352 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

The friend-romance versus rival-romance differences are a good thing; but they happen that way regardless of Hawke's gender. The Anders and Fenris lines (which are rather short segues that are not later revisited) are different in one respect: more information regarding Anders' background is revealed through a male-Hawke romance that is unapproachable any other way other than through the male-Hawke romance, and which leads me to the theory that this was intentional (that Anders primary romance programming is directed at a male Hawke).

I don't think Anders telling a male Hawke about Karl means that he was meant to be primarily a LI for men, I think it means the writers heard a ton of kvetching for things like Zevran expressing a preference for women to a male Warden and admitting that he and Taliesen were lovers. There are a lot of women who aren't comfortable romancing a man who is openly into other men, so they avoided it by cutting the reveal about Karl completely if you're playing a female.

And I, for the record, still hate that they did.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 06 avril 2011 - 06:23 .

[Goldens]

Victorita9 wrote...
Or maybe someone romanced anders, merrill or feneris as a male ot female hawke and afterwards has a hard time imagining them with  a different gender hawke. Or not even able to romance them in a different gender?

What is your preference?

My preference is just that each playthrough's world is consistent internally.  I don't care if characters (including NPCs) differ from one playthrough to the next, as long as their differences depend on my choices.

My diplomatic Hawke likes men and my snark Hawke likes anyone who looks good at the time.  Wouldn't it be odd if an NPC like Anders complained about Hawke's changing preferences in different playthroughs?  

[rak72]

errant_knight wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I rather liked Sebastion. He has a temper but doesn't blow up building, murder his sister, constantly talk about how magic ruins everything, kill an innocent mage because she's frightened of him, or **** on Merrill while Merithari's body is still warm.

He says one thing I object to - the conversation where he suggests to Fenris they turn in the apostates - and I think that's a slip up on the writer's side. At no time previous to that does he show hostility to apostates or suggest that he thinks they should all be locked up.

He is the only male love interest I would ever consider romancing.

I agree completely! We haven't done that much lately. I'm going to take a minute to appreciate the moment.

Add me to those who agree completly with this

[Paraxial]

rak72 wrote...

Add me to those who agree completly with this

Yeah, reasonable people tend to get my vote in most situations.

[rak72]

errant_knight wrote...

erilben wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

LOL, okay....
Regarding 'The Calling' and DG's statements... I haven't read the books and I kind of stopped paying attention to what DG said on the forums once he said that Alistair was 20 or 21. I find that gamebreakingly hard to believe, so I don't, be it fact ot not.  I go with closer to the toolset age.

How is Alistair being 32 years old more believable?

He doesn't look or sound anything like 20 to me. Do you think he does?

That aside, I think his story if far more poingnant if he's older.

I like to think of him as older as well - I play him & my warden to be around 26ish.  At 20, I think, "Oh you are 20, lived in a monistary all of your life and a virgin - I'll allert the media".  If  he's older, my reaction is more like the, "You're HOW old & still a virgin?"

[halokitty]

In my humble opinion, the only male character in the game I would ever even consider romancing is Varric, were he available. He's got charisma, style, smarts, a heart of gold, and a sexy sexy crossbow. Oh, and he isn't bat guano crazy! What's not to love?

[SirLysander]

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't think Anders telling a male Hawke about Karl means that he was meant to be primarily a LI for men, I think it means the writers heard a ton of kvetching for things like Zevran expressing a preference for women to a male Warden and admitting that he and Taliesen were lovers. There are a lot of women who aren't comfortable romancing a man who is openly into other men, so they avoided it by cutting the reveal about Karl completely if you're playing a female.

And I, for the record, still hate that they did.

Perhaps.  The bolded portion is... a bit out of my direct experience.  LOL

Also, I think my wording might have gotten too convoluted (and possibly away from me); by "that Anders' primary romance programming is directed at a male Hawke" isn't so much whether Anders himself is supposed to be primarily a male-oriented LI, but that this male-oriented programming was developed first, and the female-oriented programming was created by using the male-oriented one as a template and pruning as needed ("Hmm, he's discussing Karl here... that's not necessary *delete*delete* ... Better!") but not adding anything.

[SirLysander]

rak72 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I rather liked Sebastion. He has a temper but doesn't blow up building, murder his sister, constantly talk about how magic ruins everything, kill an innocent mage because she's frightened of him, or **** on Merrill while Merithari's body is still warm.

He says one thing I object to - the conversation where he suggests to Fenris they turn in the apostates - and I think that's a slip up on the writer's side. At no time previous to that does he show hostility to apostates or suggest that he thinks they should all be locked up.

He is the only male love interest I would ever consider romancing.

I agree completely! We haven't done that much lately. I'm going to take a minute to appreciate the moment.

Add me to those who agree completly with this

I'd consider it for female-Hawke - once the fix the blighted bug! lol

[MegaBadExample]

Making everybody bisexual...was weird and unnatural...*shivers*

[halokitty]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Making everybody bisexual...was weird and unnatural...*shivers*

You know, I said almost the same thing about Mass Effect 2:  Making everybody heterosexual...was weird and unnatural...*shudder*

Seriously though, "weird and unnatural"?  Really?  Other than Isabella's already well-established laissez faire attitude towards sex did you even notice the other character's bissexuality?  Fenris is only bi if you approach him with flirt options, ditto for Merrill.  And if you tell Anders no he leaves you alone the rest of the game. 

I seriously don't understand why this is even an issue with folks.  The way it's being discussed, resolutely heterosexual men are breaking down in tears, clutching their controllers and fainting dead away at the meer mention of gays and lesbians existing in other player's game experiences. 

Modifié par halokitty, 06 avril 2011 - 09:21 .

[ejoslin]

Hah, I read this thread and see lots of "<<Favorite LI>> really comes off as straight." "No, no. <<Favorite LI>> is definitely gay!" "I can see <<Favorite LI>> as bisexual, but this other one is <<gay/straight/pan/bi>>."

I think they managed to make all four of the LIs convincing romance partners no matter what Hawke's gender.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 avril 2011 - 09:43 .

[Masako52]

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't think Anders telling a male Hawke about Karl means that he was meant to be primarily a LI for men, I think it means the writers heard a ton of kvetching for things like Zevran expressing a preference for women to a male Warden and admitting that he and Taliesen were lovers. There are a lot of women who aren't comfortable romancing a man who is openly into other men, so they avoided it by cutting the reveal about Karl completely if you're playing a female.

And I, for the record, still hate that they did.

Hang on, were Zevran and Taliesen canonically lovers in DA:O? I was a little miffed when Zevran said he preferred women - I mean, I appreciated that he was bisexual and it wouldn't have bothered me if not for this implication that Zevran is just a sex fiend and so will "resort" to men. I don't remember Zevran ever saying that he and Taliesen were lovers, though?

I also feel cheated that Anders will only admit that Karl was his lover if you play as a male. I get it in the sense that it could be Anders opening up to M!Hawke that he's into dudes (though it seems like a funny time to start hitting on him), but the fact that he can't confide about that with F!Hawke? Seemed a little cheap to me. I don't usually play straight relationships anyway, but it seems like a silly thing to not mention.

Then again, I think DA2 really dropped the ball in not giving us the option to initiate conversations like in DA:O. Maybe Anders wouldn't have needed to bring it up right away, but through further conversation and clicking the right options maybe he would tell F!Hawke that. I really liked DA2's Companions and I would've loved the conversation options - not just for romance purposes, but just for getting to know them better.


.

[ejoslin]

Masako52 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't think Anders telling a male Hawke about Karl means that he was meant to be primarily a LI for men, I think it means the writers heard a ton of kvetching for things like Zevran expressing a preference for women to a male Warden and admitting that he and Taliesen were lovers. There are a lot of women who aren't comfortable romancing a man who is openly into other men, so they avoided it by cutting the reveal about Karl completely if you're playing a female.

And I, for the record, still hate that they did.

Hang on, were Zevran and Taliesen canonically lovers in DA:O? I was a little miffed when Zevran said he preferred women - I mean, I appreciated that he was bisexual and it wouldn't have bothered me if not for this implication that Zevran is just a sex fiend and so will "resort" to men. I don't remember Zevran ever saying that he and Taliesen were lovers, though?

I also feel cheated that Anders will only admit that Karl was his lover if you play as a male. I get it in the sense that it could be Anders opening up to M!Hawke that he's into dudes (though it seems like a funny time to start hitting on him), but the fact that he can't confide about that with F!Hawke? Seemed a little cheap to me. I don't usually play straight relationships anyway, but it seems like a silly thing to not mention.

Then again, I think DA2 really dropped the ball in not giving us the option to initiate conversations like in DA:O. Maybe Anders wouldn't have needed to bring it up right away, but through further conversation and clicking the right options maybe he would tell F!Hawke that. I really liked DA2's Companions and I would've loved the conversation options - not just for romance purposes, but just for getting to know them better.

Zevran and Taliesen were lovers.  There's only one circumstance where you hear about it, though.  He has to leave the fight with Taliesen (so romanced with approval between 26 - 70 with a certain dialog choice not selected).  He will state before leaving that he and Taliesen were friends and more, and if you question him about leaving the fight later, he will say it again and in context it's obvious what he means, and script notes confirm he meant that he and Taliesen were lovers.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 avril 2011 - 10:05 .

[Paraxial]

ejoslin wrote...

Hah, I read this thread and see lots of "<<Favorite LI>> really comes off as straight." "No, no. <<Favorite LI>> is definitely gay!" "I can see <<Favorite LI>> as bisexual, but this other one is <<gay/straight/pan/bi>>."

I think they managed to make all four of the LIs convincing romance partners no matter what Hawke's gender.

NO THEY WERE DESIGNED FOR ME AND EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID

[catabuca]

ejoslin wrote...

Hah, I read this thread and see lots of "<<Favorite LI>> really comes off as straight." "No, no. <<Favorite LI>> is definitely gay!" "I can see <<Favorite LI>> as bisexual, but this other one is <<gay/straight/pan/bi>>."

I think they managed to make all four of the LIs convincing romance partners no matter what Hawke's gender.

Yep. Seems like it was a success to me.

We all appear to be able to play the game while viewing the characters as we think makes best sense ... and we're being remarkably mature about being able to cope with the fact other people might see them differently. Imagine that!

The endless posts in the character fan threads attests to the fact there is a heck of a lot to love about these characters, and there is much more to the discussions in there than romance. The Anders thread in particular always has great debate about his plot. These characters ARE deep, and in fact it doesn't seem to matter one little bit that they don't wear signs around their necks that announce their sexuality in case someone, somewhere, won't be able to relate to them unless they do.

[Thiefy]

oh this thread again...
i dont remember what page i left off talking to people since i was in a rush to get to work, but i dont know if i came off the wrong way or articulated myself properly last time since there seemed to be some misunderstandings.

anyway, long and the short of it is since all the LIs are bisexual, they ought to just come out and say they are all bisexual instead of saying well they are possibly gay/straight/bi depending on your gender.

and i know a lot of people are going to disagree with that but i dont think they should have to hide a part of a character to make them more likable for certain groups of people.

[Paraxial]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
and i know a lot of people are going to disagree with that.

They're going to disagree because this thread isn't about that.

[Thiefy]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
and i know a lot of people are going to disagree with that.

They're going to disagree because this thread isn't about that.

and here i thought they would just tell me i was off topic instead.

[Paraxial]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

and here i thought they would just tell me i was off topic instead.

Think of it as quality control. Or torch and burn, whatever works.

[SirLysander]

SirLysander wrote...
...

When I hit the three-option dialog from Anders (albeit using a female-Hawke) I immediately thought of that particular episode and that particular scene in Yes, Prime Minister (one of the better episodes, in my opinion), and was only reinforced by seeing the Penny Arcade strip regarding it (I tried to find a link to it for the post above, but, alas, was unable then and still haven't found it).  It appears the only way to avoid the problem is to choose an aggressive response before this decision would pop, forestaling it.

...

I should keep the webcomics I read straight; I found the strip I was looking for - on Control-Alt-Delete: http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110314 .

[rvayda141]

My initial playthrough I romanced Merrill with a femhawke, and i watched the dudehawke scene on youtube out of curiosity. When dudehawke picks the charming option in the first dialogue, saying "you're adorable when you ramble" he sounds REALLY creepy, like he has a habit of watching her ramble through her bedroom window or something

[LadyRenegade]

i can agree to this topic to an extent. Isabella i can see perfectly going for men and women, same with anders. but then merrill and fenris, i was like I can't see them being bi. but the beauty of the game is, u can do w.e you want lol so even if they are bi, who cares? its your game and story, so you can romance who you want in it

[_Somebody]

rvayda141 wrote...

My initial playthrough I romanced Merrill with a femhawke, and i watched the dudehawke scene on youtube out of curiosity. When dudehawke picks the charming option in the first dialogue, saying "you're adorable when you ramble" he sounds REALLY creepy, like he has a habit of watching her ramble through her bedroom window or something

Yeah, I agree. I prefer malehawke with merrill, but I never pick that line. He sounds like a real creeper.

[Shacary]

OMG Sir Lysander I dont think I've laughed so hard... I gotta try the male hawke now to experience that conversation LOL , my first PT i was one but i totally missed that conversation.... I might have chosen the red fist tho. lol

[Game_Fan_85]

catabuca wrote...

Agree with everything but this. It's a dreadful idea. If some people seriously have a problem being hit on in the game the problem lies with them. A game is an exploration, of many things, and to suggest we should define beforehand what orientation Hawke should be is ridiculous. We define it in our own heads, that should be enough.

Otherwise, for one, from a purely gameplay perspective, it closes off a section of content to players when they choose one option over another. It creates the situation of the game 'toggling' content that so many people dislike. From a social standpoint, it suggests that a) one gets to choose their sexuality; and that it's okay to create a system that hides content that some might find icky or uncomfortable. I'm an atheist, but I don't ask for a toggle to remove all mentions of religion in the game because I don't like Hawke expressing any kind of belief in the Maker.

Why try to complicate matters, when you've said yourself the game does it perfectly well already?

(also, as a side note, I got Isabela to 100% friendship on my first run and didn't flirt with her once. Likewise, I have Anders at 100% friendship by the end of act 1 while pursuing a romance with Fenris and not pursuing Anders in any way.)

I also agree with your answer 100%, but it could just add a little bit more realism to your character if you had something like that.  I agree that if people have a problem with it, don't play it, but that would be cutting off a great deal of the gaming public and I am sure the overlords at EA would not like that.  It would be a crime for the backlash ("BioWare ignoring straight male gamers"? SERIOUSLY?) to make BioWare change it's wonderful ways.  I saw something on some random site about the 3DS problems that was making fun of Nintendo's response to compaints that said "dont make us angry or we'll pull a BioWare and Mario and Luigi will be ****g in the next Mario game" Ugh, morons.

Hey, I enjoyed flirting with Isabela in my second playthrough so I hope you got that I was joking about being hit on by her, I have no problem with that whatsoever.  But it really annoyed me when in the epilogue, Varric said "everyone parted ways with Hawke, except ISABELA"  That made me say out loud "what?!". First time around, Isabela never returned with the book and Anders stayed with Hawke.  Second time she returned (Hawke had sex with her once) and she asked me to be crew on her ship to which I replied "not without Anders" so it made no sense to me.  Third time she didn't get her boat, got turned down for sex and Anders stayed with me, as it should be.

Continuing my 4th playthrough now, want ot try a "rivalmance" with Anders.  I didn't even think it'd be possible until I saw a clip on youtube.