Games can have a great story and be linear, just take GTA for example, that gives you small elementsa of choice but follows a linear pattern. I don't underestimate the writers ability. Im sure they could write a fantastic linear story and to me I'd prefer that rather than getting to the point where immersion is spoiled because dead characters didnt die etc. I would rather lose choice and have a consistent story than have tons ogf choice but a story that doesn't make alot of sense.
Maybe there could be a canon I'd be up for it
Débuté par
DanteCousland
, avril 03 2011 08:17
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#2
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 08:35
MadMoskus
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I agree 
Look ak KotOR. It has a linear story which is decided before you play, but you still have lots of choices, and it has the same feeling as Dragon Age when you play.
Look ak KotOR. It has a linear story which is decided before you play, but you still have lots of choices, and it has the same feeling as Dragon Age when you play.
#3
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 08:44
JediHealerCosmin
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You'll have to forgive me, but I am against any type of canon.
There are some situations... well... a lot of situations where people have completely different oppinions. To take Kotor as an example, there were many people who enjoyed playing as a female and who preffered the Dark Side path. Then the canon came along, saying that Revan was male and a Light Side Jedi Knight.
It's like knocking on a gamer's door and telling him/her that their choices don't mean anything as soon as they opened it.
The same happened with Kotor2. I personally played a male and followed the romance plot with Visas Marr. To this day, that is my favorite romance in any video game that I played. And it's not even BioWare, which scares me a little.
When the canon for this game was also declared with the Exile being female and so on, it made me feel like the experience I enjoyed was meaningless.
But heck, that's just my oppinion. Also, when discussing these games it's also fun to hear what people decided to choose. So, what I'm trying to say is that a player canon can work a lot more than an official canon.
There are some situations... well... a lot of situations where people have completely different oppinions. To take Kotor as an example, there were many people who enjoyed playing as a female and who preffered the Dark Side path. Then the canon came along, saying that Revan was male and a Light Side Jedi Knight.
It's like knocking on a gamer's door and telling him/her that their choices don't mean anything as soon as they opened it.
The same happened with Kotor2. I personally played a male and followed the romance plot with Visas Marr. To this day, that is my favorite romance in any video game that I played. And it's not even BioWare, which scares me a little.
When the canon for this game was also declared with the Exile being female and so on, it made me feel like the experience I enjoyed was meaningless.
But heck, that's just my oppinion. Also, when discussing these games it's also fun to hear what people decided to choose. So, what I'm trying to say is that a player canon can work a lot more than an official canon.
#4
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 08:47
Persephone
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Not want. Not want. NOT WANT the evil C word!
#5
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 08:51
Malja
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Cosmin made some great points. YMMV and such, but canon really does not make me excited for those reasons. And more. Definately more.
#6
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 09:05
TheBlackBaron
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I'm fully in favor of a canon story so long as it conforms to what I did in the games. Otherwise BioWare shall witness the firepower of this fully armed and operation website of nerds.
Also, on the KotOR/II examples: a canon for those games was to be expected. Star Wars and the EU being what it is, there's no way they could get away with the flexible player-based canons the ME and DA:O teams are attempting. So I don't find myself much caring much about it...although you will never convince me otherwise that the Exile wasn't male.
Also, on the KotOR/II examples: a canon for those games was to be expected. Star Wars and the EU being what it is, there's no way they could get away with the flexible player-based canons the ME and DA:O teams are attempting. So I don't find myself much caring much about it...although you will never convince me otherwise that the Exile wasn't male.
#7
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 09:17
Arppis
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
I'm fully in favor of a canon story so long as it conforms to what I did in the games. Otherwise BioWare shall witness the firepower of this fully armed and operation website of nerds.
Weapons are charged and ready, sir.
*Salute*
#8
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 09:17
JediHealerCosmin
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
although you will never convince me otherwise that the Exile wasn't male.
Hehe, glad that I'm not alone on that. I told myself that they can take their canon and shoot a fireball up their a*** with it
Still, I understand why they did it. After all, this was declared when TOR was early in its production. The two protagonists will be mentioned, but there won't be too many details (if you don't count the fact that one of them is "reborn" - whatever that means).
In any event, for the moment I like the way BioWare is handling things. Sure, not everything is explained, but that doesn't mean that the series is over.
And I agree with Persephone. The C word is evil and should be killed with fire
Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 03 avril 2011 - 09:18 .
#9
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 09:24
Maria Caliban
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Mass Effect was planned as a trilogy around a specific hero so I appreciate wanting to see reactivity stretch over the games.
Outside of ME, for most RPGs, I'd much rather all reactivity happen within the game. I read that there are about 400 plot flags from Origins to Witch Hunt that are all bundled into the save file. How horribly perverse.
Alternatively, there was 0 carry over between Fallout 3 and Fallout NV and no one seemed to care. The Witcher 2 will have no carry over. Dungeon Siege III will have no carry over. Skyrim will have no carry over. Etc.
Outside of ME, for most RPGs, I'd much rather all reactivity happen within the game. I read that there are about 400 plot flags from Origins to Witch Hunt that are all bundled into the save file. How horribly perverse.
Alternatively, there was 0 carry over between Fallout 3 and Fallout NV and no one seemed to care. The Witcher 2 will have no carry over. Dungeon Siege III will have no carry over. Skyrim will have no carry over. Etc.
#11
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 10:49
Lord Gremlin
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No, the very reason I like Dragon Age is that there is no canon and your choice matters. Well, DA2 disappointed me but not completely, I'm willing to give DA3 a chance.
I will be blunt: DA has sub-par graphics and awful combat. But I enjoy this customizable, non-canon story so much that I'm willing to forgive almost anything.
I will be blunt: DA has sub-par graphics and awful combat. But I enjoy this customizable, non-canon story so much that I'm willing to forgive almost anything.
#12
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 10:55
DanteCousland
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Didnt Da2 show that our choices don't really matter whilst giving us incoherenct plot devices?.
#13
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 10:58
Darth Krytie
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DanteCousland wrote...
Didnt Da2 show that our choices don't really matter whilst giving us incoherenct plot devices?.
No.
#14
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 11:22
Deztyn
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Canon isn't bad. Linear events aren't bad. It's offering the choice than taking it away that grates on so many people. DA2 gave us many moments when we're allowed to say no only to have the game say "Oh, you're playing it wrong you meant to say yes, so we're going to treat it as if you did" that's more objectionable than just not offering the choice in the first place.
#15
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 11:30
Lord Gremlin
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It's more like... People have different tastes and play games for different reason. For example, I have God of War 3 and love it. Why would I want a game with much worse visuals, performance and combat? Like Dragon Age?Deztyn wrote...
Canon isn't bad. Linear events aren't bad. It's offering the choice than taking it away that grates on so many people. DA2 gave us many moments when we're allowed to say no only to have the game say "Oh, you're playing it wrong you meant to say yes, so we're going to treat it as if you did" that's more objectionable than just not offering the choice in the first place.
Because GoW3 is a fixed, linear, canon story. And Dragon Age allows me to choose the outcome of major events (DA2 failed a bit here, but I've bought it because of DAO).
To summarize: if DAO haven't offered the choice I wouldn't even try it in the first place: it would have been just another "RPG" game, only worse than Oblivion, Gothic and others.
#16
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 11:34
sylvanaerie
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Some things no matter what choices you make become Canon.
Anders doesn't die in Awakenings and becomes a Grey Warden (whether or not you turn him over to the Circle when you first meet or he is left behind in Vigils and you are told he dies) Also his epilogue card with my Cousland import said he stayed with the Grey Wardens.
Yet a year later he is in Kirkwall...Plot>choices and plot will always take precedence.
Wynne can be dead in some playthroughs, yet she turns up in Awakenings with a quest.
Of course, both of these are spirit healers so I guess you can point out they may have not died for that reason but *shrug* that's pushing it.
Leliana is present at the end of DA2 (or in Sebastian's act 3 quest if you have the DLC) when some people have killed her following despoiling the ashes. Guess you didn't see her grab that potion as she was going down...and her head was rolling 20 feet from her body...
Some things become Canon for the sake of storytelling. I didn't mind seeing Leliana, she had a nice comment about my Cousland girl in "Exile".
Anders I could have done without.
Anders doesn't die in Awakenings and becomes a Grey Warden (whether or not you turn him over to the Circle when you first meet or he is left behind in Vigils and you are told he dies) Also his epilogue card with my Cousland import said he stayed with the Grey Wardens.
Yet a year later he is in Kirkwall...Plot>choices and plot will always take precedence.
Wynne can be dead in some playthroughs, yet she turns up in Awakenings with a quest.
Of course, both of these are spirit healers so I guess you can point out they may have not died for that reason but *shrug* that's pushing it.
Leliana is present at the end of DA2 (or in Sebastian's act 3 quest if you have the DLC) when some people have killed her following despoiling the ashes. Guess you didn't see her grab that potion as she was going down...and her head was rolling 20 feet from her body...
Some things become Canon for the sake of storytelling. I didn't mind seeing Leliana, she had a nice comment about my Cousland girl in "Exile".
Anders I could have done without.
#17
Posté 03 avril 2011 - 12:17
Deztyn
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Lord Gremlin,
I'm not suggesting a completely linear story. But if we're going to get railroaded I'd rather the game was upfront about it. The Shepherding Wolves quest is a good example of what I mean. You can refuse to accept the quest in dialogue options. Petrice ignores you telling her no, and you're forced to do it anyway, because it's a main quest and the story can't proceed without it. I'd rather no choice than a meaningless choice.
I'm not suggesting a completely linear story. But if we're going to get railroaded I'd rather the game was upfront about it. The Shepherding Wolves quest is a good example of what I mean. You can refuse to accept the quest in dialogue options. Petrice ignores you telling her no, and you're forced to do it anyway, because it's a main quest and the story can't proceed without it. I'd rather no choice than a meaningless choice.
