200 réponses à ce sujet

[T764]

It's interesting to note that a number of people are judging entire spacefaring species based a small number of individuals they meet in game. For a real life example,in my life i have met 2 South Africans, both were arrogant, rude and people i could have done without meeting, can i judge every South African to be the same?
In both ME games you can interact with 9 or so Quarians out of 17+ million, can i judge every Quarian to be the same based on the few that i can converse with?

[Kelgair]

kaotician wrote...
You're missing the OP's point. It's the very fact of the one-dimensional nature of these aliens, as you allude to in your descriptions, that's the problem. It verges on racist, really, although in-game we've had good and bad Asari etc. It reminds me a little of 80's Trek, where Klingons are always aggressive, those fellows with the big ears are always  avaricious - (not big noses, you understand, as that'd verge on anti-semitic, wouldn't it?) Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese people in Star Wars - though, of course, they're not Japnese stereotypes really, as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc.

What... the... f**k...

Are you really this shallow?

[Kelgair]

Kelgair wrote...

kaotician wrote...
You're missing the OP's point. It's the very fact of the one-dimensional nature of these aliens, as you allude to in your descriptions, that's the problem. It verges on racist, really, although in-game we've had good and bad Asari etc. It reminds me a little of 80's Trek, where Klingons are always aggressive, those fellows with the big ears are always  avaricious - (not big noses, you understand, as that'd verge on anti-semitic, wouldn't it?) Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese people in Star Wars - though, of course, they're not Japnese stereotypes really, as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc.

What... the... f**k...

Are you really this shallow?

Lemme just explain since I'm about to log off for a bit. The fact he thinks ME's races are one demensional is fine (even though they're not if you pay attention, his opinon), I'm not bothered. Opinions are always like A-holes. Everyone has one. I was kinda botherd by his j bashing. but I expect that kind o stuff after awhile, even the subtle kind. But THIS whole text kinda floored me.

"Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese
people in Star Wars. though, of course, they're not Japanese stereotypes
really"

"as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc."

"everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc."

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot. :/

[T764]

Disregard everything i said earlier, the Alliance are the ultimate example of non diversity, America in space, again. Name 5 Alliance members without an American accent.
And as to the op's point if humans were backward and failed to advance in the universe it would make for a dull series, Shepard wouldn't be considered for the Spectres.

[kaotician]

Kelgair wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

kaotician wrote...
You're missing the OP's point. It's the very fact of the one-dimensional nature of these aliens, as you allude to in your descriptions, that's the problem. It verges on racist, really, although in-game we've had good and bad Asari etc. It reminds me a little of 80's Trek, where Klingons are always aggressive, those fellows with the big ears are always  avaricious - (not big noses, you understand, as that'd verge on anti-semitic, wouldn't it?) Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese people in Star Wars - though, of course, they're not Japnese stereotypes really, as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc.

What... the... f**k...

Are you really this shallow?

Lemme just explain since I'm about to log off for a bit. The fact he thinks ME's races are one demensional is fine (even though they're not if you pay attention, his opinon), I'm not bothered. Opinions are always like A-holes. Everyone has one. I was kinda botherd by his j bashing. but I expect that kind o stuff after awhile, even the subtle kind. But THIS whole text kinda floored me.

"Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese
people in Star Wars. though, of course, they're not Japanese stereotypes
really"

"as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc."

"everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc."

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot. :/

Hey dude, no, I'm being sardonic, not literal.

[aimlessgun]

kaotician wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

kaotician wrote...
You're missing the OP's point. It's the very fact of the one-dimensional nature of these aliens, as you allude to in your descriptions, that's the problem. It verges on racist, really, although in-game we've had good and bad Asari etc. It reminds me a little of 80's Trek, where Klingons are always aggressive, those fellows with the big ears are always  avaricious - (not big noses, you understand, as that'd verge on anti-semitic, wouldn't it?) Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese people in Star Wars - though, of course, they're not Japnese stereotypes really, as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc.

And like I said earlier, that's not actually true in ME, at all. The aliens are very individuated. The OP is trying to force a criticism that isn't there.

Nah, not it, at all. Take a look again at who I was quoting from, and you can see the same easy descriptions 4 times over. Sorry you don't see it, but there we are.

The guy you quoted provided 2 stereotypes. The elcor one was a noncomment, and the hanar one (big stupid jellyfish) didn't actually mean anything.

The game has limited screen time. They have to balance giving the player an overall feel for the culture while at the same time defining specific individuals. Bioware did a fine job of achieving both those objectives. I'm sorry you weren't paying close enough attention while playing to see beyond the first one.

The only race that has a stereotype problem is the Batarians, and after Arrival I'm starting to wonder if it's a deliberate subversion.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 04 avril 2011 - 09:20 .

[emmanuelsieyes]

AshiraShepard wrote...

@Knightsire

That's what I mean, surely not all Asari in existence act like that when young? It's like they have just those two choices in how to spend their younger years, pole dancing or shooting people/smuggling. Aren't there more Asari like Liara? One's who just want to write, or create art or study the floating lizards of Parsan? Something other than pole dancing and merc'ing it out over the galaxy.

@Leonia

THAT. Seriously, how? The Turians, if their hat is to be believed, are a race with such rigid military upbringing and training that they are the the galaxy's enforcers. And we, new comers to this tech just barely grasping it all, manage to push them back? WAT.

There are millions of Asari like Liara. There are millions of asari artists out there, if not billions. There are hordes of Asari who are studying philosophy and religion under teachers such as Benezia.

However, mass effect isn't about hanging around art galleries and reading literary criticism. The only people Shepard deals with is squadmates and enemy combatants.

Humans are hardly the end-all military power in the galaxy. The only reason the humans did not get trashed in the first contact war is because a. the turians underestimated humanity, and b. the human counterattack had the element of surprise. The Turians had to ship in food to their forces at Shanxi, the small detachment of the turian military was hardly in a position to hold out against a concentrated counterattack.

Keep in mind the extreme rate that our own technology is advancing at. It was stated that human FTL research (and therefore, spaceship technology) was taking place before the discovery of the prothean ruins on mars. Once humans disovered eezo, they just had to modify conventional starship designs to utilize eezo. Obviously, humans already had some form of fusion power for spaceships, otherwise they never would have made it out to jump zero. Mass accelerator cannons already exist, they just use magnets instead of eezo. The military just had to replace the magnetic-based weapons with eezo.

Of course, eezo-based technology is going to significantly change battle tactics. But the Turian forces at Shanxi were in a crap position, and they also didn't know the humans tactics - it's stated that humans introduced the ideas of using carriers to launch fighters against enemy ships.

[Ashira Shepard]

@Michaelrsa

You're forgetting Humans could totally turn on the Special Sparkle Factor and dazzle the combined alien forces into submission.

*ahem* Seriously though, I agree they would not possibly stand up to all three; if that happened at some point I'd throw in the towel. Just...no. Turian military might, Asari commandos and Salarian sabotage? Curb stomp battle at it's most spectacular.

@Emman

I know it's not all about that, but it'd be nice to actually SEE, even just mentioned in the codex where such a massive degree of exposition takes place, those more creatively inclined young Asari.

[kaotician]

aimlessgun wrote...

kaotician wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

kaotician wrote...
You're missing the OP's point. It's the very fact of the one-dimensional nature of these aliens, as you allude to in your descriptions, that's the problem. It verges on racist, really, although in-game we've had good and bad Asari etc. It reminds me a little of 80's Trek, where Klingons are always aggressive, those fellows with the big ears are always  avaricious - (not big noses, you understand, as that'd verge on anti-semitic, wouldn't it?) Or those really tall Trade Federation guys who talk like Japanese people in Star Wars - though, of course, they're not Japnese stereotypes really, as everyone knows Japs are really short guys instead etc.

And like I said earlier, that's not actually true in ME, at all. The aliens are very individuated. The OP is trying to force a criticism that isn't there.

Nah, not it, at all. Take a look again at who I was quoting from, and you can see the same easy descriptions 4 times over. Sorry you don't see it, but there we are.

The guy you quoted provided 2 stereotypes. The elcor one was a noncomment, and the hanar one (big stupid jellyfish) didn't actually mean anything.

The game has limited screen time. They have to balance giving the player an overall feel for the culture while at the same time defining specific individuals. Bioware did a fine job of achieving both those objectives. I'm sorry you weren't paying close enough attention while playing to see beyond the first one.

The only race that has a stereotype problem is the Batarians, and after Arrival I'm starting to wonder if it's a deliberate subversion.

The power of belief over observation, I guess you just don't or can't or won't see the problem - but really, if you can't see it, why comment on it? I mean, no one would expect you to comment if you just don't see why exactly e=mc2, nor would it be reasonable to do so, so why comment here? Honestly, you not seeing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist - the world is more than you and your personal perceptions.

[kaotician]

On the grounds that you don't get to kill innocent people and elect yourself chief cheese without there being consequences.

[kaotician]

That's just rubbish, sorry. You must have played the game, yes?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Every time you link to that damnable TVTropes site something horrible happens in the world.

The "genetic diversity" nonsense is just that. A load of nonsense, but in the end it is just something for Mordin to rant about once and Shepard to dismiss.

[Dean_the_Young]

michaelrsa wrote...

They'd wipe the floor with us.

Not without getting Terminally burned themselves.

Which is actually the bigger deterrant to war. It's usually not about who will win, but more about what costs your victory will take and if you would accept them.

[kaotician]

Saphra Deden wrote...

kaotician wrote...

That's just rubbish, sorry. You must have played the game, yes?

Care to explain why?

I've played the game more times than you have, I guarantee it.

The Alliance did not murder anybody. They left the Destiny Ascension to its fate for justifiable tactical reasons.

Afterwards, with the Citadel fleets decimated, only the Alliance was in the position to lead the wounded Citadel. It was the Council after all that demanded only the strongest could rise to its ranks. Well, the aftermath of the battle made humanity the strongest.

The other races won't go to war, they don't have the guts. They are too comfortable, they have known peace for too long. In a thousand years their only two encounters with war have left them defeated both times (Citadel and Shanxi). They just don't have the stomach for it anymore.

Not to mention that even if humanity was destined to lose such a war in the process humanity could raze most of the galaxy, ensuring that any alien victory was a phyrric one. Nobody is going to fight a war against an opponent who has not attacked them when the cost of victory is that high.

Well, we British did exactly that when we declared war on **** Germany.

Where you talk about justifiable tactical reasons, surely the Paragon playout proves there was no need to leave the Council to its' fate?

It's easy to have the guts to go to war when you've spent your money on armaments and the like. If we look around the round world, with the exception of China, every country that has spent a fortune on weapons somehow ends up fighting the so-called good fight. That's not bravery, to pick a fight from a position of strength, it's actually a form of cowardice. It's much braver to fight a fight against a stronger enemy than a weaker one, surely? Otherwise, we'd all be stuck with the moral dimwittedness of the USA.

[kaotician]

Saphra Deden wrote...

kaotician wrote...

Well, we British did exactly that when we declared war on **** Germany.

Good thing the United States came to save you, huh? It's also worth noting that WWII destroyed what was left of your Empire. Good move, Brits!

kaotician wrote...

Where you talk about justifiable tactical reasons, surely the Paragon playout proves there was no need to leave the Council to its' fate?

Meta-gaming. Nobody in the Renegade universe will ever know that the Council could have been saved.

Now,now, you didn't come and save us, we hired your help and paid you fully for it. Losing our Empire in return for what we acheived was a good deal, and we've never regretted it. America got directly involved in the war in Europe when it became clear after Stalingrad that Germany was going to lose to the Russians. America didn't mind the racists being in charge, overall, it was the Commies that bothered them - ironic, when yopu consider that the entire US nation is based on the theft of the land from the Indians:lol:

Modifié par kaotician, 04 avril 2011 - 11:46 .