352 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Anders--straight
Fenris--bi
Merrill--gay
Isabella--bi
Sebastian--straight

Why?

In order (and I'm just guessing):

Denial
He's an elf
I got nothing here
Duh
Mysogeny

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Has anyone actually written and GregoirxIrving sexytimes?

Yes.

That's adorable. I know everyone talks about it, but it's comforting to know that someone's written it.

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Anders--straight
Fenris--bi
Merrill--gay
Isabella--bi
Sebastian--straight

Why?

So... all that stuff I wrote under there about why didn't explain why?

@Ishmael-and I guess you didn't read that bit either. Misogyny? Say what?

Really, next time I might as well not bother with explanations where I explain my reasoning and examine possible biases. Everyone will just ignore it and jump to conclusions anyway.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 avril 2011 - 02:08 .

[Maria Caliban]

errant_knight wrote...

So... all that stuff I wrote under there about why didn't explain why?

@Ishmael-and I guess you didn't read that bit either. Misogyny? Say what?

Really, next time I might as well not bother with explanations where I explain my reasoning and examine possible biases. Everyone will just ignore it and jump to conclusions anyway.

I'm sorry.

[Robobot]

chill out bros and broettes. its all good

[errant_knight]

erilben wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

LOL, okay....
Regarding 'The Calling' and DG's statements... I haven't read the books and I kind of stopped paying attention to what DG said on the forums once he said that Alistair was 20 or 21. I find that gamebreakingly hard to believe, so I don't, be it fact ot not.  I go with closer to the toolset age.

How is Alistair being 32 years old more believable?

He doesn't look or sound anything like 20 to me. Do you think he does?

That aside, I think his story if far more poingnant if he's older.

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

So... all that stuff I wrote under there about why didn't explain why?

@Ishmael-and I guess you didn't read that bit either. Misogyny? Say what?

Really, next time I might as well not bother with explanations where I explain my reasoning and examine possible biases. Everyone will just ignore it and jump to conclusions anyway.

I'm sorry.

S'okay. Just took me by surprise.

[mesmerizedish]

errant_knight wrote...

@Ishmael-and I guess you didn't read that bit either. Misogyny? Say what?

It was a joke... because only a misogynist would wish Sebastian on women...

[errant_knight]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

@Ishmael-and I guess you didn't read that bit either. Misogyny? Say what?

It was a joke... because only a misogynist would wish Sebastian on women...

Ah!!!! See, I didn't get that, because I find him more likable than any of the characters besides Varric and Aveline. I was entirely confused.

[Sjofn]

errant_knight wrote...

erilben wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

LOL, okay....
Regarding 'The Calling' and DG's statements... I haven't read the books and I kind of stopped paying attention to what DG said on the forums once he said that Alistair was 20 or 21. I find that gamebreakingly hard to believe, so I don't, be it fact ot not.  I go with closer to the toolset age.

How is Alistair being 32 years old more believable?

He doesn't look or sound anything like 20 to me. Do you think he does?

That aside, I think his story if far more poingnant if he's older.

He sounds way closer to 20 than to 32 to me, 32 is waaaaay too old (says the 33 year old woman). I'd have him 23-ish at the oldest, personally, he is way too sweet and naiive and virginal to be in his 30's. That would make him a lot more pathetic to me. And I say this as someone who thinks Alistair is nifty.

There are also timeline things that make "early 20's" make more sense than "early 30's," such as him never being made a full-on templar.

Modifié par Sjofn, 06 avril 2011 - 02:48 .

[errant_knight]

Sjofn wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

erilben wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

LOL, okay....
Regarding 'The Calling' and DG's statements... I haven't read the books and I kind of stopped paying attention to what DG said on the forums once he said that Alistair was 20 or 21. I find that gamebreakingly hard to believe, so I don't, be it fact ot not.  I go with closer to the toolset age.

How is Alistair being 32 years old more believable?

He doesn't look or sound anything like 20 to me. Do you think he does?

That aside, I think his story if far more poingnant if he's older.

He sounds way closer to 20 than to 32 to me, 32 is waaaaay too old (says the 33 year old woman). I'd have him 23-ish at the oldest, personally, he is way too sweet and naiive and virginal to be in his 30's. That would make him a lot more pathetic to me. And I say this as someone who thinks Alistair is nifty.

There are also timeline things that make "early 20's" make more sense than "early 30's," such as him never being made a full-on templar.

You probably missed the beginning of the conversation that came up because I said that I purposely disregarded the timeline from the books, because it just made Alistair too young for it not to bug the heck out of me. I just think that he looks and converses more like someone in their late 20s to early 30s.

He comes from a very sheltered environment. He's spent the bulk of his life in what is essentially a monastary. A military monastary, but a monastary, nonetheless, so his idealism and sexual naivety isn't a bit surprising, whatever his age. And his virginity is only really worth comment (which he seems to think it it) if he's older than 20ish, at which time virginity would be completely normal outside our modern society. I think you're looking at it as though he lived now and grew up in our educational system, not as the product of a medieval religious environment.

[Sjofn]

It's not so much his actual virginity, but he is virginal. And if you're 30-ish and still like that, you move from "aw, cute" to "cripes, you are sad."

I also think you're the one putting today's norms on him, not me, given he'd be married or at least a semi-grizzled veteran in his 30's in a "medieval religious enviroment." I also think think "virgin at 20 is only noteable in today's modern society" is a nice thought, but incorrect. Especially for a dude. Even a semi-cloistered dude.

[errant_knight]

We'll just have to agree to disagree entirely.

[Maria Caliban]

I rather liked Sebastion. He has a temper but doesn't blow up building, murder his sister, constantly talk about how magic ruins everything, kill an innocent mage because she's frightened of him, or **** on Merrill while Merithari's body is still warm.

He says one thing I object to - the conversation where he suggests to Fenris they turn in the apostates - and I think that's a slip up on the writer's side. At no time previous to that does he show hostility to apostates or suggest that he thinks they should all be locked up.

He is the only male love interest I would ever consider romancing.

[MorningBird]

errant_knight wrote...
LOL, okay....
Regarding 'The Calling' and DG's statements... I haven't read the books and I kind of stopped paying attention to what DG said on the forums once he said that Alistair was 20 or 21. I find that gamebreakingly hard to believe, so I don't, be it fact ot not.  I go with closer to the toolset age. Anyway, I just think that things that paint all of a group of people as being the same are less than ideal. Out of deference to MorningBird, though...sure, they're all a bunch of horndogs.

Yay!  My fantasy world remains intact!

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I rather liked Sebastion. He has a temper but doesn't blow up building, murder his sister, constantly talk about how magic ruins everything, kill an innocent mage because she's frightened of him, or **** on Merrill while Merithari's body is still warm.

He says one thing I object to - the conversation where he suggests to Fenris they turn in the apostates - and I think that's a slip up on the writer's side. At no time previous to that does he show hostility to apostates or suggest that he thinks they should all be locked up.

He is the only male love interest I would ever consider romancing.

I agree completely! We haven't done that much lately. I'm going to take a minute to appreciate the moment.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[Anarya]

Ehh I generally prefer hetero pairings unless the character expresses a preference. So in Origins I liked Leliana and Zevran with females, but DA2's characters seem to either have subjective sexuality or be pansexual/Hawkesexual depending on how you look at it so I just pair whoever it is with the opposite sex and call it a day.

That said, I like having the option of s/s in my games because I like things to be inclusive even if I myself may not get much out of it. So I think the direction DA2 moved in on this front was a good one.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I rather liked Sebastion.

I don't

He has a temper but doesn't blow up building, murder his sister, constantly talk about how magic ruins everything, kill an innocent mage because she's frightened of him, or **** on Merrill while Merithari's body is still warm.

This is true.

He says one thing I object to - the conversation where he suggests to Fenris they turn in the apostates - and I think that's a slip up on the writer's side. At no time previous to that does he show hostility to apostates or suggest that he thinks they should all be locked up.

Really? He spends the entirety of Act III talking about how the mages need to be "put down." In fairness, he does say that both sides are despicable.

He is the only male love interest I would ever consider romancing.

Romancing Anders has been... painful, to say the least. The things I suffer for the sake of the story *sigh*

[DarthSliver]

Victorita9 wrote...

I love playing dragon age 2 romances and after the game i can only picture isabela ending up with a female hawke.

Or maybe someone romanced anders, merrill or feneris as a male ot female hawke and afterwards has a hard time imagining them with  a different gender hawke. Or not even able to romance them in a different gender?

What is your preference?

Well I think they should be bi, but feel there shouldve been a achievement for Romancing each character like last time. I say that because I felt i learned more about the my companion trying to Romance them more than anything.

[catabuca]

lilliful wrote...

And in case there was any doubt, no, I never feel that there needs to be at least one character who is only romacable by a single gender. That doesn't mean I don't mind characters who are, but I never feel they are necessary, or even enhance my experience. All the LI being bisexual, however, DOES enhance my experience. It gives me more choices. I really, really like choices. The closer BioWare gets to Baskin Robbins, the better, and plus I like ice cream.

I'm Queen Catherine and this is my favourite post in this thread.

Yeah, I have no real desire to see a strictly gay LI who is only romanceable by a male PC. It doesn't upset me to know that Anders is out there in the world getting jiggy with female Hawkes left, right and centre. So I guess that's why I find it odd some people are upset there isn't an LI (barring Seb, who doesn't count) who is only romanceable by an opposite-sex Hawke.

My heart still swells a thousand times each moment I remember what BW has done with this game. Choice. CHOICE! Real, honest to goodness, actual, real CHOICE for every single player of the game (even asexuals who would like to pursue a non-physical romantic relationship!).

CHOICE! <3

[LyndseyCousland]

happy_daiz wrote...

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Victorita9 wrote...
Anyone feel like a romanceable character should be romanced by one gender?

Not really, no. Variety is the spice of life.

Agreed.

I'm just hoping Cullen becomes a romance option in the next one...*sigh*

<3<3 Oh Cullen! 

[catabuca]

Now there's something I can get behind (fnar) ... a Cullen romance. Oh yes, yes indeed

[SirLysander]

catabuca wrote...

Anyone want a Gaider!quote on the subject?

David Gaider wrote...

I'm sorry, but just to chime in again-- how are we coming to the conclusion that the characters are either straight or gay, exactly? Considering that they don't generally discuss their sexuality with the player, the idea that their sexuality changes seems a bit bizarre when their actions don't. You can decide for yourself what they are-- that is indeed part of the point in leaving it to your interpretation-- but deciding that they are one thing or the other and calling this "not realistic" seems to me to be a little self-serving.

And, yes, they don't discuss their sexuality. Perhaps you'd prefer if they would. It strikes me that the only way some people will be happy is if we had an entire array of characters to romance-- some completely straight, some completely gay with maybe a few canonically bisexual characters for good measure. Enough to be "fair", and all of them covering the complete range of attractions for players of that persuasion.

I don't know about you, but that seems unlikely.

So as I said, we went with simply giving players the option of deciding for themselves, as well as interpreting for themselves. If some people are unhappy that they still didn't get the particular flavor they were looking for-- well, that's just too damned bad. As always, we're never going to be able to provide enough to suit everyone. At least in this case the people that don't like it can be equally unhappy, and I can live with that.

From here: http://social.biowar...ex/6576620&lf=8

With all respect to Gaider, that's lazy programming.  It's just as unlikely that 2/3rds of the characters you recruit (and 100% of the actual LIs) fall sway to Hawke regardless of gender.  On the other hand, we have six companions, and there's already functionality switches (albeit, for graphical things such as hiding HUD/permanent HUD. visible/invisible helmet/headwear, and so forth), and there is already programmatical gender-checking (for his/her comments, handsome/beautiful, etc) so it's programatically possible to have a toggle switch making three pairs of sexual viewpoints (one set heterosexual, one set bi, one set homosexual) or 'no' viewpoints (the default as exists in DA2.  Gripping hand, given DA2 couldn't make it past the starting gate without widespread and game-breaking bugs.... I may be having more confidence in the coders than might otherwise be appropriate.

Also, there's been much hay by the devs that no characters "force" a romance, but if you're merely nice to Anders in the beginning, you end up with three choices,  best described thusly:

Bernard Woolley: What if he demands options?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, it's obvious, Bernard. The Foreign Office will happily present him with three options, two of which are, on close inspection, exactly the same.
Sir Richard Wharton: Plus a third which is totally unacceptable.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Like bombing Warsaw or invading France.

Anders gives you the FO's three options - two of which are "Come to bed, Big Boy" and the last "Excuse me, I need to go kick a kitten."

When it comes down to it, Origin had achievements for each ofthe LIs as well as one for romancing all LIs.  In addition to race- and class-specific dialog, there was gender-specific dialog (c.f Alistair and the "but it would have to be a really pretty dress" comment) with it's own approval/disapproval settings.  In order to see it all, you had to change up your playing - gender, class, and race.  in DA2, it appears the only differences now come in the "mage" and "not mage" varieties.

[catabuca]

I've seen some pretty awesome differences through my friendmance and rivalmance runs of the same characters.

I've seen a difference in dialogue when romancing Anders as a male Hawke (the Karl discussion).

I've seen a difference in dialogue when romancing Fenris as a male Hawke (the 'does it bother you it was with another man' discussion).

Hmmm, yeah, a lack of difference between the romances -- nope, I'm afraid I'm just not seeing that.

And while your Foreign Office example is all very funny, saying the 2 heart options essentially ask Anders into your bed is exaggerating. I used one of the heart options in a game where I was romancing Fenris, and Anders didn't make one romantic move toward me after that point because I didn't pursue any heart icons after that one. What's more, the option I chose was the 'It's unexpected' option, which had Hawke say something along the lines of "It's not like I want you to stop" -- which in that run I interpreted as Hawke being a vain bugger who liked to know people found him attractive, even if he wasn't attracted to them.

The imagination is a powerful and wonderful thing.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I rather liked Sebastion. He has a temper but doesn't blow up building, murder his sister, constantly talk about how magic ruins everything, kill an innocent mage because she's frightened of him, or **** on Merrill while Merithari's body is still warm.

He says one thing I object to - the conversation where he suggests to Fenris they turn in the apostates - and I think that's a slip up on the writer's side. At no time previous to that does he show hostility to apostates or suggest that he thinks they should all be locked up.

He is the only male love interest I would ever consider romancing.

I liked Sebastian too. There was one banter he had once with Isabela that cemented his place as "a decent chap" in my book.

Isabela: It's been years, and not once have you tried to get me to repent or turn to the Maker.
Sebastian: Preaching seldom works, Isabela. To change a person's heart, one has to lead by example.
Isabela: Huh. That makes sense. I can respect that.
Sebastian: I grew weary of the strings of nameless lovers and the nights full of mindless pleasure. You will, too.
Isabela: (Gasps) That's the cruelest thing anyone's ever said to me!
Isabela: I think I'm going to cry.

He did have a few scenes where he felt kind of like he was green-screened in though... I could do without the big "ELTHINA NOOOOOOO" bit. Reminds me a bit too much of the Darth Vader "NOOOOOOO" at the end of Episode 3.

[SirLysander]

catabuca wrote...

I've seen some pretty awesome differences through my friendmance and rivalmance runs of the same characters.

I've seen a difference in dialogue when romancing Anders as a male Hawke (the Karl discussion).

I've seen a difference in dialogue when romancing Fenris as a male Hawke (the 'does it bother you it was with another man' discussion).

Hmmm, yeah, a lack of difference between the romances -- nope, I'm afraid I'm just not seeing that.

And while your Foreign Office example is all very funny, saying the 2 heart options essentially ask Anders into your bed is exaggerating. I used one of the heart options in a game where I was romancing Fenris, and Anders didn't make one romantic move toward me after that point because I didn't pursue any heart icons after that one. What's more, the option I chose was the 'It's unexpected' option, which had Hawke say something along the lines of "It's not like I want you to stop" -- which in that run I interpreted as Hawke being a vain bugger who liked to know people found him attractive, even if he wasn't attracted to them.

The imagination is a powerful and wonderful thing.

The friend-romance versus rival-romance differences are a good thing; but they happen that way regardless of Hawke's gender.   The Anders and Fenris lines (which are rather short segues that are not later revisited) are different in one respect: more information regarding Anders' background is revealed through a male-Hawke romance that is unapproachable any other way other than through the male-Hawke romance, and which leads me to the theory that this was intentional (that Anders primary romance programming is directed at a male Hawke).  Fenris, on the other hand, appears to have this: Compare  (male) to  (female)  - it appears a small handfull of lines by the VO is changed, but nothing more.  Hawke asks, Fenris answers, and the next sentence is back on the common (genderless) script.

When I hit the three-option dialog from Anders (albeit using a female-Hawke) I immediately thought of that particular episode and that particular scene in Yes, Prime Minister (one of the better episodes, in my opinion), and was only reinforced by seeing the Penny Arcade strip regarding it (I tried to find a link to it for the post above, but, alas, was unable then and still haven't found it).  It appears the only way to avoid the problem is to choose an aggressive response before this decision would pop, forestaling it.

I didn't see the "second positive" in Anders' trifecta  as being made for a vain Hawke - at least, at the point where Anders askes "Does this make you uncomfortable?"  I was expecting - whether male OR female - to have a "No, and you are welcome to continue" enter-romance option, "No, not uncomfortable, but rather awkward" (answering the question, but a polite decline of the offer) soft-reject option, and a "Yes, you abomination" hard-reject option.  After all, they did this Zevran in Origins.

If anything, I might have misspoke - it's not so much lazy programming, as cheaper from EA/Bioware's respect, to have one (or two, counting the rival-mance as a separate set) set(s) of relationship code to debug (or not, lol) than muti-conditional coding.

(Edit: Corrected a misspelling) 

Modifié par SirLysander, 06 avril 2011 - 06:13 .