352 réponses à ce sujet

[Sjofn]

Ryzaki wrote...
SHINING BEACON OF APOSTATE HOPE.  

Hee! I'm pretty sure my mage sort of shuffled his feet uncomfortably at that. Of course, that guy wound up romancing Merril. So maybe he was into it.

[Paraxial]

Even though this thread is a bit off-topic now, it's nice to see such disagreements be handled in a civil manner.

[Addai]

lizzbee wrote...
Heh, it's a shame, because for me it was a huge,giant, enormous complaint.  I was really hoping I wasn't alone in finding everything in those novels a huge disappointment.  They read just like a sportscaster spelling out each and every detail of set parts of Origins.  Like the description of the DW rogue pirouette during the beheading of the spider in the Deep Roads.  I actually saw my Lady Aeducan doing the little dance as I read  

Stolen Throne had a few introspective moments (sort of), but that was about it.  The Calling's Wardens all had the personalities of pieces of cardboard until the Fade.  Then again, I'm a big fan of character-driven stories.  Plot's usually secondary, unless it's utterly missing (like The Calling).

I'm sure you're not alone, but I couldn't disagree more.  *hides gigantic fanfiction ode to The Stolen Throne*  In fact, your complaint about them not being character driven... I don't even... 

This is not the thread for such a debate, however.

[mione]

Isabella for FemHawke~

It just seems more "right" given her history that she ends up with FemHawke. That and Ander's just seems more in tune to a MaleHawke. Merrill and Fenris either Male or Female seems fine.

[sassperella]

Personally I think that in playing the game you are building up your own personal idea of the characters as they behave in your playthrough. I don't think options should be limited just because I see one character a particular way in my game. What I think can be an issue is when people want to impose their playthrough on other peoples' playthroughs and say that their characters/npcs should be viewed in a particular way just because that's how they saw it.

I play with the view that in my game with my Hawke this is how the characters are and how they behave and am happy with that. If a lot more people did this there would be a lot less conflict about "My Anders is better than your Anders" Or "eww he can't be gay, he wasn't in my playthrough" etc.
I never did get the "I play this way so it has to be canon." view some people seem to have.

[Inujade]

I can only imagine Fenris with a male Hawke (his particular brand of slap slap kiss I think plays well off another man), but Isabella and Anders I can see going both ways (I thought Anders was bi in Awakening anyway, so it didn't take any getting used to ).

Merrill...well, please don't take offense Merrill fans, but I have a tough time imagining her with anyone. Not that I can't appreciate fanart and fic about her, I could just never play her romance. Just me though.

Also, every time romance is brought up I remember that Varric is not romancable, and this make me sad.

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

Kawamura wrote...

What part of your personality seems to be determined by your sexual orientation?

A gay Anders probably wouldn't be all that different, personality wise, from a straight one except that he boned dudes.

Apart from intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying to start an argument about environmental facters in sexuality, (lets face it, we're not psychologists here)  I think you might misunderstand what I'm saying in general and it might be because I'm not explaining it well enough. Everything, from the moment we're born, how we look, our parents, our environment, our genes, whether or not we have blue eyes or brown eyes, has some sort of affect on our personality, period. If you want to argue that point, I really have no interest, and we can simply disagree; at least from a literary perspective, these things have a massive affect on a character's development, and their race, religion, political viewpoint, sexual orientation, hair color and shoe size can be used by the writer to create a highly developed, rich, intriguing character.  The fact that sexuality is such a fertile stomping ground for writers and that it's sort of ignored or not really touched upon in this game (which does have great character development otherwise) is a little dissapointing.  I think Isabela was the one character thats the exception here; her sexuality being so open actually fits her character incredibly well; her whole shindig is freedom in all things, including sex, and this is who's she's been since the moment you met her in DA:O.  The same with Zevran in DA:O; he openly talks about his sexuality, his preferences, and even how they came about, in a way that made sense for his character.   If you want to get into "Why do you need justification" etc, then in the sense of the game, it's a matter of char dev.   People, in real life, also TALK about their sexuality.  Just like they do their beliefs or fears or hopes and desires, or their favorite foods.  You have conversations where you talk to your companions about these very such things.  In DA:O, Zevran tells you multiple tales of his sexual exploits, and explains his experiences and his preferences.   Even Alistair tells you he's a virgin and why, and Leliana hints that "noblewomen get into all kinds of things when they're bored."  Why is it so taboo to ask for the same sort of treatment for something like sexuality in the second game?  IMO it adds a ton of depth to the character.


  

[shoggoth1890]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Anders was in love with Justice. That's why he let the spirit into him.

Aww man, beat me to it.
Anders: Justice, I want you inside me.
Justice: Ok, this will hurt at first... I'm coming into you!

As for my perceptions...
Fenris: female.
Merril: female, though not exclusive.
Anders: male, though not exclusive (and not counting the Awakening Anders).
Isabela: male, her female flings are just for fun.

[Arnyhold]

I never really grasped why do the "superstraight" players find it annoying. You do not HAVE TO romance same sex players... You do not HAVE TO flirt with everyone who moves. Pick one or two and go for it if you like. You can actuallly choose their sexuality... In DA2 you almost cannot chose anything significant so I think this alone is a lesser mircale.

[helloween7]

Well, I imagine them as not being all necessarily bi (except for Isabela, of course), but having the sexuality each Hawke demands. For example, Anders only mentions being into men when romancing a male Hawke; when romancing a Lady Hawke, however, he doesn't even hint at Karl being more than a friend.

With Fenris all my Fem!Hawke got was that line by Danarius saying how "skilled" he was (and since he was a slave and didn't really have a choice in the matter it doesn't count as proof of anything).

I haven't romanced Merrill, so I'm not sure about her.

And, as I said, Isabela is Isabela.

So just as there isn't a hard canon Hawke or Warden, I just go with the idea that there isn't a canon sexuality for companions.

I'm perfectly okay with all LI being romanceable by both genders, actually. The mere possibility of same-gender romance is one of the things that makes Bioware great, IMO.

[Masako52]

Putting Fenris in a relationship with a female Hawke bothers me irrationally. It only makes sense to me with a man Hawke.

I always only play same-sex relationships, though. Well, once in Origins I married Alistair as a female Warden, and Alistair is pretty adorable, but Fem!Warden and Leliana are the best pairing.

[Mikka-chan]

Leilana really seemed to go best with a female Warden for me. I could see her with a male one, sure, and she was adorable enough that I think any male Wardens who want to go with her should totally do it, but for me, her love for M meant that I thought her moving on to the female Warden seemed natural and sweet.

But in DAII, I'm having trouble with that. I think I do prefer Merill with fem!Hawke, just because default Male!Hawke just seems so... big and RAWR I MANRY to me (which seems smothering to me), but a custom made Hawke can do away with a lot of that feeling, so it's not as big of an issue. And I guess the 'our kids (if we want them) will all be human! =/' adds some definite pathos to the relationship. ...Still, I like her better with a gal. Though Merill is my least favorite of the romances- I felt she had some growing up and searching the world to do before a huge romance would be healthyish for her.

(I support Carver and Merill, though! If Carver stops being a jerk, anyway. Which... might take a while, but we can wait. They're both still growing up.)

(Anders has just as much issues, but to be blunt, I don't think his are as easily solved and moved over as Merill. Merill can mature in a lot of obvious ways: Anders simply can't move past his issues as long as he's playing host to a (corrupted) fade spirit. Also, while Merill definitely loves Hawke and is happy in the relationship, I felt that her huge admiration/hero-worship was a bit of a problem- I'd rather see her build more self-confidence so she can see herself and Hawke as equals, first. On the other side, with Anders, the romance (at least in the first two acts) seems to be almost a calming influence: it's actually seems like a healthy thing that's helping him stay sane. It all goes up in explosions, of course, but... that's Anders.)

Because of the Karl plotline, I think male!Hawke works best for him, simply because, well, the Karl thing is pretty cool pathos. I wish it could have been brought up in the female romance: I mean, Isa mentions gals and guys (as did Zev and Lei), so why would it be so awful for Anders to? Foo.

Fenris and Isabella, I have no strong opinion on, similar as I did with Zev in DA. Fenris works for anyone who can love him despite his own phobia of love, and Isabella works for anyone who's strong enough to stay and wait till she's ready to fall in love. I could see either male or female Hawke with either.

[PoisonTheCity]

As much as I love Fenris/m!hawke art and fanfiction (possibly more than f!hawke at this point), I can't romance him as a male in my playthroughs.

Anders, on the other hand, I can only play with a male Hawke, for reasons I've tried and failed to pinpoint. Even as a f!hawke I still picture that he and Karl had a relationship, though.

Isabela, I can see with either, but it feels more 'right' with a female Hawke. Opposite deal with Merrill.

And ditto on Leliana's romance feeling more natural with a female Warden.

[vedlingtonii]

lizzbee wrote...
Heh, it's a shame, because for me it was a huge,giant, enormous complaint.  I was really hoping I wasn't alone in finding everything in those novels a huge disappointment.  They read just like a sportscaster spelling out each and every detail of set parts of Origins.  Like the description of the DW rogue pirouette during the beheading of the spider in the Deep Roads.  I actually saw my Lady Aeducan doing the little dance as I read  

Stolen Throne had a few introspective moments (sort of), but that was about it.  The Calling's Wardens all had the personalities of pieces of cardboard until the Fade.  Then again, I'm a big fan of character-driven stories.  Plot's usually secondary, unless it's utterly missing (like The Calling).

Just wanted to say that I know what you mean and I totally agree. I know the rule of thumb for writing is "show don't tell," but dammit, that does not mean "show everything and tell NOTHING." Those novels made my eye twitch.


That said!

Fenris is a total flame in my headcanon. I don't even know why, but seeing him with fHawkes on youtube elicits nothing but o_O reactions from me. Does not compute.

Anders is bi in headcanon, but I'd never romance him with anything but an mHawke because of additional imaginary angst factors. Also I love how Bethany mentions how much he reminds her of Daddy Hawke. Freud would adore that one.

Merrill is romancable? I like to pretend those heart options do not exist in her conversations. She is like... twelve.

Isabella totally straight. Totally. I don't know how anybody could even suggest otherwise. The very idea of womanlove is offensive to the morality of her character. Oops, sorry. I think I clicked the purple option.

Sebastian will never sleep with you because he is cowering in the closet. Chastity vow? Yeah right.


Also?

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

Modifié par vedlingtonii, 05 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[quickthorn]

I've romanced Fenris along both paths with femHawkes and wouldn't want to with a male.

Isabela I romanced with a femHawke but I'm sure either way would feel fine for me.

I don't like Anders and haven't tried to romance him at all, but if I tried later I'd go for a maleHawke.

Merrill - I honestly don't know. I tried initially with a femHawke and found the whole thing creepy, so I cleared the flag and went for Isabela instead. Maybe it was because it was a rivalmance. Merrill was treating femHawke like some kind of big sister figure she idolised, while femHawke was being quite disapproving. Not my thing. I may try again sometime with a maleHawke but I might find that worse.

[catabuca]

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

This. Definitely this. Apart from mHawke/Anders, they are my new OTP. OMG the angst. The hate!sex. The rage. Wow.

(And on the subject of the novels, my book-learnin' tells me I shouldn't, but I love them.)

[vedlingtonii]

catabuca wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

This. Definitely this. Apart from mHawke/Anders, they are my new OTP. OMG the angst. The hate!sex. The rage. Wow.

(And on the subject of the novels, my book-learnin' tells me I shouldn't, but I love them.)

Those two seriously have a HARDCORE rivalmance going on that any Hawke relationship pales in comparison to. I can't understand why more people don't see it. it's practically canon to me at this point.

[Kawamura]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

What part of your personality seems to be determined by your sexual orientation?

A gay Anders probably wouldn't be all that different, personality wise, from a straight one except that he boned dudes.

Apart from intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying to start an argument about environmental facters in sexuality, (lets face it, we're not psychologists here)  I think you might misunderstand what I'm saying in general and it might be because I'm not explaining it well enough. Everything, from the moment we're born, how we look, our parents, our environment, our genes, whether or not we have blue eyes or brown eyes, has some sort of affect on our personality, period. If you want to argue that point, I really have no interest, and we can simply disagree; at least from a literary perspective, these things have a massive affect on a character's development, and their race, religion, political viewpoint, sexual orientation, hair color and shoe size can be used by the writer to create a highly developed, rich, intriguing character.  The fact that sexuality is such a fertile stomping ground for writers and that it's sort of ignored or not really touched upon in this game (which does have great character development otherwise) is a little dissapointing.  I think Isabela was the one character thats the exception here; her sexuality being so open actually fits her character incredibly well; her whole shindig is freedom in all things, including sex, and this is who's she's been since the moment you met her in DA:O.  The same with Zevran in DA:O; he openly talks about his sexuality, his preferences, and even how they came about, in a way that made sense for his character.   If you want to get into "Why do you need justification" etc, then in the sense of the game, it's a matter of char dev.   People, in real life, also TALK about their sexuality.  Just like they do their beliefs or fears or hopes and desires, or their favorite foods.  You have conversations where you talk to your companions about these very such things.  In DA:O, Zevran tells you multiple tales of his sexual exploits, and explains his experiences and his preferences.   Even Alistair tells you he's a virgin and why, and Leliana hints that "noblewomen get into all kinds of things when they're bored."  Why is it so taboo to ask for the same sort of treatment for something like sexuality in the second game?  IMO it adds a ton of depth to the character.


  

I don't think blue-eyed Anders would have been much different than brown eyed if... that's where that was going?

[Trophonius]

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

Didn't you know? They've reached a whole new level of sexual tension and angst. The Alistair/Morrigan kind.

[vedlingtonii]

Trophonius wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

Didn't you know? They've reached a whole new level of sexual tension and angst. The Alistair/Morrigan kind.

I don't know, dude. Alistair/Morrigan had some pretty intense hatesex going on, but I think Fenris/Anders might surpass even them. They're practically biologically inclined to hate each other with the fiery burning of a thousand suns. Maybe the writers left their obvious relationship out of the game because them getting together would cause some kind of nuclear reaction.

Actually...

Maybe THAT'S what happened to the Chantry.

Modifié par vedlingtonii, 05 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[Kawamura]

vedlingtonii wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

Didn't you know? They've reached a whole new level of sexual tension and angst. The Alistair/Morrigan kind.

I don't know, dude. Alistair/Morrigan had some pretty intense hatesex going on, but I think Fenris/Anders might surpass even them. They're practically biologically inclined to hate each other with the fiery burning of a thousand suns. Maybe the writers left their obvious relationship out of the game because them getting together would cause some kind of nuclear reaction.

Actually...

Maybe THAT'S what happened to the Chantry.

I never understand how people could pair Alistair/Morrigan. Seems to me, she'd just laugh at his penis if he tried showing it to her and he would cry.

Unless that's sex.

[catabuca]

Kawamura wrote...


I never understand how people could pair Alistair/Morrigan. Seems to me, she'd just laugh at his penis if he tried showing it to her and he would cry.

Unless that's sex.

hahaha! I think you're right. Anyway, the Alistair/Morrigan version of the DR pretty much convinced me that there was nothing going on there (nor would there be). It felt so incredibly OOC for Alistair. Ugh. But anyway.

Yeah, Fenris/Anders is canon for me too. As is Carver's secret love for Fenris. I haven't decided whether it's unrequited or not yet though.

[Trophonius]

vedlingtonii wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

Didn't you know? They've reached a whole new level of sexual tension and angst. The Alistair/Morrigan kind.

I don't know, dude. Alistair/Morrigan had some pretty intense hatesex going on, but I think Fenris/Anders might surpass even them. They're practically biologically inclined to hate each other with the fiery burning of a thousand suns. Maybe the writers left their obvious relationship out of the game because them getting together would cause some kind of nuclear reaction.

Actually...

Maybe THAT'S what happened to the Chantry.

Sexytimes in the Chantry and no one knew about it. With all that passionate hate, you'd think they couldn't growl or groan any louder.

[vedlingtonii]

Kawamura wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

Fenris/Anders.

That's all.

Didn't you know? They've reached a whole new level of sexual tension and angst. The Alistair/Morrigan kind.

I don't know, dude. Alistair/Morrigan had some pretty intense hatesex going on, but I think Fenris/Anders might surpass even them. They're practically biologically inclined to hate each other with the fiery burning of a thousand suns. Maybe the writers left their obvious relationship out of the game because them getting together would cause some kind of nuclear reaction.

Actually...

Maybe THAT'S what happened to the Chantry.

I never understand how people could pair Alistair/Morrigan. Seems to me, she'd just laugh at his penis if he tried showing it to her and he would cry.

Unless that's sex.

I actually agree. Also most of their banters seemed to include a lot more pouting and eye-rolling and glaring and "no u" than pure venomous hatred. "I think we should put Alistair in the cage instead of Sten" < "I will rip your heart out."


What really happened in the Chantry Scene:

Fenris and Anders finally jumped each other's bones while you were busy talking to Orsino and Merideth. Half of Kirkwall exploded but you only really noticed the Chantry because it was conveniently in the background.

[Kawamura]

catabuca wrote...

Kawamura wrote...


I never understand how people could pair Alistair/Morrigan. Seems to me, she'd just laugh at his penis if he tried showing it to her and he would cry.

Unless that's sex.

hahaha! I think you're right. Anyway, the Alistair/Morrigan version of the DR pretty much convinced me that there was nothing going on there (nor would there be). It felt so incredibly OOC for Alistair. Ugh. But anyway.

Yeah, Fenris/Anders is canon for me too. As is Carver's secret love for Fenris. I haven't decided whether it's unrequited or not yet though.

I dunno about OOC or anything, it just seems like the poor guy wouldn't be able to preform with all her laughter.