301 réponses à ce sujet

[Zelnik]

the hammerhead suffered from "invisible wall" syndrome, which made me wonder how the crew could survive being tossed about whenever the vehicle came to a sudden crashing stop after speeding flat out across the alien world.

control was better in the hammerhead, but nowhere near as goofy, silly, or entertaining as the mako.

[Maj.Pain007]

The Mako wasn't a bad idea in thought it was just poorly executed. I liked exploring although the barren worlds were lame. I feel like it can be improved upon greatly. Fixing the physics and adding customizable options to it would go a long way. Think about having different ammo for it, switching out the guns, ETC.

[Lunatic LK47]

Notanything wrote...

I loved controlling the Mako, I don't understand how anybody can consider it so hard to control at all. Perhaps the handling was superior on a keyboard? I never had any trouble controlling it whatsoever, the only worlds where driving was difficult were mountainous worlds like Eletania, and that type of terrain only existed in a few planets. But you know what? I still managed to find a way to drive the Mako up to the top, able to observe most of the planet from an elevated position.

Uh, the problems with the Mako is on the X-Box 360. Be glad you got the PC version, and apparently BioWare forwarded this to Demiurge.

[Dave666]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Notanything wrote...

I loved controlling the Mako, I don't understand how anybody can consider it so hard to control at all. Perhaps the handling was superior on a keyboard? I never had any trouble controlling it whatsoever, the only worlds where driving was difficult were mountainous worlds like Eletania, and that type of terrain only existed in a few planets. But you know what? I still managed to find a way to drive the Mako up to the top, able to observe most of the planet from an elevated position.

Uh, the problems with the Mako is on the X-Box 360. Be glad you got the PC version, and apparently BioWare forwarded this to Demiurge.

Wierd, 'cause I play on th 360 and I love the Mako.

[Notanything]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Notanything wrote...

I
loved controlling the Mako, I don't understand how anybody can consider
it so hard to control at all. Perhaps the handling was superior on a
keyboard? I never had any trouble controlling it whatsoever, the only
worlds where driving was difficult were mountainous worlds like
Eletania, and that type of terrain only existed in a few planets. But
you know what? I still managed to find a way to drive the Mako up to
the top, able to observe most of the planet from an elevated
position.

Uh, the problems with the Mako is on the X-Box 360. Be glad you got the PC version, and apparently BioWare forwarded this to Demiurge.

That's pretty unfortunate, but it's what I had a feeling might be the case with players who had a hard time driving it. I would have honestly expected a keyboard would lead to a harder time driving, funny how things work.

Modifié par Notanything, 06 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[Rurik_Niall]

Dave666 wrote...

Wierd, 'cause I play on th 360 and I love the Mako.

And I play on the PC and I positively despise the Scrappy.

[Notanything]

"Scrappy", huh? The Mako was brittle for you?

[Rurik_Niall]

Not a troper I take it. Scrappy is a term used to describe a character that generates a considerable hatedom. A subtrope of the Scrappy is the Scrappy Mechanic, a gameplay mechanic in an otherwise fun or enjoyable game, like Mass Effect, that generates a considerable hatedom. Both tanks have an entry on the Scrappy Mechanic page, the Mako's is larger, and unlike the Hammerhead the Mako's entry doesn't include a single compliment. And I quote.

"The Mako! Overly sensitive controls and a meaningless cross-hair (unless zoomed in) make it a nightmare to drive even in straight-aways. The PC version has revamped(and programmable) controls, but it still is considered the worst part of the gameplay. It is particularly annoying on sidequest planets, where you had to desperately try to climb mountains with it instead of landing at the top with your Cool Ship. Plus, it steals your XP, supposedly to keep it's armor and guns from becoming a Game Breaker - except that quickly becomes pointless, as while you can turn your party into two-legged tanks, you can't upgrade the Mako. By around level 30, your best course of action is usually to just step out of the damn thing and take out your foes with your Sniper Pistol. And heaven help you if you have a low engineering skill and try to repair the Mako. If you do, the Mako stops for 30 seconds(Meaning you can't fire your weapons or move it), repairs so little damage you can't even tell, and steals your omnigel just to show you how much it hates you. You're better off making a sandwich and waiting for the shield to come back on it's own."

[PARAGON87]

I support bringing back the Mako, and Hammerhead, and hope ME3 makes Shepard able to drive a whole bunch of vehicles, instead of it being limited to just one (or two in the case of LotSB).

And yes, I mean like in Halo.  (Gets flame shield ).

Modifié par PARAGON87, 06 avril 2011 - 03:38 .

[MassEffect762]

It's kinda sad remembering that I had asked them back on the old ME forums for a hover vehicle.(something more futuristic)

I had zero problems controlling the Mako on the 360, the terrain was tolerable for the most part.

The HH feels more like a toy than a weapon.

I really miss the vast empty yet from time-to-time scenic planets with an occasional enemy base or maw most.

I miss the ability to get out the vehicle and explore or shoot something.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 06 avril 2011 - 03:46 .

[Notanything]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Not a troper I take it. Scrappy is a term used to describe a character that generates a considerable hatedom. A subtrope of the Scrappy is the Scrappy Mechanic, a gameplay mechanic in an otherwise fun or enjoyable game, like Mass Effect, that generates a considerable hatedom. Both tanks have an entry on the Scrappy Mechanic page, the Mako's is larger, and unlike the Hammerhead the Mako's entry doesn't include a single compliment. And I quote.

"The Mako! Overly sensitive controls and a meaningless cross-hair (unless zoomed in) make it a nightmare to drive even in straight-aways. The PC version has revamped(and programmable) controls, but it still is considered the worst part of the gameplay. It is particularly annoying on sidequest planets, where you had to desperately try to climb mountains with it instead of landing at the top with your Cool Ship. Plus, it steals your XP, supposedly to keep it's armor and guns from becoming a Game Breaker - except that quickly becomes pointless, as while you can turn your party into two-legged tanks, you can't upgrade the Mako. By around level 30, your best course of action is usually to just step out of the damn thing and take out your foes with your Sniper Pistol. And heaven help you if you have a low engineering skill and try to repair the Mako. If you do, the Mako stops for 30 seconds(Meaning you can't fire your weapons or move it), repairs so little damage you can't even tell, and steals your omnigel just to show you how much it hates you. You're better off making a sandwich and waiting for the shield to come back on it's own."

Geez, that's pretty harsh.  Well, I guess the Mako has it's own special audience of fans.  Despite the true shortcomings even I cannot deny, the vehicle always treated me well.  I remember the first and only time I encountered the crazy Mako glitch where it starts having mid-air convulsions.  I was laughing, good times though.  Thanks for clearing that up for me though.

[JackShepard]

BRING IT BACK, BIOWARE!
At least with the Mako, I could pretend to be filming an edisode of Galactic Top Gear

Tonight! 

Richard drives up a sheer cliff!

James falls into some lava!

and I take on a thresher maw... on foot!

*cue awsome Top Gear music*


The Hammerhead is just so... meh, with its armor made out of tissue paper soaked in gasoline and then laminated with plastic explosives. Who thought that was a good idea?

[Dave666]

JackShepard wrote...

BRING IT BACK, BIOWARE!
At least with the Mako, I could pretend to be filming an edisode of Galactic Top Gear

Tonight! 

Richard drives up a sheer cliff!

James falls into some lava!

and I take on a thresher maw... on foot!

*cue awsome Top Gear music*


The Hammerhead is just so... meh, with its armor made out of tissue paper soaked in gasoline and then laminated with plastic explosives. Who thought that was a good idea?

Damn that made me laugh! 

The hammerhead would be ok with an overhaul, but just ok.

I still vastly prefer the Mako, but then I never wanted it to go in the first place.  All they had to do was tweak the controls a bit, adjust the weighting and smooth out the maps a tiny bit.  Bioware's response?  Lets just remove it and everyone walks in tiny linear worlds.

[Sidac]

Why do people believe that the hammerhead is a tank when the codex calls it a fast attack vehicle? Even in the real world there is a MAJOR armor difference betweent he two.

NO MAKO UNLESSS I GET MY NECK BRACE BACK!

[Notanything]

JackShepard wrote...

BRING IT BACK, BIOWARE!
At least with the Mako, I could pretend to be filming an edisode of Galactic Top Gear

Tonight! 

Richard drives up a sheer cliff!

James falls into some lava!

and I take on a thresher maw... on foot!

*cue awsome Top Gear music*


The Hammerhead is just so... meh, with its armor made out of tissue paper soaked in gasoline and then laminated with plastic explosives. Who thought that was a good idea?

Personally, I see both vehicles as being useful for specific terrains.  I know people say that the Hammerhead would be better for all terrain, but I feel for instance, in a derelict city, urban environments, small valleys perhaps, that is where the Hammerhead would excel and fit most.  The Mako I feel is more belonging in a wide open zone, fighting in a wide open area, not too cramped.

Modifié par Notanything, 06 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[Dave666]

Sidac wrote...

Why do people believe that the hammerhead is a tank when the codex calls it a fast attack vehicle? Even in the real world there is a MAJOR armor difference betweent he two.

NO MAKO UNLESSS I GET MY NECK BRACE BACK!

There's a difference between fast attack vehicle and blows up when shot at by geth wielding Assault Rifles though.  Colossus fire? Sure, that makes sense (and is easier to dodge), but Assault Rifles? Really?

[Sidac]

Dave666 wrote...

Sidac wrote...

Why do people believe that the hammerhead is a tank when the codex calls it a fast attack vehicle? Even in the real world there is a MAJOR armor difference betweent he two.

NO MAKO UNLESSS I GET MY NECK BRACE BACK!

There's a difference between fast attack vehicle and blows up when shot at by geth wielding Assault Rifles though.  Colossus fire? Sure, that makes sense (and is easier to dodge), but Assault Rifles? Really?

Some common standard F.A.V.s have ZERO armor on them and can be taken out with assault rifles and other small arms fire fiarly easily. 

*puts on tin foil hat and warps to the future*

They could have beefed up the armor against assult rifles a little but standard assault rifles today are loaded with ammo that goes right through bullet proof vests and other light armor very easily.  but yea, it could have been outfitted with more than toilet paper for armor.

Modifié par Sidac, 06 avril 2011 - 04:12 .

[Notanything]

I felt the Hammerhead's light armor was warranted, a kinetic barrier would be a nice addition though. The fragility of it though seemed reasonable though, the hover jets were relatively exposed, and overall, since it was meant to hover as a means for travel, I would assume it would mean that it would have to be light in weight, and armor.

[wizardryforever]

*sigh*  It seems that some people need to be reminded how easy it is to fight in the Hammerhead (and without using cover, on Insanity!).  www.youtube.com/watch

Now that that is covered, I'll say this.  Both the Mako and the Hammerhead have their flaws, no question.  The Mako is clunky and suffered from a poor physics engine coupled with poorly designed planets and mandatory operation (you had to drive it at least five times).  The Hammerhead has weak armor and shielding, a mostly audio cue for damage, and is accused of being "arcadey" (though I don't see it as much more so than the Mako, TBH).

I do not want the Mako to come back the way it was.  I won't become enraged and post hateful comments for anyone who listens if it does, but I will be sad.  If it is suitably improved, I might grow to like it in a way I never used to, but that's a fairly big if.  Nor would I want to have the Hammerhead back the way that it is, since it does not feel integrated into the game engine.  I'm fine with the combat mechanics for the most part, it's just the lack of saving, and the inability to get out of it wherever that bothers me.

I think one of the main things that led me to hate the Mako was the amount that it was forced on you.  Like I said, you had to drive it (and fight in it) at least five times, and any UNC missions featured Mako driving as mandatory as well.  The clunky controls and bad physics shine brighter with more exposure.  By contrast, the Hammerhead is not mandatory at all (since it is DLC), and only has five missions total in the entire game, which are much shorter than the Mako sequences were.  Less exposure means the flaws stand out less.  My opinion of course.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 06 avril 2011 - 04:33 .

[Terror_K]

Maybe BioWare should give us both and simply let people choose what they want to take out of the two. It's not like there's not enough room in the SR2 after all.

[Dave666]

Notanything wrote...

I felt the Hammerhead's light armor was warranted, a kinetic barrier would be a nice addition though. The fragility of it though seemed reasonable though, the hover jets were relatively exposed, and overall, since it was meant to hover as a means for travel, I would assume it would mean that it would have to be light in weight, and armor.

The thing is though, if something's that light in armour then you wouldn't take it into combat.  You'd just use it to get you to and from combat zones quickly.

[Terror_K]

Dave666 wrote...

Notanything wrote...

I felt the Hammerhead's light armor was warranted, a kinetic barrier would be a nice addition though. The fragility of it though seemed reasonable though, the hover jets were relatively exposed, and overall, since it was meant to hover as a means for travel, I would assume it would mean that it would have to be light in weight, and armor.

The thing is though, if something's that light in armour then you wouldn't take it into combat.  You'd just use it to get you to and from combat zones quickly.

Right. And we already have a perfectly capable shuttle for that, making the vehicle even more redundant in that sense.

I also can't help but notice that defenders of The Hammerhead always tend to speak about it from a purely gameplay perspective while ignoring the completely impracticality of the thing from a real-world perspective. And to be honest, it's the jarring, illogical nature of it all that's the biggest problem. The fact that it's more zippy and arcadey, etc. is for the most part its curse more than its blessing, even if these factors can make it a more "fun" experience gameplay wise. I'm sure somebody will say, "if it's so unrealistic and practical, how come it actually functions then?!" but that would be ignoring the fact that the nature of the Mass Effect universe has to shift and warp to accomodate it and make it work.

Modifié par Terror_K, 06 avril 2011 - 04:40 .

[JG The Gamer]

Terror_K wrote...

JG The Gamer wrote...

The problem some have with the Mako, is trying to scale a mountain. It can be a bit tedious in some places. If the Hammerhead was on some ME1 worlds, scaling would never be a problem. Instead, Hammerhead users would be more worried about defenses. Whereas in ME2, the Mako would struggle in getting around easily.

In a nutshell, the Mako can fight anyone. The Hammerhead can go anywhere.

Actually the way the Hammerhead is designed it would fail miserably on most of the ME1 worlds, and that's one of its main issues, especially considering how much like real dead planets the ME1 ones resembled. The Hammerhead's engines require a fairly consistent and smooth surface beneath them to fuction, and with the rocky, bumpy and overall rough landscapes the Mako had to traverse it would fail, and a gradient much more than 40 degrees would see it slipping down backwards. Yes, The Hammerhead can leap, but it still needs to leap to a fairly flat and consistent surface or it'll either yet wedged on the landscape and stuck or end up just sliding back until things started to flatten out again. Perhaps with a sufficient boost it could make it up a slope, but even then said slope would have to be smooth and consistent. It could possibly leap its way up, but it would likely impale itself on a spiky rock coming back down.

Not necessarily impale itself. You can always hit the action button again, and you can hover somewhat, and ultimately slow your landing. And by the time you're in the air, you should already be deciding or have decided where you're going to land. And the leaping actually works better when you're not speeding across the landscape. Should you get stuck, leap again. Despite terrible terrain, The Hammerhead can get from Point A to Point B faster than the Mako unless there's a ton of enemies in the way. And then I'd want the Mako.

[lazuli]

Terror_K wrote...


I also can't help but notice that defenders of The Hammerhead always tend to speak about it from a purely gameplay perspective while ignoring the completely impracticality of the thing from a real-world perspective. And to be honest, it's the jarring, illogical nature of it all that's the biggest problem.

...for you.  Personally, I don't much care about realism in games.  That isn't to say I'm blind to plotholes or other things.  There are times when games break so strongly from realism that I get irritated (Why can't my level 99 Warrior Elf hop over this fallen log to get to the treasure chest?).  For the Hammerhead, I just remember that I'm playing a game.  That said, do not take this as a defense of the Hammerhead.  It's a fairly hateful vehicle, though I think the least of its problems is its lack of believability.

[Terror_K]

lazuli wrote...

Terror_K wrote...


I also can't help but notice that defenders of The Hammerhead always tend to speak about it from a purely gameplay perspective while ignoring the completely impracticality of the thing from a real-world perspective. And to be honest, it's the jarring, illogical nature of it all that's the biggest problem.

...for you.  Personally, I don't much care about realism in games.  That isn't to say I'm blind to plotholes or other things.  There are times when games break so strongly from realism that I get irritated (Why can't my level 99 Warrior Elf hop over this fallen log to get to the treasure chest?).  For the Hammerhead, I just remember that I'm playing a game.  That said, do not take this as a defense of the Hammerhead.  It's a fairly hateful vehicle, though I think the least of its problems is its lack of believability.

Well, the issues with its gameplay are also linked to its practicality to a degree (for example, it's poor armour and weapons are both a real-world practicality issue and a gameplay one), but you are right in that it also suffers other issues. Beyond its paper-thin armour and weak, slow weaponry, not being able to save in it or exit it, not having a proper HUD, etc. are purely gameplay factors that are big negatives.

The problem with The Hammerhead overall is that while it fixes The Mako's two main issues (i.e. speed and handling) pretty much every other single factor about the thing is worse than The Mako, and not by a small amount. And those two better factors do not in any way make up for how horrendously bad The Hammerhead is otherwise, both from a gameplay perspective and a real-world/practicality standpoint.