158 réponses à ce sujet

[Galad22]

I think Yahtzee's Deus Ex Song is perfect for here.

Just replace Deus Ex with origins.

www.youtube.com/watch

[DAO MAdhatter]

Anastassia wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I agree that DA:O was uninspired, but how is at worst second best selling Bioware game of all time not a resounding success?

it was slammed by all sorts of reviewers and gamers alike. Personally, I enjoyed DA:O and found it to be a great RPG experience, but just as with DA2 now, those of us who enjoyed the game have their voices drowned out by the vehement naysayers. And that's fine, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it drives me absolutely insane to see these people, and sometimes the exact same people, who harped on DA:O for being a ****ty game now holding it up like it's Baldur's Gate 2. Hypocrites annoy the hell out of me.

The same thing that happeneded to Fable II is happening to Dragon Age 2. I like to call it Nestalgia. A mistical self induced dellusion of making something appear as if it better than it actually is just cause you cant handle its sequal not being a carbon copy of the game you fell for when you were ten.... Or something along those lines.

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 03 avril 2011 - 09:20 .

[Galad22]

Anastassia wrote...

it was slammed by all sorts of reviewers and gamers alike. Personally, I enjoyed DA:O and found it to be a great RPG experience, but just as with DA2 now, those of us who enjoyed the game have their voices drowned out by the vehement naysayers. And that's fine, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it drives me absolutely insane to see these people, and sometimes the exact same people, who harped on DA:O for being a ****ty game now holding it up like it's Baldur's Gate 2. Hypocrites annoy the hell out of me.

It was slammed much much less than the hammering DA2 is getting, It got better reviews from everywhere and people on average liked it much more.

[bEVEsthda]

neubourn wrote...

I applaud them for taking a chance and trying to make something different. I loved DA:O, but it was always kinda boring to me...it was all typical "traditional" stuff, and i didnt really feel excited because none of it was "new." It was simply the same rehashed stuff from other, older RPGs and fantasy stories. And yes, this may be comforting to some, "if it aint broke dont fix it" crowd, but not everyone feels that way.

Oh, they probably failed, but they didn't take any "chance", and they definitely didn't make anything "new". And they didn't bring anything "forward" or "evolved" anything.

They did the contrary to all these things. Like most other video gaming genre's, they just took another (big) step backwards to the very old, very cliche, simple, linear videogame, where you're shoved forward on a map/track and fight the baddies, pick up the glowing 'jewels', to end up against a boss, which then takes a long time to whittle down, and then you progress to the next section, where all of it reiterates again.

This type of videogames have always existed. They seem to still attract kids. Because kids brains aren't developed enough to handle complex things. Complex things are 'boring'. And because they're too young to yet have had their fill of this crap.

Different genres started to be invented in the late '80'ies, early 90'ies. And there was, for a while, a spread out of genres, like a fan. Already then, these games were more complex, and there was more interesting things going on, than in your typical XB360/PS3 game today. BG was one of them.

For various reasons, many of them total mysteries, the big publishers have purchased developers and franchises, to close them down or contort their games back to the old 'fight/jump-jewels-boss' paradigm. Most videogame genres today converge back towards this primitive mould.

There are many reasons for this. I don't intend intend to discuss them here much, beyond pointing out that:
Some of it is probably a kind of 'religion', a kind of 'education' of game designers: "This is what a videogame does, this is what it is, this is how it should be".
And that those few developers which didn't go back to the stoneage, and managed to remain independant, are doing very well.  Bioware was long one of them. But the real irony is that the BG saga is still their most advanced game. In terms of complexity of of what goes on for the gamer.

There was a long time when us mature gamers (who represent a majority of the market btw) figured this dumbing down of games would stop, once the graphics had got to the level where they had made the big strides. The problem today seem to be the consoles. Their technology is only evolved to do graphics well. In terms of gameplay they're far more limited, which makes it comfortable to just step back into the old Donkey Kong.

  

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Anastassia wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I agree that DA:O was uninspired, but how is at worst second best selling Bioware game of all time not a resounding success?

it was slammed by all sorts of reviewers and gamers alike. Personally, I enjoyed DA:O and found it to be a great RPG experience, but just as with DA2 now, those of us who enjoyed the game have their voices drowned out by the vehement naysayers. And that's fine, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it drives me absolutely insane to see these people, and sometimes the exact same people, who harped on DA:O for being a ****ty game now holding it up like it's Baldur's Gate 2. Hypocrites annoy the hell out of me.

I honestly don't remember a whole lot of gamers and reviewers slamming it. Then again, despite my register date, I barely visited the forums. I just played and enjoyed. Was originally planning to do the same for DA2, but much of the direction & the interviews put me off. Demo was the final nail in me not getting the game on release though. Was like Oblivion all over again. Lol.

The main groups of people that did however were probably people who didn't like the combat amongst other things. I got that impression a lot. Game was too slow, combat was too slow. Things like that. That and the "zomg Tolkien ripoff" types of complaints. Is that what you're referring to?

If it is, then I can try to explain how some people feel. It's nostalgia and comparative context.

It's less about people thinking DA:O = Amazing. It's about people thinking DA:O = Amazing compared to DA2.

The shorter development time just made things worse. Let's not mince words. They didn't design the game to be more accessible to make it a better game. They did it to sell more copies and get more money. EA has a track record of making studios doing this.

So obviously people will be upset.

Sure haters gonna hate. Always will, always have. But I think in this case, there's merit to the arguments they make.

[vantick]

The OP  could have elaborated with what he felt went wrong. A detailed explanation would have been better than a simple,

sympathy4saren wrote...

It ruined many things about the franchise.

In response though, what would you have them do? Keep everything the same throughout all their games? New ideas always have to be tried out, it's how games improve. Whether such ideas are good or bad are up to the community to decide. No doubt Bioware would listen to and consider any feedback or well-thought out criticism given to them.

[DAO MAdhatter]

bEVEsthda wrote...

neubourn wrote...

I applaud them for taking a chance and trying to make something different. I loved DA:O, but it was always kinda boring to me...it was all typical "traditional" stuff, and i didnt really feel excited because none of it was "new." It was simply the same rehashed stuff from other, older RPGs and fantasy stories. And yes, this may be comforting to some, "if it aint broke dont fix it" crowd, but not everyone feels that way.

Oh, they probably failed, but they didn't take any "chance", and they definitely didn't make anything "new". And they didn't bring anything "forward" or "evolved" anything.

They did the contrary to all these things. Like most other video gaming genre's, they just took another (big) step backwards to the very old, very cliche, simple, linear videogame, where you're shoved forward on a map/track and fight the baddies, pick up the glowing 'jewels', to end up against a boss, which then takes a long time to whittle down, and then you progress to the next section, where all of it reiterates again.

This type of videogames have always existed. They seem to still attract kids. Because kids brains aren't developed enough to handle complex things. Complex things are 'boring'. And because they're too young to yet have had their fill of this crap.

Different genres started to be invented in the late '80'ies, early 90'ies. And there was, for a while, a spread out of genres, like a fan. Already then, these games were more complex, and there was more interesting things going on, than in your typical XB360/PS3 game today. BG was one of them.

For various reasons, many of them total mysteries, the big publishers have purchased developers and franchises, to close them down or contort their games back to the old 'fight/jump-jewels-boss' paradigm. Most videogame genres today converge back towards this primitive mould.

There are many reasons for this. I don't intend intend to discuss them here much, beyond pointing out that:
Some of it is probably a kind of 'religion', a kind of 'education' of game designers: "This is what a videogame does, this is what it is, this is how it should be".
And that those few developers which didn't go back to the stoneage, and managed to remain independant, are doing very well.  Bioware was long one of them. But the real irony is that the BG saga is still their most advanced game. In terms of complexity of of what goes on for the gamer.

There was a long time when us mature gamers (who represent a majority of the market btw) figured this dumbing down of games would stop, once the graphics had got to the level where they had made the big strides. The problem today seem to be the consoles. Their technology is only evolved to do graphics well. In terms of gameplay they're far more limited, which makes it comfortable to just step back into the old Donkey Kong.

  

Yay... Another computer elitest douchebag. 
Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
So your part of manority now, so get used to games being made for people who dont play games with RTS, super button combos, complex control scemes & epic 100 hour completion times.  

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 03 avril 2011 - 09:46 .

[KalDurenik]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Origins was built and founded upon traditional rpg roots. Why did BioWare feel the need to progress the Dragon Age series? It ruined many things about the franchise.

What progress? I dont see any progress?

[Akka le Vil]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

The same thing that happeneded to Fable II is happening to Dragon Age 2. I like to call it Nestalgia. A mistical self induced dellusion of making something appear as if it better than it actually is just cause you cant handle its sequal not being a carbon copy of the game you fell for when you were ten.... Or something along those lines.

"nostalgia", "not a carbon copy".
Yay, a compilation of all the retarded clichés you see in every single forum for every single sequel when anyone point a flaw in the new game.
/facepalm

[DAO MAdhatter]

KalDurenik wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Origins was built and founded upon traditional rpg roots. Why did BioWare feel the need to progress the Dragon Age series? It ruined many things about the franchise.

What progress? I dont see any progress?

WTF are you talking about?

What... Better graphics, funner combat, a character that talks, companions that actually have personalities, an improved UI & A story that isnt a clechie of every other rpg story isn progress to you? You must have been dropped on your head as a baby.

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 03 avril 2011 - 09:57 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Origins was built and founded upon traditional rpg roots. Why did BioWare feel the need to progress the Dragon Age series? It ruined many things about the franchise.

What progress? I dont see any progress?

WTF are you talking about?

What... Better graphics, funner combat, a character that talks, companions that actually have personalities, an improved UI & A story that isnt a clechie of every other rpg story isn progress to you? You must have been dropped on your head as a baby.

Speaks for itself.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 03 avril 2011 - 10:01 .

[DAO MAdhatter]

double post

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 03 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[Akka le Vil]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

I wasnt saying everyone had nestalgia, It just seems a lot of people who are ****ing about this game seem to be suffering from the same BS the Fable TLC fans suffer from. Others are nit pickers who hate EVERYTHING, & then there is a FEW people who have a lagitmate gripe with this game. From what I seen in my breef stay in these forums most people fall into the former two catagories.

Oh yes, there is a sh*tstorm all over the gaming forums about how hard DA2 has failed, it has got very mixed reviews, with several downright murderous ones, but it's "A FEW" people who have legitimate gripe with the game ! All others are nostalgia-filled tools or HATERS !!!!!!

Well, no point arguing with a fanboy. They are the gaming equivalent of the religious fanatics, little things like obviousness and facts won't really impact their devoted minds...

[abaris]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
 

Yeah, sure. There's absolutely no such thing as pirated console copies. An old Aerosmith song comes to mind: Dream on.

[DAO MAdhatter]

Akka le Vil wrote...

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

I wasnt saying everyone had nestalgia, It just seems a lot of people who are ****ing about this game seem to be suffering from the same BS the Fable TLC fans suffer from. Others are nit pickers who hate EVERYTHING, & then there is a FEW people who have a lagitmate gripe with this game. From what I seen in my breef stay in these forums most people fall into the former two catagories.

Oh yes, there is a sh*tstorm all over the gaming forums about how hard DA2 has failed, it has got very mixed reviews, with several downright murderous ones, but it's "A FEW" people who have legitimate gripe with the game ! All others are nostalgia-filled tools or HATERS !!!!!!

Well, no point arguing with a fanboy. They are the gaming equivalent of the religious fanatics, little things like obviousness and facts won't really impact their devoted minds...

Ya. I just took back my post. I think you said this **** storm is what happens for every game. If im wrong correct me.

[bEVEsthda]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...
Yay... Another computer elitest douchebag. 
Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
So your part of manority now, so get used to games being made for people who dont play games with RTS, super button combos, complex control scemes & epic 100 hour completion times.  

Yay... Another dumb kid who skipped school to play. (see - I can do that too)
Yes, pirates are much to blame.
100 hour completion time. Yes thanks.
Who said anything about 'super button combos' or 'complex control schemes'?
I was solely refering to what goes on in the game.

Market research says most gamers are above 30, and a sizeable portion above 40, Though from what publishers insist on peddling, you could easily get a different notion.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 03 avril 2011 - 10:12 .

[DAO MAdhatter]

abaris wrote...

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
 

Yeah, sure. There's absolutely no such thing as pirated console copies. An old Aerosmith song comes to mind: Dream on.

But its a million times easier to catch a pirate on a console than it is on a computer. People there get the xbox & PS3s bricked all the time cause they cheat.

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 03 avril 2011 - 10:14 .

[bEVEsthda]

abaris wrote...

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
 

Yeah, sure. There's absolutely no such thing as pirated console copies. An old Aerosmith song comes to mind: Dream on.

It's not piracy as such. It's the dramatic availability that internet and things like Pirate Bay and bit torrent provided. It directly killed many big games. Piracy is the big part of why retailers and publishers have remade the market towards consoles. If you believe anything else, you're part of a sect where they sit and lie to each other on how piracy "helps market good games" whatever. I.e you'd be a pirate yourself.

[DAO MAdhatter]

bEVEsthda wrote...

DAO MAdhatter wrote...
Yay... Another computer elitest douchebag. 
Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
So your part of manority now, so get used to games being made for people who dont play games with RTS, super button combos, complex control scemes & epic 100 hour completion times.  

Yay... Another dumb kid who skipped school to play. (see - I can do that too)
Yes, pirates are much to blame.
100 hour completion time. Yes thanks.
Who said anything about 'super button combos' or 'complex control schemes'?
I was solely refering to what goes on in the game.

Market research says most gamers are above 30, and a sizeable portion above 40, Though from what publishers insist on peddling, you could easily get a different notion.

The majority of people Iv played with over xbox live were like 20 year olds. I dont know were your getting your facts from. Maybe your compter elitist friend Phil who lives lives in his mommas basement?

Anyways... Your still part of a manority that the big name game makers no longer care to cater to.

So any BS you you speak doesnt matter.

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 03 avril 2011 - 10:19 .

[DAO MAdhatter]

bEVEsthda wrote...

abaris wrote...

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

Hey listen up... The compter as a gameing device is almost dead thanks to the pirates. & most people who play games now play them on consoles.
 

Yeah, sure. There's absolutely no such thing as pirated console copies. An old Aerosmith song comes to mind: Dream on.

It's not piracy as such. It's the dramatic availability that internet and things like Pirate Bay and bit torrent provided. It directly killed many big games. Piracy is the big part of why retailers and publishers have remade the market towards consoles. If you believe anything else, you're part of a sect where they sit and lie to each other on how piracy "helps market good games" whatever. I.e you'd be a pirate yourself.

This is actually one of the few things I agree with. Pirates sucks!

[Akka le Vil]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

Ya. I just took back my post. I think you said this **** storm is what happens for every game. If im wrong correct me.

*sigh*
No, what I said is that for EVERY sequel/follow-up/new game that get a mixed reviews, there is ALWAYS a large band of fanboys that come in and discard the critics by using the typical pannel of overused "arguments" (and I use this word very loosely, because they're just pretext and usually have absolutely no ground) :

- "you're just mad it's not a carbon copy of X"
- "you've your nostalgia google/rose-tinted glasses on"
- "you can't stand change ! Obviously ANY change is ALWAYS better !"

Regardless of the quality of the game, regardless of the validity of the complaints, you'll ALWAYS get the fanboys to use them. Always. Every single time.

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

Market
research says most gamers are above 30, and a sizeable portion above
40, Though from what publishers insist on peddling, you could easily get
a different notion.

The majority of people Iv played
with over xbox live were like 20 year olds. I dont know were your
getting your facts from. Maybe your comper elitist friend Phile who
lives lives in his mommas basement?

Anyways... Your still part of a manority that the big name game makers no longer care to cater to.

So any BS you you speak doesnt matter.

Probably that "gamers" and "people playing on Xbox" hardly refers to the same demographics.

And it's funny to see a kiddo trying to mock adults about "living in his momma's basement".

Thanks for proving all the caricatures about the public that DA2 catered to.

[bEVEsthda]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...
The majority of people Iv played with over xbox live were like 20 year olds.

Oh, I don't doubt that at all. Though I would have thought they were more like 14,..  and damaged someway.

[Akka le Vil]

FEGuy wrote...

I feel like I should apologize for loving this game. With you guys calling me a religious fanatic and all. Havent you ever felt passionate for anything in your life.

"liking a game" and "being a fanboy" are two very different things. You can like something and still recognize its flaws (many in these forums actually do).
"fanboys" are the retarded part of the population who will just defend something blindly.

And actually, it's funny you ask about being passionnate. It's BECAUSE they are passionnate about their, well, passion, that "hardcore gamers" are upset about the systematic dumbing down of game to please the casual idiotic crowd.
It's the casual player who is NOT passionnate and only want to kill/pass time with action-filled, thoughtless interactive movies. The guy who got a passion is the one banging his head on a wall because he sees it destroyed because of the mass-market watering down.

[DAO MAdhatter]

Akka le Vil wrote...

And it's funny to see a kiddo trying to mock adults about "living in his momma's basement".

Thanks for proving all the caricatures about the public that DA2 catered to.

I may be a loser now, but m slowly gaining my independance witch is more than  than some of these douckebags who live & breath computer games & dont want to grow up.

Oh & screw you! Condisending know it all blow hard. Your probably just as much of a loser as the other guy!