158 réponses à ce sujet

[stobie]

Torax wrote...

stobie wrote...

Really, all the Origins stories were good. I also liked both dwarf ones. I did the human one, and it was good, too. I just didn't feel the same connection to that one.

The Human one is interesting I guess. It definitely ends at a sad moment. Much like the Dalish one. The mage one feels slow to me, but that is only cause you start off in the fade that was pretty cool. Then you do a lot of wandering around the tower. Which made it feel a lot more like the Human Noble one. Dwarf ones had you moving a bit. City Elfs start off sort of slow but then you go into full on revenge mode.

I forgot the mage one, and she was my first character.  That one didn't seem as touching - I either get to be a twit & betray my friend, or help him do something really rather stupid.  The Casteless dwarf one was a really involving story, and Vaughn was so almost community theater bad that I had to track him down.  That story felt the most intense, and the Dalish one was the only one that actually made me weepy, when she leaves the clan.  The human ending is touching, though. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

If they return to something like the Origins system, I think the best way would be to have fewer 'entry points' but with greater overall impact on the story. Mage/non-mage has already been mentioned, but they could also potentially do them for different races. (Although that raises the issue of different VAs.)

I doubt we're ever going to see a PC that follows the Qun, unless you start as Qunari by default. (Which wouldn't necessarily mean being a big shirtless dude with horns, other species can also be Qunari in the religious sense.) The cultural gulf between the Qunari and the rest of the peoples we've met is huge, and the typical reactions of someone with that background would be very different to what you'd expect from a typical human or even a Dalish elf or Orzammar dwarf.

A Tal'Vashoth, on the other hand, could be another matter. This would also potentially allow a player to choose to be a horned giant while also being a female warrior. (Something that at the very least would be highly unusual under the Qun.) I can certainly see why a Qunari female with a talent for the battlefield might want to become Tal'Vashoth.

[Sanguinerin]

Theoretically they could use only one voice actor for the origins. Zevran doesn't speak with the normal Irish- or Welsh-based accents given to elves. It's clearly Antivan. If the player character adopted the accent of their culture--rather than a racial accent--then it could work neatly either way.

While I normally choose humans anyway, it was quite nice to have the option. Dragon Age is the only series that has ever given me a fondness for dwarves, and I did enjoy a couple of dwarf characters. Also, I do like the new elven appearance. I would like to play as an elf.

[Apollo Starflare]

Completely in favour of having them return. Although I love Hawke and the voiced protagonist used in DA2 that was largely the reason behind the Origins exclusion, if there is a way to have them come back (even if restricted to being a set of Origins for a Human character) I would welcome them with open arms.

Preferably though I'd like to see the team somehow find a way to bring back Elves and Dwarves as playable races. Not sure how it could happen with a voiced protagonist but it's definitely the dream.

Incidentally I felt the lack of a true 'Origin' for Hawke (ala a Lothering segment, perhaps set in the past even when Malcolm was alive) definitely harmed the effectiveness of the prologue. So even one true 'Origin' story for a voiced character would be an improvement in that area.

@HallowedWarden: Yeah I agree. I'd be interested to know how people would react to the game offering the three playable races - but with the same two VA's regardless. I wouldn't mind, but I'm sure some would say it was unrealistic or something hah.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 03 avril 2011 - 10:50 .

[Sanguinerin]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

@HallowedWarden: Yeah I agree. I'd be interested to know how people would react to the game offering the three playable races - but with the same two VA's regardless. I wouldn't mind, but I'm sure some would say it was unrealistic or something hah.

I was about to post on your other line about how to handle the voice over and tell you to look up, and then saw my name!

Personally, I would love to have the strong accent of my culture despite being dwarf, elf, or human. If my character was Antivan, then an Antivan accent despite possibly being a Dwarf Merchant, an Elf Servant, or a Human ... [Insert something here]. It makes sense, as language is quite fluid. If I was never raised with my Dalish Clan, but rather in the home of an Antivan or Orlesian Noble, then it's more likely I'll pick up on their languages. In my opinion, and I don't know how much others share it, I would be fine with that process as it's quite believable.

[David Gaider]

Ensgnblack wrote...
David, I appreciate your responding to this thread.  If I might offer a suggestion on future "multiple entry points":

The Origins in DAO were largely cosmetic.  Were you to include different starting points it would be nice to have them have more of an impact on the story than someone addressing you as human/elf/mage and possibly being a little  ruder or nicer to you.

I loved DAO and am enjoying DA2 quite a lot, but I would hate to see a feature such  as multiple entry points put in the game the same way DAO had it.  After the initial  intro, the game was 99% the same  regardless  of one's origin. 

Actually, come to think of it,  was this intentional?   Would it be possible to change up more than the occasional piece of dialogue without sucking too much resource requirement into the game?

It's a question of degrees as well as intent.

The Origins in DAO were intended largely to offer an introduction to the world, as well as give one main "hook" in the story later on. Since there were so many, there's a limited amount of actual variance we could do. If there were less Origins, their effect could certainly be more pronounced... with the trade-off being the amount of choice they offer. To a degree, it can be argued that once you start offering tailored Origins people might look to what they see missing ("why isn't there a Human Commoner?") rather than what's there.

But, yes, on the whole if we did it again I'd probably push for them to have greater impact down the line-- particularly since the need for an introduction would no longer be present.

[MAD WHITE HAM]

we love u David!

[Alexein]

It felt to me like DA2 was a giant origins story in *itself*, It's Hawke's origin story.

In DA:O, your character was introduced, went about their life in their own way, then crud hits the fan, Duncan comes in and BANG you're a grey warden and the story begins.

In DA2 Hawke is introduced, goes about life for Act 1, Crud hits the fan in Act 2, then BANG Hawke's the champion and the real story about the Mage-Templar war begins in Act 3.... to be continued in a later game.

So it feels to me DA2 *is* the origin story of Hawke, and DA:(insert future DLC or DA3 here) is the main story.

[Nighteye2]

David Gaider wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...
I really enjoyed the Origin stories in DA:O and think one game using them is not enough - the concept of Origin stories has a lot more potential to it that Bioware can use. In that line, players should also be able to select their species again - including the option to play Qunari this time, with a Qunari origin story. There is so much potential for interesting Origin stories in Thedas...it'd be a waste not to use it in DA3. :innocent:

I like the Origins, and could definitely see us returning to something similar in the future-- depending on the story in question. It need not be a way to introduce the world, as it was in DAO, but give a player different entry points into their personal story. So, yes, it's not out of the question at all.

That's good to hear
They would be multiple entry points, but they also offer an opporunity to further explore the world of Thedas. We know about Orlesians and Qunari, for example, but it would still be very interesting to play as them and experience life as them - living amongst them in an origin story and having the world respond to that part of your PCs identity as you play through the game.

[_Aine_]

Alexein wrote...


So it feels to me DA2 *is* the origin story of Hawke, and DA:(insert future DLC or DA3 here) is the main story.

To me DA2 was like " Thedas according to JAnders" .  Just because it was always me running around and getting the titles, I still didn't feel ( in the end) that the story was about Hawke at all.  Hawke just happened to be the story- central person but Anders was the guy pulling all the strings to the *ultimate* outcome.    NOTHING I could say or do, no choice could change that.  That was *huge* for my digesting the game really.  Could have been ANYONE in my shoes, but only Anders could have been Anders.  Or Justice. Whatever. THAT GUY who set things in motion anyway. 

I am very excited to hear Origin-type starts to the game are not discounted for future games.  That is very good news  I loved seeing the different origins, and seeing how they fit into the world.  Good to hear!  

Modifié par shantisands, 03 avril 2011 - 11:14 .

[Foolsfolly]

I have a weird question, but have you guys at BioWare noticed that Blizzard's taken the origins for their Diablo 3?

I was surfing yesterday and since I knew nothing of D3 (and being a fan of the other two) started watching trailers. Each class has its own unique origins like prologue. It actually makes me want to play the game because the idea of any kind of storytelling in a Diablo game intrigues me.

I love Diablo but come on, it's b.net hack/slash and loot drops that made that game not the story.

Did you guys ever think that others would see the Origins and pick them up?

[The Angry One]

Origins are a good idea and an efficient way of making character types feel unique.
Which is why it's such a shame that DA2 doesn't have any.

[Alexein]

shantisands wrote...

Alexein wrote...


So it feels to me DA2 *is* the origin story of Hawke, and DA:(insert future DLC or DA3 here) is the main story.

To me DA2 was like " Thedas according to JAnders" .  Just because it was always me running around and getting the titles, I still didn't feel ( in the end) that the story was about Hawke at all.  Hawke just happened to be the story- central person but Anders was the guy pulling all the strings to the *ultimate* outcome.    NOTHING I could say or do, no choice could change that.  That was *huge* for my digesting the game really.  Could have been ANYONE in my shoes, but only Anders could have been Anders.  Or Justice. Whatever. THAT GUY who set things in motion anyway. 

I am very excited to hear Origin-type starts to the game are not discounted for future games.  That is very good news  I loved seeing the different origins, and seeing how they fit into the world.  Good to hear!  

Keep in mind in most of the original origins stories things turned out the same way aswell. If you were a mage it didn't matter if you sided with or betrayed Jowan, you still left the circle. The Dwarf noble still got exiled from orzamar. Howe still killed the couslands. Etc.etc.etc. To say that nothing could be done about anders, and choice was taken away, is not very much different for the origin stories of the warden.

[JunMadine]

DA3 sort of will have origins if they allow you to chose between The Warden or Hawke as the player character. Or they could do what was done in Devil May Cry 4 play two different characters. Having one save the other and such.

[RosaAquafire]

I would really, really love to see Origins again. I LOVE Hawke, and I LOVE DA2, but being able to feel like my Hawke is singular and different than someone else's, and feeling that reflected in the story and how I'm treated ... I miss that.

I also really missed playing as an elf and dwarf. Elf, especially. It's NOT just an aesthetic choice. I don't really care much about the aesthetics, actually. It's about actually feeling a part of the more interesting cultures. Roleplay is a huge part of a roleplaying games, and I find elves and dwarves just have more interesting baggage in this world.

Visiting the alienage and the dalish camp just made me sad, as did the elves calling my Hawke "shem." I'm one of you in my heart, elf bros!

I'd absolutely love to see Origin stories make a comeback. Maybe less Origins (one per race) that do more later on and tie more into the story. I know it would be a pain for VA, but yes.

Also, I would pay exorbitant sums of cash to not have Hawke or the Warden be the PC in DA3. Please, please give us a new main character, please!

Modifié par RosaAquafire, 03 avril 2011 - 11:38 .

[Zjarcal]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I could see them doing a sort of hybrid. Have a protagonist be mostly silent, still track the way your responses tend to work like DA2, and then use the voice selected in the creator (like in DAO for battle cries) be used sporadically in cutscenes and such cinematic moments.

Otherwise during the conversations themselves the character could be silent.

Granted, I'd hate that. But I imagine a lot of people would like it.

Oh god no! I'd hate that too.

As for origin stories returning, I liked the origins in DAO, but if it means scrapping PC VO then no thanks. If they still were to implement PC VO even with different origins, then sure, I'd love that.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 03 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[PsychoBlonde]

David Gaider wrote...

But, yes, on the whole if we did it again I'd probably push for them to have greater impact down the line-- particularly since the need for an introduction would no longer be present.

Ooooooh.  :happy:  David, David, David, can we have Origins based on class instead of RACE maybe?  Or maybe a mixture of the two?  Since Thedas seems headed for Interesting Times, I'd love in DA3 (or 4, depends on how ya'll have the Future Plot laid out) to be a game where you start in different parts of the world due to the character you build and instead of immediately going to Ostagar immediately, you play the entire game in a very different order depending on where/how you start out, with the things you do in each section changing what you can do in other sections.

It would probably be an enormous pain in the ass to a.) write and b.) debug (sooo many dependencies!) but damn if that wouldn't be fun.

[stobie]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I would really, really love to see Origins again. I LOVE Hawke, and I LOVE DA2, but being able to feel like my Hawke is singular and different than someone else's, and feeling that reflected in the story and how I'm treated ... I miss that.

I also really missed playing as an elf and dwarf. Elf, especially. It's NOT just an aesthetic choice. I don't really care much about the aesthetics, actually. It's about actually feeling a part of the more interesting cultures. Roleplay is a huge part of a roleplaying games, and I find elves and dwarves just have more interesting baggage in this world.

Visiting the alienage and the dalish camp just made me sad, as did the elves calling my Hawke "shem." I'm one of you in my heart, elf bros!

I'd absolutely love to see Origin stories make a comeback. Maybe less Origins (one per race) that do more later on and tie more into the story. I know it would be a pain for VA, but yes.

Also, I would pay exorbitant sums of cash to not have Hawke or the Warden be the PC in DA3. Please, please give us a new main character, please!

Oh, I felt the same in the elf world.  My Hawke girl looks as much like my elf women as possible.  (My man-hawke is cute & all, but he can't compare to city-elf-man)  

However, I'd love to have my Warden or a Hawke as an option.  Another main character option - fine - but I find I sitll miss my Origins characters a lot.

[Zjarcal]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

But, yes, on the whole if we did it again I'd probably push for them to have greater impact down the line-- particularly since the need for an introduction would no longer be present.

Ooooooh.  :happy:  David, David, David, can we have Origins based on class instead of RACE maybe?  Or maybe a mixture of the two? 

That is actually an interesting idea that would make it easy to implement origins and keep the VO issue at bay.

[Merci357]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I would really, really love to see Origins again. I LOVE Hawke, and I LOVE DA2, but being able to feel like my Hawke is singular and different than someone else's, and feeling that reflected in the story and how I'm treated ... I miss that.

I also really missed playing as an elf and dwarf. Elf, especially. It's NOT just an aesthetic choice. I don't really care much about the aesthetics, actually. It's about actually feeling a part of the more interesting cultures. Roleplay is a huge part of a roleplaying games, and I find elves and dwarves just have more interesting baggage in this world.

Visiting the alienage and the dalish camp just made me sad, as did the elves calling my Hawke "shem." I'm one of you in my heart, elf bros!

I'd absolutely love to see Origin stories make a comeback. Maybe less Origins (one per race) that do more later on and tie more into the story. I know it would be a pain for VA, but yes.

Also, I would pay exorbitant sums of cash to not have Hawke or the Warden be the PC in DA3. Please, please give us a new main character, please!

Well said. And I don't think the VA problem has no workarounds, I guess it's not that difficult to think of lots of reasons why a human could have an American accent, or an elf an English. I'd rather prefer a logical solution why they can share the very same VA, then to go back and have a silent PC, again.

[stobie]

But they had a Merrill voice actor - I don't care what they do for the rest of them, but please, keep her! I'd be happy with Scottish dwarves, but actually, the grumpy American voice works pretty well for them, too. Just - keep the elves Celtic, please! And allow me now to put in a special Humbling Beg for those incredible green eyes.

[Vicious]

Basically, what David Gaider is saying is, there is another way to do Origins they might explore with DA3 and beyond.

And that 'other way' is the way Mass Effect did it. Except you actually get to play through it. Origin A B and C all wind up creating 'preset voiced protagonist' instead of 'Origin A B and C all create wildly different unvoiced protagonists.'


Regardless, I welcome it. Also added a lot of replay value, something sorely missing in DA2.

[Vicious]

Voiced protagonist isn't going anywhere after all. Yeah, consensus is divided. Some people like it, some people don't. But Bioware REALLY likes it, and that's the tipping factor.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

Ensgnblack wrote...
David, I appreciate your responding to this thread.  If I might offer a suggestion on future "multiple entry points":

The Origins in DAO were largely cosmetic.  Were you to include different starting points it would be nice to have them have more of an impact on the story than someone addressing you as human/elf/mage and possibly being a little  ruder or nicer to you.

I loved DAO and am enjoying DA2 quite a lot, but I would hate to see a feature such  as multiple entry points put in the game the same way DAO had it.  After the initial  intro, the game was 99% the same  regardless  of one's origin. 

Actually, come to think of it,  was this intentional?   Would it be possible to change up more than the occasional piece of dialogue without sucking too much resource requirement into the game?

It's a question of degrees as well as intent.

The Origins in DAO were intended largely to offer an introduction to the world, as well as give one main "hook" in the story later on. Since there were so many, there's a limited amount of actual variance we could do. If there were less Origins, their effect could certainly be more pronounced... with the trade-off being the amount of choice they offer. To a degree, it can be argued that once you start offering tailored Origins people might look to what they see missing ("why isn't there a Human Commoner?") rather than what's there.

But, yes, on the whole if we did it again I'd probably push for them to have greater impact down the line-- particularly since the need for an introduction would no longer be present.

Something like Suikoden III's Trinity Sight system comes to mind. Have three or so playable characters, from different factions. And each would have their own unique portions of the game and cross paths with each other as friends/enemies, and build up to a point where they all join forces with your main choice being the leader.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 04 avril 2011 - 12:23 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Zjarcal wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

But, yes, on the whole if we did it again I'd probably push for them to have greater impact down the line-- particularly since the need for an introduction would no longer be present.

Ooooooh.  :happy:  David, David, David, can we have Origins based on class instead of RACE maybe?  Or maybe a mixture of the two? 

That is actually an interesting idea that would make it easy to implement origins and keep the VO issue at bay.

I think you could do a voiced protagonist even if they let you play different races, personally.  They just need to go with a midwestern American accent (since they've established that there are Elves, Dwarves, Humans AND Qunari wandering about with this accent).  Oooh, wait.

At this time, I would like to put in for the VA for the DA3 protagonist to sound like a drawling Yank.  If you need a Female voice actor for this, I can TOTALLY pull it off.  SERIOUSLY.

Actually, given the weird-ass quality of my voice, I might be able to pass for a male protagonist too.  

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 04 avril 2011 - 12:32 .