111 réponses à ce sujet

[PrinceLionheart]

Though I'm not a fan of her romance, Tali always pegged me as "Shepard Sexual." I don't play as FemShep but I suppose its better to have the option than to not to. I also know Thane was suppose to be the "Gay Option" for MaleShep and apparently at one point Miranda was also FemShep love interest, but personally I think Garrus and Tali both fit the "interested in only Shepard" role better.

[Mr.House]

yorkj86 wrote...
In real life?  People don't actually believe this, do they?

I take it understanding sarcasm is not your strong suit?

[Pacifien]

yorkj86 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
Everyone is bi.

In real life?  People don't actually believe this, do they?

I'm just going to remind people that their discussion is restricted to the Mass Effect series because getting into real world sociopolitical discussions go horribly wrong 100% of the time. Yes, 100% of the time.

[JamieCOTC]

Shadow Broker Dossiers/Tali'Zorah vas Neema

   -Upgraded interface GUI for relic technology(Fee authorization: Project Haestrom)
    -Upgraded suit diagnostics for radiation detection(Fee authorization: Project Haestrom)
    -Upgraded omni-tool for enhanced data integrity(Fee authorization: Project Haestrom)
    -Upgraded translator for all human languages
    -Installed suit application, NutriScan 2.2
    -Installed suit application, EnginMaster 3.6:Human Vessels
    -Installed suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Downloaded entertainment vid, "Exiles:Portraits of the Lost Quarians"
    -Installed prototype defense suit, ShieldJack 0.8(Authorization Adm. Han'Gerral vas Neema)
    -Upgraded medical scanning and quarantine suite
    -Ran process, Infection Treatment(IsolateD)
    -Downloaded education vid, "Dealing with Loss"
    -Uninstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Reinstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Downloaded education vid, "Understanding Body Language:Human Edition"
    -Downloaded entertainment vid, "Fleet and Flotilla"
    -Uninstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Downloaded education vid, "Human Courtship and Mating"
    -Installed suit application, Immunoboost:Professional Edition
    -Reinstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro:Deluxe Edition

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When my femShep read this, she was like, “Holy, crap, Tali. I had no idea you felt this way …”
Seriously, what does this prove?  It proves that BW can be lazy, especially when it comes to femShep.    Just like Tali’s dialogue, the dossier is the same no matter what gender you play.  Linking suits has nothing to do w/ romance, but the way Tali says it, in that “shy girl” voice, it sounds like a come on.  So, instead of changing Tali’s inflections in that scene for femShep, BW just left it there.  80% of the players weren’t going to see it anyway, so who cares?  Right.  <_<

Personally, I don’t think Tali is bi, but if someone wants to take advantage of another  BW femShep SNAFU and assume that she is ... I. Don’t. Care.

[expanding panic]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Shadow Broker Dossiers/Tali'Zorah vas Neema

   -Upgraded interface GUI for relic technology(Fee authorization: Project Haestrom)
    -Upgraded suit diagnostics for radiation detection(Fee authorization: Project Haestrom)
    -Upgraded omni-tool for enhanced data integrity(Fee authorization: Project Haestrom)
    -Upgraded translator for all human languages
    -Installed suit application, NutriScan 2.2
    -Installed suit application, EnginMaster 3.6:Human Vessels
    -Installed suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Downloaded entertainment vid, "Exiles:Portraits of the Lost Quarians"
    -Installed prototype defense suit, ShieldJack 0.8(Authorization Adm. Han'Gerral vas Neema)
    -Upgraded medical scanning and quarantine suite
    -Ran process, Infection Treatment(IsolateD)
    -Downloaded education vid, "Dealing with Loss"
    -Uninstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Reinstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Downloaded education vid, "Understanding Body Language:Human Edition"
    -Downloaded entertainment vid, "Fleet and Flotilla"
    -Uninstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Downloaded education vid, "Human Courtship and Mating"
    -Installed suit application, Immunoboost:Professional Edition
    -Reinstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro:Deluxe Edition

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When my femShep read this, she was like, “Holy, crap, Tali. I had no idea you felt this way …”
Seriously, what does this prove?  It proves that BW can be lazy, especially when it comes to femShep.    Just like Tali’s dialogue, the dossier is the same no matter what gender you play.  Linking suits has nothing to do w/ romance, but the way Tali says it, in that “shy girl” voice, it sounds like a come on.  So, instead of changing Tali’s inflections in that scene for femShep, BW just left it there.  80% of the players weren’t going to see it anyway, so who cares?  Right.  <_<

Personally, I don’t think Tali is bi, but if someone wants to take advantage of another  BW femShep SNAFU and assume that she is ... I. Don’t. Care.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it was for Fem Shep. Maybe she likes Jacob or Zaeed or joker. Doesn't mean she likes Fem Shep. Just stating the obvious. Not saying your wrong Just saying its not definitive proof that she is Bi or whatever.

[Bamboozalist]

expanding panic wrote...
That doesn't necessarily mean that it was for Fem Shep. Maybe she likes Jacob or Zaeed or joker. Doesn't mean she likes Fem Shep. Just stating the obvious. Not saying your wrong Just saying its not definitive proof that she is Bi or whatever.

That's really, really unlikely though since all her dialouge towards Shepard even as a femshep is about her doing what she does for Shepard and what not, also her and Jacob aren't exactly, well yeah...Cerberus and all that.

    -Installed suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Uninstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Reinstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Uninstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro
    -Reinstalled suit application, Nerve-Stim Pro:Deluxe Edition

Tali is such a naughty girl...

[Krimson_Wolf]

I'm kinda glade they took it out. I don't see Tali in that way.

[Someone With Mass]

Aw, Tali. If you wanted to know about human courtship and mating, all you had to do is ask.

Well, at least she know what she wants.

[lolfanboi]

If it isn't implied that they are gay, then it is assumed that they are straight. Life works that way.

[PrinceLionheart]

lolfanboi wrote...

If it isn't implied that they are gay, then it is assumed that they are straight. Life works that way.

Problem with that is Tali wasn't "implied" to be straight either. Nothing about Tali's sexuality is mentioned in the first game. So playing that card doesn't fly. 

[android654]

Geth_Prime wrote...
Someone at BioWare is homophobic or needs to grow a pair. Tali/FemShep romance would be awesome, can't they see that?

This!

Seriously, if you're going to be afraid to release this stuff, why bother creating it in the 1st place. Why can Laidlaw's team get away with it but not his one?

[Nodscouter]

Really? Homophobic? For not including a same-sex romance? REALLY?
What's wrong with Tali/Manshep? It'd basically be the same thing. I really have no idea why people call them homophobic or cowardly.

[android654]

Its more about the hypocrisy to me. They create the content and then strip it before they publish it, it makes their "explanations" seem rather suspicious.

[Seboist]

Slighty OT but was there any indication there was a Femshep/Jack romance that was cut? It seems odd she's not a femshep LI considering she implies she's BI several times.

[jeweledleah]

maybe they stripped it because they couldn't figure out how to implement thane/maleshep well given Thane's backstory and the trigger for starting romance (you can initiate it after he tells you about his wife...which barely works for me when it comes to femshep hitting on him, its definitely not a good opening for a guy to hit on him, I would think) and decided that another bi LI that's for female characters only, while there's STILL no male/male relationship would be unfair, so they stripped both?  edited to add - it would be just as challenging to write Garrus and Jacob as they both tell you about experiences with women, so you'd have to figure out how to create an opening for romantic beginning that doesn't seem out of place

just a thought. sometimes content gets removed not because people are homophobic, or hypocritical, sometimes it gets removed due to time and budget constraints. there are 6 romances and 11 squadmates on release. have you noticed how much ambient dialog they have everywhere?

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 avril 2011 - 02:56 .

[android654]

@Seboist, I'm pretty sure its only implied from her personal dialogue. I haven't seen any stripped content with Jack in it at all.

jeweledleah wrote...

maybe they stripped it because they couldn't figure out how to implement thane/maleshep well given Thane's backstory and the trigger for starting romance (you can initiate it after he tells you about his wife...which barely works for me when it comes to femshep hitting on him, its definitely not a good opening for a guy to hit on him, I would think) and decided that another bi LI that's for female characters only, while there's STILL no male/male relationship would be unfair, so they stripped both?  edited to add - it would be just as challenging to write Garrus and Jacob as they both tell you about experiences with women, so you'd have to figure out how to create an opening for romantic beginning that doesn't seem out of place

just a thought. sometimes content gets removed not because people are homophobic, or hypocritical, sometimes it gets removed due to time and budget constraints. there are 6 romances and 11 squadmates on release. have you noticed how much ambient dialog they have everywhere?

When Bioware was pressed about no M/M relationships they simply said that "Sheppard's not gay." Why not simply say, "We couldn't find a good way to tie in Thane and Malesheppard due to the back story we had for Thane. We tried to work around it by adding elements to his personal story, and omitting a few things that weren't essential to the character. Unfortunately we didn't meet the deadline by the time we began recording. So with that in mind, we decided to strip it, for the betterment of the character and the overall interaction between him and the player."

If it was omitted because it compromised the integrity of the project, why not say something like that, instead of Just saying Sheppard isn't gay?

Modifié par android654, 06 avril 2011 - 03:11 .

[jeweledleah]

brain fart? it was shorter and more encompassing answer then admitting that certain content was cut due to lowest priority? I don't know, but I highly doubt that the reason was homophobia.

[android654]

I'm not arguing, I'm simply saying if the problem was they couldn't figure out how to do it properly, that would be a lot better than simply saying, nope, he isn't gay. It also seems weird since Bioware's second biggest franchise has those elements, and still has its fanbase.

Well that's debatable after DA2, but in all the reviews that demoinzed the game, the "Gay content" wasn't the problem.

[Bamboozalist]

jeweledleah wrote...
it would be just as challenging to write Garrus and Jacob as they both tell you about experiences with women, so you'd have to figure out how to create an opening for romantic beginning that doesn't seem out of place

Garrus would be the easiest to write since he flat out states that he's not interested in humans only Shepard.

[jeweledleah]

Garrus tells you about his experience with FEMALE scout. they would have to rewrite that entire story, probably changing it so that he never uses gender pronoun...at a minimum. of course that also makes it interesting in terms of translating to other languages, since unlike English, in a lot of languages verbs also denote gender. OR... they would have to figure out a different opening for maleshep, to start the romance.

android - no, gay content in DA2 was not the problem. lack of polish, multitude of bugs, DLC situation, in your face retcons ( characters that you killed off in your DAO/DAA import coming back to life, among other things), and railroading that puts ME2 and its Cerberus situation to shame was the problem. DA2 is a good game. but compared to bioware's other offerings? yeah...

[Bamboozalist]

jeweledleah wrote...

Garrus tells you about his experience with FEMALE scout. they would have to rewrite that entire story, probably changing it so that he never uses gender pronoun...at a minimum. of course that also makes it interesting in terms of translating to other languages, since unlike English, in a lot of languages verbs also denote gender. OR... they would have to figure out a different opening for maleshep, to start the romance.

And? When you're deal with humans that makes sense but when you're dealing alien races, cross species gender starts to not matter especailly with Tali and Garrus since any real physical relationship isn't exactly really feesible with the two of them.

Modifié par Bamboozalist, 06 avril 2011 - 06:37 .

[jeweledleah]

Bamboozalist wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Garrus tells you about his experience with FEMALE scout. they would have to rewrite that entire story, probably changing it so that he never uses gender pronoun...at a minimum. of course that also makes it interesting in terms of translating to other languages, since unlike English, in a lot of languages verbs also denote gender. OR... they would have to figure out a different opening for maleshep, to start the romance.

And? When you're deal with humans that makes sense but when you're dealing alien races, cross species gender starts to not matter especailly with Tali and Garrus since any real physical relationship isn't exactly really feesible with the two of them.

and....the way they set up an opening for Tali wasn't gender specific.  She tells you that linking suits can be both gesture of trust (like her mother and aunt)  and intimacy and that she never trusted another quarian that much, but she trusts Shepard.  its not gender specific and its vague enough that they dind't have to rewrite it in any way.  it was open ended enough to work the same way as Liara worked.

Garrus's romance opening was as much as you'd like to deny it - gender specific  it seems that when it comes to Turians, sex is very similar for them to the way humans see it. can be done as recreational activity and is done between oposite genders at least some of the time.  so.  in order to make that opening feasible for a male shepard as well as female shepard, they would have to write it differently, becasue the way they wrote it as it exists right now - straight turian males just fight to release stress and males/females may fight...or they may go ahead and have sex in adition (or instead).  I'm not saying that gay turians don't exist, but I am saying that current romantic opening doesn't work so well for a male Shepard.  you can say that developers wrote themselves into a corner with that one. 

was the opportunity there? concidering how much Garrus trusts and respects shepard and concidering that its interspecies relationship - yes, opportunity was there, just as it was for Tali.  I'm not entirely sure how they could have written it, and maybe that's part of the problem?   Maybe if they had written that scout story to show that Turians basicaly fight (or have sex with) each other more or less indiscriminately of gender?  maybe if they wrote a wholy different story and a completely different opening?  who knows.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 avril 2011 - 07:13 .