing in ME1 when all the human manufacturers were on par and even superior compared to the alien manufacturers but ME2 really took 'hoomans r speshul' to an extreme.

Well the humans were able to hold their own v. the turians on approximately equal numbers.

Another thing I hated.
The turians had achieved space flight roughly 1500 years ago and yet their technology was equal to that of the humans who had only had space flight for 200 years.

I think it would be expected for human companies to be on par with alien manufacturers, and as for being superior you could just argue that they were optimized for human use or something.

And yet they make the finest turian, quarian and krogan armor? [colossus]

Modifié par GodWood, 03 avril 2011 - 09:28 .

[Corwyn]

Lukertin wrote...

GodWood wrote...

I thought it was dissapointing in ME1 when all the human manufacturers were on par and even superior compared to the alien manufacturers but ME2 really took 'hoomans r speshul' to an extreme.

Well the humans were able to hold their own v. the turians on approximately equal numbers.

After the opening of political and economic channels you would think that things like a) reverse engineering, joint ventures, c) open patent system, d) corporate espionage were common place.

Examples:  Russia steals nuclear secrets from America and invents the ICBM while America is content with dropping nukes out of a plane.  Indian corporation develops and manufacturers their own version of the iPad within a year or two of Apple announcing their product (never mind selling it).  I think it would be expected for human companies to be on par with alien manufacturers, and as for being superior you could just argue that they were optimized for human use or something.

As far as I know we've never seen concrete numbers for what either side committed to the First Contact War,  we do know that the other Council races stepped in when the Turians started to mobilize for all we know the majority of the human navy managed to fend off a scouting fleet.  

The difference between reverse engineering is the level of technology, sure Indian companies managed to reverse engineer an IPAD India has about the same level of technological development as the US.  The council races have been in space for thousands of years, humans catching up should be like guys making steam ships trying to reverse engineer a nuclear sub.  

Bioware does explain this somewhat by saying we found Prothean ruins on Mars.  If they really wanted to explain why human companies like Sirta and some of the weapons makers are suddenly big names in the galaxy they could expand on this.  Maybe something like it's the best preserved Prothean site and humanity hasn't been sharing the marvels it pulled out.  But like I said the time frame still seems short to me to catch up and in some ways surpass the other races.

[Anacronian Stryx]

I can imagine that as soon as the humans joined the intergalactic community there was a whole host of aliens trying to sell them plans for common day tech after all it seems that pretty much every council race is on the same tech level.

[armass]

I agree it has been too quick, they should have added at least 100 + years to the first contact. It's kinda hard to believe humanity has achieved so much in so little a time, when you look at how the world is.

Modifié par armass, 03 avril 2011 - 09:47 .

[Mr Zoat]

I got the impression that most races rested on their laurels after copying prothian technology. All their really advanced stuff was given to them. Mass effect tech is more or less the same whether its turian or human because its really prothian.

[ArmedChimp]

I don't see why people are suprised that  humans are suddenly coming up. Its not like it has happened before in history. Look at China 20 years ago no one looked at it now its estimated to overtake the USA's economy.

[Urazz]

Macgarnickle wrote...

I think my big problem is the time frame. It's seems like we've spread out everywhere with relatively large colonies in a very short period of time. I thought it would have been more realistic if ME had been set at least a century or so after the 1st Contact War.

It's the same for me, though I think if they put a bigger gap between finding the Prothean research station on Mars and the First Contact War things would work out better with the current situation I think.  I think at least a 100 year gap between the two events would be enough to get humanity having as many colonies and the military strength that they have.

[Rybciek]

It's unfortunately true, ME2 especially took the "humans are special" and "hats" trope to groan-worthy extremes. It just made the whole game much less immersive and impressive than the first. In the first game they at least tried to highlight diversity of aliens (and humans), but in the second we just stoop down to "everyone acts like a human except now they have their own HAT which they use sometimes!". The Turian flirting with the Quarian in the Illium bar comes to mind as an example.

[Wulfram]

The big problem for me is that since humans are of necessity the baseline, what "Humans are special" really seems to amount to is "aliens suck".

[TheDFO]

ArmedChimp wrote...

I don't see why people are suprised that  humans are suddenly coming up. Its not like it has happened before in history. Look at China 20 years ago no one looked at it now its estimated to overtake the USA's economy.

I believe that is mostly because A) 20 years ago they were essentially a subsitance level economy, They are copying the tech we spent the 120 years since the industrial revolution in 20 years, C) They are WAY bigger than us, in terms of population, and D) they have less rules about environmental and work treatments.


Back on topic, I had two assumptions that made it sometime into ME2 before they were dispelled, and they, at least in my opinion, make the story much more reasonable.

The first is that the FCW was one to two centuries ago.
The second is that, while the other races had to make due on Prothean scraps, we got lucky and found in tact, and STILL ACTIVE space vehicles. Complete with eezo reactors. So, other races had to, more less, recreate the tech themselves, we got the equivalent of building instructions.

[Ahriman]

Arcian wrote...

I'm thinking the only reason why humans are special (in terms of pre-ME1 lore and ME1 lore) is because they were lucky...

It's because we are humans, that's all.

I also doubt humanity was winning the FCW, i just think the turians weren't taking the conflict seriously until the 2nd fleet took back Shanxi.

It wasn't, humanity faced only turian border troops.

And humans being invited to every imaginable venue in the business, social and political worlds just seems like a ploy to integrate them as fast as possible to make them feel welcome and comfortable and thus keep them from seeing the rest of the galaxy as competition. Why tolerate an enemy when you can make him a friend?

Galaxy of saints, how sweet. Even turians, who hated humans for years after FCW helped humans to feel comfortable.

And the whole "getting on the Council after 26 years" issue... POLITICAL PLOY. As above, "keeping your enemies close". Sure, humanity saved the day by intervening during a lucky break thanks to ONE PERSON. That's cool, shouldn't go without at least a "thank you". Problem is, the Citadel fleets are crippled. That leaves the council in a bit of a weak bargaining position. "How do we keep them from steamrolling the rest of us when we say, 'Thanks for the help, but we won't acknowledge you for another century or two',?"

Easy. Give them the magnus documen of bargaining chips - a council spot. Make them feel special and at home, part of the community. Pat them on the back and say, "Good job, we really appreciate it". Don't mention the mountain of paperwork that comes with the title, or the fact that people starts making stupid amounts of demands now that you're a part of the fancy ruling club. As long as they use their intact fleets to protect yours until they are rebuilt, it's all good and awesome. Its a rule by majority, after all, and they're the odd fourth wheel on this tricycle.

Battle with Sovereign is the moment when humanity became special. Citadel fleet was vanished in few minutes like paperfleet. Fine, Reaper did it. But when relay was activated only 5th Arrived. Turian fleet, asari fleet, salarian fleet, did some of them cared? No, and that's a problem for me. If ships from all nearest systems came there along with 5th fleet it would be normal and humanity wouldn't be special. Council decisions after this battle are logical, because humanity was one of the strongest forces in Citadel Space.

The use of the "Humans are Special"-trope in ME2 with the genetic diversity thing was completely unforgivable, on the other hand.

Agree.

Modifié par Wizz, 03 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[ShadyKat]

Because it's just easier to have humans always in the dominate role, since as humans we can relate. In pretty much every fantasy/ sci-fi game or movie, humans always seem to be the center of attention, and I agree, it's getting old. I would like to see Bioware think outside of the box, and hopefully, in the Mass Effect spin offs, focus on the other races. This trilogy was dedicated to humanity step on to the galactic stage. That should end after ME3. I would like to see the spin off have little, even no humans at all in it. I doubt this happens, and more then likely we will just be stuck playing as another human soldier