212 réponses à ce sujet

[Corwyn]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

I must admit, I'm amused that a member of Bioware deigned to post in this thread rather in one of the many negative ones I see on the page.

Why? It's not like the moderator came in and high fived the OP he just asked people to keep it civil.  What are they going to say in most of the negative threads that would make anybody happy?  Most of the people with pitchforks accusing Bioware of selling thier souls aren't really interested in discourse about the game they just want to complain about what they didn't like and hear others agree with them.  

This isn't to accuse anybody who didn't like the game of being unreasonable just saying the people going on about how this is WORST GAME EVAR aren't going to be satisfied by anything a Bioware employee has to say, I don't blame the moderators for not bothering.

Modifié par Macgarnickle, 04 avril 2011 - 07:49 .

[Zanallen]

Takrandro wrote...

First, i like the Review the OP did, its nice and i agree for the most part.

However some of the others make some good points well, like Dragoonlordz's comic,that points out that the templars are as oblivious to u being a mage with exeption of the Knight-commander...

that really sucks..

It does, but it would be ridiculous if Bioware made the game so that everyone responded somehow to you being a mage. The scenario just would not work. Heck, even in BG2, the Cowled Wizards only bothered you once. Now, I could see a mission or area in a future game where there are consequences if you use magic within. Like maybe infiltrating a templar compound in DA3. You need to use stealth tactics and attempt to avoid combat at all costs and if you use magic you alert all of the guards around you.

[Corwyn]

Zanallen wrote...

Takrandro wrote...

First, i like the Review the OP did, its nice and i agree for the most part.

However some of the others make some good points well, like Dragoonlordz's comic,that points out that the templars are as oblivious to u being a mage with exeption of the Knight-commander...

that really sucks..

It does, but it would be ridiculous if Bioware made the game so that everyone responded somehow to you being a mage. The scenario just would not work. Heck, even in BG2, the Cowled Wizards only bothered you once. Now, I could see a mission or area in a future game where there are consequences if you use magic within. Like maybe infiltrating a templar compound in DA3. You need to use stealth tactics and attempt to avoid combat at all costs and if you use magic you alert all of the guards around you.

Exactly what else was Bioware supposed to do forbid mage class for story reasons or have Hawke spend the whole game fighting off templars, unable to talk to most quest givers who wouldn't deal with apostates?  People would be complaining even more about that.  In my opinion having most people not realize you were a mage is probably the best way they could have done it.

[Woodstock-TC]

Nice comic, but thats not my point. I found it exciting when it turned out that most Templars knew that the Champion was an apostate and why they were tolerating it.
That was marvelous. That was what i was concerned about.
Same applies to Fenris recognizing in the first mission that you are may be on the "opposite" side. Or Grace saying "i saw what you are.. how can you help the templars..?" Thats cool.

Regarding the "running around with a robe & staff" thing:; yes you are right, but there are also other more subtile outfits, and an override to remove stuff on the back. that doesnt really bother me half as much as if the story would completely disregard his/her magical powers.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Woodstock-TC wrote...

NPCs and templars gave cool and plausible comments about player char being a mage,somethingwhich was nearly completely missing in dao.

No, just no. Sorry.



Is more accurate than your comment specific one I quoted.

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 05 avril 2011 - 07:22 .

[Jorrkit]

Macgarnickle wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Takrandro wrote...

First, i like the Review the OP did, its nice and i agree for the most part.

However some of the others make some good points well, like Dragoonlordz's comic,that points out that the templars are as oblivious to u being a mage with exeption of the Knight-commander...

that really sucks..

It does, but it would be ridiculous if Bioware made the game so that everyone responded somehow to you being a mage. The scenario just would not work. Heck, even in BG2, the Cowled Wizards only bothered you once. Now, I could see a mission or area in a future game where there are consequences if you use magic within. Like maybe infiltrating a templar compound in DA3. You need to use stealth tactics and attempt to avoid combat at all costs and if you use magic you alert all of the guards around you.

Exactly what else was Bioware supposed to do forbid mage class for story reasons or have Hawke spend the whole game fighting off templars, unable to talk to most quest givers who wouldn't deal with apostates?  People would be complaining even more about that.  In my opinion having most people not realize you were a mage is probably the best way they could have done it.

I wouldn't think that most people, even Templars, would be able to tell a mage by sight... unless, of course, said mage is wearing robes and carrying a magic staff. Especially if said be-robed and be-staffed mage willfully engages the Templars in conversation.

"You wouldn't happen to be a...towel, would you?"
"If I were a towel, why would I be wearin this hat? And this fake mustache?"

[Zanallen]

Macgarnickle wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Takrandro wrote...

First, i like the Review the OP did, its nice and i agree for the most part.

However some of the others make some good points well, like Dragoonlordz's comic,that points out that the templars are as oblivious to u being a mage with exeption of the Knight-commander...

that really sucks..

It does, but it would be ridiculous if Bioware made the game so that everyone responded somehow to you being a mage. The scenario just would not work. Heck, even in BG2, the Cowled Wizards only bothered you once. Now, I could see a mission or area in a future game where there are consequences if you use magic within. Like maybe infiltrating a templar compound in DA3. You need to use stealth tactics and attempt to avoid combat at all costs and if you use magic you alert all of the guards around you.

Exactly what else was Bioware supposed to do forbid mage class for story reasons or have Hawke spend the whole game fighting off templars, unable to talk to most quest givers who wouldn't deal with apostates?  People would be complaining even more about that.  In my opinion having most people not realize you were a mage is probably the best way they could have done it.

I agree. I play it off as the game assuming that Hawke isn't stupid enough to go around casting spells in front of random people and templars.

[Zanallen]

Jorrkit wrote...

I wouldn't think that most people, even Templars, would be able to tell a mage by sight... unless, of course, said mage is wearing robes and carrying a magic staff. Especially if said be-robed and be-staffed mage willfully engages the Templars in conversation.

"You wouldn't happen to be a...towel, would you?"
"If I were a towel, why would I be wearin this hat? And this fake mustache?"

Meh, you don't have to wear robes and most of the staffs seem equipped with blades and such. You could play the mage staff off as a snazzy polearm and...Well, the chantry wears robes, right? They aren't mages.

[Gaius Octavian]

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

[Dubya75]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

That is your opinion.
DA2's shortcomings have been highlighted enough times. Looking beyond that, DA2 is in my opinion a great game.
If you don't like it, then I suggest you simply disagree. But don't insult me.

[Everwarden]

Dubya75 wrote...

Ronin2006 wrote...

Is this a joke?

Come on, you love Bioware and Dragon Age as much as I do, otherwise you would not have bothered looking at these forums or reading my post.

You be trollin'.

[Corwyn]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

I don't mind people who dislike DA2 but I never get the dumbed down arguement.  Did you ever at any point have trouble with DAO?  I enjoyed the game but let's be honest it wasn't a challenge, the combat actually got kind of boring at points it was just rinse and repeat, and let's not even get started on how easy it was to break the game with class builds.

[Takrandro]

Macgarnickle wrote...

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

I don't mind people who dislike DA2 but I never get the dumbed down arguement.  Did you ever at any point have trouble with DAO?  I enjoyed the game but let's be honest it wasn't a challenge, the combat actually got kind of boring at points it was just rinse and repeat, and let's not even get started on how easy it was to break the game with class builds.

Gaius, thats your opinion, however rude u bring it.. now go bother someone else. End of Discussion.

And mac, true, DA:O was easy to break that way but that does't take away that ppl had fun with it, altough i get the inpression in DA2 that the mage spells are a little soft compared to Origins, but then again, trying to balance stuff like that never is easy, no matter how u look at it

[Corwyn]

Takrandro wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

I don't mind people who dislike DA2 but I never get the dumbed down arguement.  Did you ever at any point have trouble with DAO?  I enjoyed the game but let's be honest it wasn't a challenge, the combat actually got kind of boring at points it was just rinse and repeat, and let's not even get started on how easy it was to break the game with class builds.

Gaius, thats your opinion, however rude u bring it.. now go bother someone else. End of Discussion.

And mac, true, DA:O was easy to break that way but that does't take away that ppl had fun with it, altough i get the inpression in DA2 that the mage spells are a little soft compared to Origins, but then again, trying to balance stuff like that never is easy, no matter how u look at it

Wasn't trying to take away from people who enjoyed DAO it's a great game, I myself enjoyed it enough to buy DA2:P.  My point was more that I don't understand how you can say one is dumbed down compared to the other.  

In my opinion they took about the same amount of skill and planning.  Actually I will say this, much as I disliked the repeated waves of enemies in DA2 it made me put more thought into whether I wanted to use a cooldown or waste mana on the first group.  

[Zkyire]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

Are you saying that any people who like the game are brainwashed fanboys?


Or that people who like the game and who don't recognise any of its flaws are brainwashed fanboys?

[mykeme]

We've been through this already. Dragon Age 2, despite being marketed as an RPG, is actually an adventure game with RPG elements. Leveling up is no longer RPG-exclusive - that was done in Prince of Persia; neither is inventory management - we had that in Dead Space. Dialogues in DA2 never offer you any real choice beyond the tone in which to agree with the NPC and the whole release-day DLC for intentionally cut content just screams "unethical business practice".

If this game wants to be viewed as an RPG, it should be reviewed as an RPG - in which case it sucks, period.

[shaneho78]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

While making unprovoked insults, sweeping generalisations and fallacious arguments, all you succeed in is making yourself look bad. 

Modifié par shaneho78, 04 avril 2011 - 10:59 .

[suprhomre]

Urik187 wrote...

those that fear change will forever repeat the same mistakes.

this is a solid post. and i fully agree. DA2 is a fantastic game and can stand on its own.

yep, it's

[Corwyn]

mykeme wrote...

We've been through this already. Dragon Age 2, despite being marketed as an RPG, is actually an adventure game with RPG elements. Leveling up is no longer RPG-exclusive - that was done in Prince of Persia; neither is inventory management - we had that in Dead Space. Dialogues in DA2 never offer you any real choice beyond the tone in which to agree with the NPC and the whole release-day DLC for intentionally cut content just screams "unethical business practice".

If this game wants to be viewed as an RPG, it should be reviewed as an RPG - in which case it sucks, period.

DAO had day one DLC too at least with DA2 it was possible to get the DLC free.  As for it sucking  that's your opinion and that's cool but it's still an just an opinion not a fact, I happen to think that it was an RPG and a one of the better ones I've played.  It could have used some more polishing but I still had a great time with it.

[Firky]

shaneho78 wrote...

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OP and his supporters are brainwashed fanboys and need to stop advocating sub-standard releases. Better atmosphere? All of your points are laughable and show you're the type of player they dumbed it down for. The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable. You are wrong. End of discussion.

While making unprovoked insults, sweeping generalisations and fallacious arguments, all you succeed in is making yourself look bad. 

Strangely, I find myself agreeing with someone called shaneho than someone called Gaius Octavian. I think this is what I'm most not cool with, "The gaming community is better off without people like you making devs think this kind of below par release is acceptable."

I'm as old school an RPG fan as it gets; my dad sat me on his knee to play the first Ultima, but any kind of hate campaign doesn't make the gaming community better off. It undermines valid criticisms and it makes gamers look childish. The gaming community will be better off when we can judge a game for what it is, not what it "should" be, and by should be, I mean - in your opinion.

Modifié par Firky, 04 avril 2011 - 11:09 .

[mykeme]

Macgarnickle wrote...

I happen to think that it was an RPG and a one of the better ones I've played.  It could have used some more polishing but I still had a great time with it.

You have zero evidence to support your belief that DA2 is an RPG other than what Bioware said about their own game they made knowing full-well it would suck, but doing it anyway for the money.

[Dubya75]

mykeme wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

I happen to think that it was an RPG and a one of the better ones I've played.  It could have used some more polishing but I still had a great time with it.

You have zero evidence to support your belief that DA2 is an RPG other than what Bioware said about their own game they made knowing full-well it would suck, but doing it anyway for the money.

Last time I checked people didn't need to provide evidence of their personal experiences.
This again is a case of "I am right, you are wrong" which really doesn't work in this instance.
However, if DA2 is NOT an RPG, please be so kind to provide your evidence of this.

[mykeme]

Dubya75 wrote...

Last time I checked people didn't need to provide evidence of their personal experiences.
This again is a case of "I am right, you are wrong" which really doesn't work in this instance.
However, if DA2 is NOT an RPG, please be so kind to provide your evidence of this.

But I did. Leveling up, having an inventory and followers does not constitute an RPG - lots of adventure and FPS games have done that before. They also have dialogue, albeit one that doesn't give you options to choose, or least not beyond "yes" and "no". But here's the thing - the same is true for Dragon Age 2. There is not a single important plot decision you can make that actually alters anything, anywhere and at any time. Your choices are limited to saying "Yes" in three flavors: helpful, humorous and ******. When you refuse a quest (and you can try this yourself), the NPC says "oh bummer. But in case you reconsider, here are all the details I would have given you if you agreed" at which point I want to just shut him up by hitting him with my sword and watching him explode like he was made out of bowling kegs glued together. But at that point it's too late because the quest already helped itself into your journal and will glare at you every time you want to open it and remind yourself how many deja vu-inducing chores you have to finish before you can get on with the "interesting stuff". But I use the word "interesting' loosely.

I'm not even going to go into the overarching plot which is absent. The point of the game is to get experience points and money, which is to say, it's about bigger and bigger numbers. If you flip the difficulty slider to "casual" and skip all the pointless, seemingly computer-generated secondary and side quests you can beat the game in under 8 hours and still feel no engagement to the story, no sense of involvement with a plot that flushes it's momentum down the drain at regular intervals until it seems like the writers are just ****ing with you to see what they can get away with. 

Modifié par mykeme, 04 avril 2011 - 01:03 .

[Dubya75]

mykeme wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Last time I checked people didn't need to provide evidence of their personal experiences.
This again is a case of "I am right, you are wrong" which really doesn't work in this instance.
However, if DA2 is NOT an RPG, please be so kind to provide your evidence of this.

But I did. Leveling up, having an inventory and followers does not constitute an RPG - lots of adventure and FPS games have done that before. They also have dialogue, albeit one that doesn't give you options to choose, or least not beyond "yes" and "no". But here's the thing - the same is true for Dragon Age 2. There is not a single important plot decision you can make that actually alters anything, anywhere and at any time. Your choices are limited to saying "Yes" in three flavors: helpful, humorous and ******. When you refuse a quest (and you can try this yourself), the NPC says "oh bummer. But in case you reconsider, here are all the details I would have given you if you agreed" at which point I want to just shut him up by hitting him with my sword and watching him explode like he was made out of bowling kegs glued together. But at that point it's too late because the quest already helped itself into your journal and will glare at you every time you want to open it and remind yourself how many deja vu-inducing chores you have to finish before you can get on with the "interesting stuff". But I use the word "interesting' loosely.

I'm not even going to go into the overarching plot which is absent. The point of the game is to get experience points and money, which is to say, it's about bigger and bigger numbers. If you flip the difficulty slider to "casual" and skip all the pointless, seemingly computer-generated secondary and side quests you can beat the game in under 8 hours and still feel no engagement to the story, no sense of involvement with a plot that flushes it's momentum down the drain at regular intervals until it seems like the writers are just ****ing with you to see what they can get away with. 

Well, that's rather strange! You must be playing a different DA2 than what I'm playing.
You see, in my game I have turned down requests to help people (Anders being one). I have also experienced two entirely different outcomes in the end.
I've also made choices that result in a party member leaving.
Oh, and I've also made choices about which characters to romance.
To me this feels a lot like an RPG.

Immersion is also to a large degree down to the player. If I race through on Casual then I'm sure I won't get immersed either.

Modifié par Dubya75, 04 avril 2011 - 01:13 .

[Pyrate_d]

Let's be honest, Dubya. You get immersed in trying to find matching socks every morning. I'm not overly concerned with your opinion on this.

[Dubya75]

Pyrate_d wrote...

Let's be honest, Dubya. You get immersed in trying to find matching socks every morning. I'm not overly concerned with your opinion on this.

Errrm...OK, thanks...I guess